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OfflineBioRaven
Stranger
Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 2
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Need help experimenting with increasing potency
    #276023 - 03/21/01 10:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

As already stated, I have been studying enviromental chemistry, and I believe that controlling the amount of multicarbonic-polysaccridic protiens, you can stimulate the synthesis of Psilocybin and Psilocin. MC-PS Protiens are found in a number of grains, and members of the Solenace? family (i.e. potatoes). I think that by testing each prospective substrate individually, and combining them in a certain mixture can create a superior quality mushroom. I do, however, require a lot more research into just what grains contain the right MC-PSses and in the right ammounts, as well as the natural levels of synthesis for a species. (I do believe that P. cubenesis will be the easiest to work with, as it has a higher 'willingness' to go through mycomethylsynthesis (the action of a fungus to produce methyl-amino acids, it is similar to photosynthesis, only requires the energy of a natural catalyst in the form of an acid released by certain golgic secretions of the mycol body). Also, by controlling the conditions of the reaction (i.e. growing temperature and humidity), you can further increase the rate of reaction. I predict you can increase the relative concentration of methyl-amino acids from anywhere from 4-50%! If you are interested at all, here is a brief equation that outlines the synthesis of Psilocybin:

MC-PC Protiens + Water + Oxygen --mycomethylsynthesis--> 3-[2-(dimethylamino)ethyl]-1H-indo-4ol dihydrogen phosphate ester (psilocybin) + Carbon Dioxide + cellulose (simple sugar)

I do actually believe there is a lot of money to be made from all of this. It is possible to engineer the perfect substrate and market it to growers worldwide. It can be sold as a soil additive for agriculture, or as a substrate for fungii. It could even be liquidized to form a highly nutrient agar solution. Naturally, I would only ask 10% of the profits, because it would be my theory (in other words - finder's fee).

If you are at all interested, please send me your Resume, or provide me some detailed information. This is not something I would trust with just anyone.

Thanx for your interest!

-R



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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Need help experimenting with increasing potency [Re: BioRaven]
    #276321 - 03/21/01 11:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

BioRaven I have done a lot of reading on how psilocybin is produced in fungi, and how it can be overproduced to make a more potent mushroom. I agree with you 100% that creating "the perfect substrate" is possible and will most definatly produce more psilocybin. I don't know if you have read this post I put up a recently, but it has some good information in it about nutrient limitation. I however am in a similar situation that you are, I can't test my theories.

Edited by Humidity on 03/21/01 11:54 PM.



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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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OfflineAzure
old hand
Registered: 01/01/99
Posts: 469
Loc: California, USA
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Need help experimenting with increasing potency [Re: BioRaven]
    #276407 - 03/22/01 03:18 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well, to start off, you're limiting your resources by demanding a resume. Don't let society brainwash you into believing the scientists "on top of the world" have impressive resumes. Einstein's teacher thought he wasn't fit for school... Hicks on a farm may have more practical knowledge than a Harvard Graduate student with all the academic knowledge in the world..I don't mean to be condescending, that's not my intention. It's just something you learn as you observe human behavior. I also don't mean to be the devil's advocate, but you can produce spawn indoors hidden and then fruit them outdoors if you have the right temperatures. Ps. cubes=weeds. If you have primordia on the cakes, just place the cakes under a bush of some sort in the shade and cover it completely with vermiculite.
Anyways, fungi don't produce cellulose. Instead, they produce chitin. This is one of the reasons why they're in an entirely different kingdom than the planties. If you don't believe me, please look it up.
Although the psilocybin concentration may increase by adding a growth factor, I don't see why you'd want to do this. You can greatly increase the potency of mushrooms by simply lowering the temperature several degrees below the optimal temperature.
Also, when grown in less than optimal temperatures, the rate of decomposition of Psilocybin decreases. If you were to merely figure out what optimal substrate produces the highest psilocybin content without droping the temperature, you wouldn't be achieving the maximum potential concentration of psilocybin.
Psilocybin +heat+O2--->psilocin
True, you don't get high off of Psilocybin, but rather psilocin. Remeber that psilocin decomposes a lot quicker than psilocybin. Also, when you consume psilocin, it decomposes to something else(hell if I give a shit about chemistry). In short, one way to maximize the amount of psilocin in your body from the least amount of mushroom tissue is by obtaining the highest amount of psilocybin possible.




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OfflineBioRaven
Stranger
Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 2
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Need help experimenting with increasing potency [Re: Azure]
    #276701 - 03/22/01 04:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I was more refering to looking at a resume to see what kind of a person you might be. I really need to trust someone in order to work with this. Also, I do have to point out that 60% of the cytoplasm is made of cellulose, and chitin is made from cellulose. (all organic life produces cellulose, or uses it in some way). Maybe it's time I let you in on my background: my mother has her master's in horticulture. I have poured through many of her textbooks, and done extensive studies into both plant biology and fungal biology.

Also, you are correct, psilocin is the one that fucks you up, however, it is not very stable. Psilocybin is nice and stable, and metabolizes easily thanks to the phosphate. Anyway, i don't know how familiar you are with biochemistry, but psilocybin reacts with hemoglobin to produce psilocin (indo-ethylides have protected oxygen bonds), which is nifty because it gets delivered to your brain a lot faster if the psilocin is carried in your red blood cells. here is what psilocybin looks like (unless it gets fucked up by the font):

h h h
\ | /
o o o
\ | /
p h
| |
o h h h-c-n-h
| \/ |
c c--------c-h
// \ / |
h-c c--------c-h h-c-h
| \\ / |
h-c c / h
\\ / \ /
c n
| |
h h

Anyway, we shouldn't debate the chemistry of things too much. What is important is that I think you can drastically stimulate the production of psilocybin (and lowering the temperature was one of the things that would be definate.) I want to look at the perfect growing medium, and conditions that will allow everything to function perfectly.

Can you share with me some of your growing experiences, and your favoured method?

-R



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Anonymous

Re: Need help experimenting with increasing potency
    #276878 - 03/22/01 07:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

BioRaven, how exactly is this process similar to Photosynthesis? By the way, I once had an hour argument with a PhD in Environmental Horticulture, my professor at the time over Alkaloids. He was claiming that a non nitrogenous compound was an Alkaloid. You can probably guess which compound that was. So who cares what your mother has her degree in. I got one to, but never once in earning that degree did I ever have a professor teach me anything real about any schedule 1 substance. You could probably search every known journal in existence and never come across a study like the one you want to do. Why because you need a scedule one permit to prove it!!!!!!! That's the nature of the beast. Fax you a resume, Fax your schedule 1 permit request to the DEA, FDA, and every other agency that you think might be interested in any serious experiment.
P.S. If you want to know why Marijuana is illegal read the Emperor Wears No Clothes, by Jack Herer; If you want to know why Psilocybin Mushrooms are illegal, JUST EAT THEM!!!!!!

Edited by Teonan on 03/22/01 08:20 PM.



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OfflineAzure
old hand
Registered: 01/01/99
Posts: 469
Loc: California, USA
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Need help experimenting with increasing potency [Re: BioRaven]
    #277050 - 03/22/01 11:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

BioRav,
I'm sort of confused. I don't really understand how you could demand 10% profits from figuring out the optimal substrate to produce concentrated psilocybin. It's sort of a lost cause, seeing how psilocybin, psilocin, and all the other goodies are schedule 1. Also, you have to remeber that the reason we use nutrified agar is for strain isolation and storage. That is, we want to grow the fungus in an optimal solution designed for optimal mycelial growth. Adding misc. chemicals that stimulate psilocybin production wouldn't necessarily aid in creating an optimal substrate for mycelium production. And maybe you thought of extracting psilocybin from this mixture directly. But if you wanted maximum psilocybin/gram, you'd ultimately have to go to the fruit body. Mycelium production in P. cubensis requires a higher temp than fruit body formation. FYI, I'm the hick (not literally). That's my resume.





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Offlinegreymule
enthusiast
Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 135
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Need help experimenting with increasing potency [Re: Azure]
    #282185 - 03/30/01 12:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

My friend has heard that harmine from syrian rue seeds will double the effects of kabooms. Anyone try growing with syrian rue seeds or syrian rue seed meal in the substrate?



--------------------
Them not busy bein' born are busy dyin'.


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InvisibleInsomnia
addict
Registered: 07/18/00
Posts: 345
Re: Need help experimenting with increasing potency [Re: greymule]
    #282249 - 03/30/01 02:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've wondered about that, also. But the Syrian Rue is the beta carboline, whereas Phalaris grass has the goodness in it.



I choked Linda Lovelace!

Edited by Insomnia on 03/30/01 02:08 PM.



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"If you believe in things you do not understand, you will suffer." ? Stevie Wonder


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Offlinescribbles
member
Registered: 09/23/00
Posts: 73
Loc: Southeast US
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: Need help experimenting with increasing potency [Re: Insomnia]
    #284772 - 04/03/01 12:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Be careful with syrian rue. MAOIs and all that shit mixed will kill you.

-scribbles
Long Days and Pleasant Nights.


--------------------
-scribbles
Long Days and Pleasant Nights.
Check out the Church of the Universe @ www.iamm.com


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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