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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27659879 - 02/15/22 12:10 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Russian Prime Minister says Moscow is willing to negotiate to avert crisis



...... what a fucking joke.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27660120 - 02/15/22 03:38 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

There never was a crisis though.

Biden could say Russia is about to send special force unicorns into Kiev, and when it doesn’t happen the media will congratulate Biden for stopping the Putin unicorns.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27660401 - 02/15/22 07:11 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
There never was a crisis though.





I know, that's why it's such an obnoxious load of horse shit, from both sides, particularly from Russia for being such a belligerent pig of a government

as well also from the U.S. and the U.K. governments in using the media to announce the 'Russian Invasion' to somehow thwart Russia's 'plans'.

It's a fucking joke but I aint laughin.

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27660889 - 02/16/22 05:54 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

It reminds me of Krushchev sending nuclear missiles to Cuba so he could withdraw them in return for concessions.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27660955 - 02/16/22 07:15 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

He moved them there because it was the only way to get the US to remove missiles from Turkey. Being strategic with their nuclear arsenal was the only reason the Soviets lasted as long as they did.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27660991 - 02/16/22 07:57 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

The timeline is right. I always was taught that Krushchev removed the missiles to get JFK's pledge that we would never invade Cuba. Maybe Krushchev got two for one.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27662312 - 02/17/22 08:56 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

But JFK did invade Cuba lol


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27662517 - 02/17/22 11:34 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

LOL?
You have your timeline mixed up.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27662547 - 02/17/22 12:02 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Of course the bay of pigs was before the missile crisis, I’m just pointing out when and where the world is supposed to take the US at its word.

Promising not to invade Cuba? Absolutely.
Promising not to expand NATO? Absolutely not.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27662561 - 02/17/22 12:19 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I think we already flogged a dead horse with who did and who didn't promise not to expand NATO.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27670876 - 02/23/22 08:42 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Hey everyone, I'm back to see what the discussion is about Ukraine.

Though I haven't gotten there yet (hopefully I will soon if someone's started something on it), I thought I'd respond to the posts I'm reading.

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
We created NATO on the pretext that

1) it was a bulwark against Soviet expansion
2) we would ourselves not expand NATO

The first pretext doesn’t exist anymore, and we broke the second one almost immediately.



I remember the first one. I second one is highly debatable.



No, The Ecstatic is correct about the second one.  Der Spiegel just released evidence of this.

If you can't read Der Spiegel, RT summarized it here.


Edit:  Yes, I realize it wasn't a written promise, but a verbal promise nonetheless.  Russia learned its lesson that it can't trust the U.S.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (02/23/22 09:11 PM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27670908 - 02/23/22 09:06 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
It reminds me of Krushchev sending nuclear missiles to Cuba so he could withdraw them in return for concessions.



Khrushchev sent nuclear missiles to Cuba in response to the US sending them near Russia's border in Turkey.

Edit:  Sorry, I just saw that The Ecstatic beat me to it. 


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (02/23/22 09:10 PM)

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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27671522 - 02/24/22 10:54 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27672271 - 02/24/22 08:36 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
It reminds me of Krushchev sending nuclear missiles to Cuba so he could withdraw them in return for concessions.



Khrushchev sent nuclear missiles to Cuba in response to the US sending them near Russia's border in Turkey.

Edit:  Sorry, I just saw that The Ecstatic beat me to it. 




https://janetpanic.com/why-did-nikita-khrushchev-want-president-kennedy-to-remove-missiles-from-turkey/#:~:text=A%20Deal%20Ends%20the%20Standoff%20During%20t

I was willing to accept The Ecstatic's explanation that removing missiles from Turkey was part of the explanation, but it was explained for decades as an action to get JFK to pledge not to invade Cuba. You have shown no evidence that I'm wrong. This source supports what I said.
"Cuba was saved from U.S. invasion, which was always Moscow's principal strategic goal".


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27672353 - 02/24/22 09:46 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

And you have shown no evidence that Russia would have put its missiles in Cuba if the US hadn't put its missiles in Turkey first.

Of course, I agree with you that Khrushchev withdrew the missiles in return for concessions that included Cuban non-aggression.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27672600 - 02/25/22 04:13 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

That's fine except nobody was arguing about what you said in the first sentence, so there was no motive to supply evidence. When The Ecstatic mentioned the missiles in Turkey I responded that the timeline made sense for his argument and maybe Kruschev achieved two objectives.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27672658 - 02/25/22 06:01 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
What they're saying is that Keev is the Ukrainian pronunciation and the two syllable Kiev is the Russian one.
But now that I've been made aware of this there seems to be a certain nuance with the way they say it, that isn't exactly translatable to Americans. Kinda of the way we can't pronounce Sartre the way the French do. I can't remember what part of Eastern Europe you're from, but your take on this is probably more accurate than mine.




LOL sorry, I just realized I was talking to you and not Kryptos. He's from Eastern Europe.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27672848 - 02/25/22 09:55 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I don't have much good input on pronunciation. I can speak Russian to someone that speaks Ukrainian and we can have a conversation without knowing the others' language.

To me, Ukrainian sounds like bastardized Russian with the occasional mispronunciation.

The Russian pronunciation of Kiev is two syllables, Ki-yef. The fact that the spelling has become Kyiv in a lot of English publications makes me think the true Ukrainian pronunciation is closer to Keev, or maybe Kyeev, in one syllable.

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Kryptos]
    #27672859 - 02/25/22 10:04 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I think it comes down to people speaking different languages, particularly their native language, do things with their mouth and tongue that other people can't exactly duplicate the sound of even when they try to say it like the native speaker. Lately I've been reading Keev and Kyeev to try to phoeneticize it for us.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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