Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomMan Mycology
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,847
Last seen: 1 hour, 42 minutes
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: RedRH]
    #27635097 - 01/27/22 12:05 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Nah, NATO's future depends entirely on the US. We are the least reliable member of NATO right now, and Germany is simply responding pragmatically. They know that the US cannot be relied upon past 2024, and therefore they cannot simply slam the door on Russian gas.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 6 hours, 5 minutes
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: RedRH]
    #27635699 - 01/27/22 09:55 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RedRH said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:

And besides their ICBM arsenal, they have over 15,000 tanks. China is second with over 9,000. The U.S. has 6,000.




Good luck with getting all those tanks on shore here to attack us;)



Quote:

Brian Jones said:
That's a revelation. We have 5,500 nuclear warheads. No one is going to attack us here. The point was that Russia and China can do what they want on their side of the world, and ultimately, we can't stop them.




We could stop them but the price would be massive. Germany is the key to determining if NATO will be around much longer if they do not get on board with sanctions, in my opinion. Now that they rely on Russian oil and natural gas due to the completion of the Russian pipeline, they have leverage over Germany. If Germany comes to it's senses and unifies with NATO, then NATO survives. If not, NATO will be a toothless mutt and the US should




Yes, I said earlier we probably only have Canada and Britain with us in strong opposition if Russia invades Ukraine. Germany has energy dependence on Russia, and Eastern Europe is almost completely energy dependent on them. That about forces them into neutrality. Biden is talking about siphoning anti-tank missiles and other weapons to Ukraine through Baltic States like Lithuania and Estonia. That would be dangerous to the small states; it would motivate Russia to reabsorb them back into the empire for their insolence, and the argument could be made that it gives him a legitimate reason to do it.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 35 minutes, 41 seconds
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27635984 - 01/28/22 07:21 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

We created NATO on the pretext that

1) it was a bulwark against Soviet expansion
2) we would ourselves not expand NATO

The first pretext doesn’t exist anymore, and we broke the second one almost immediately.

So what is NATO if not just a tool for western imperialism? Why does anyone bother defending it or worrying about its legitimacy? It is entirely illegitimate.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 6 hours, 5 minutes
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27636053 - 01/28/22 08:55 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I remember the first one. I second one is highly debatable.

I have no problem with your, NATO is a tool for Western imperialism; and a functional way to keep our little Euro-allies with us.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Radicalised
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 6,234
Loc: Wide Bay Orstralia
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27636335 - 01/28/22 01:34 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Yet with Ukraine not yet able to join NATO Russia negotiates down the barrel of a gun. Who's the aggressor?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 35 minutes, 41 seconds
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27638949 - 01/30/22 07:42 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Ukraine now openly accusing the US of spreading disinformation

https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/1487537343481499660?s=21


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleModularMind
M.P.F.
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 7,902
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27638956 - 01/30/22 07:48 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Saw someone reference this as being “for the dead and wounded”
Seemed suspicious.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 35 minutes, 41 seconds
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27639328 - 01/31/22 07:51 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I remember the first one. I second one is highly debatable.

I have no problem with your, NATO is a tool for Western imperialism; and a functional way to keep our little Euro-allies with us.




Not sure what you mean. We absolutely made that promise during negotiations for German reunification.

Quote:

In early February 1990, U.S. leaders made the Soviets an offer. According to transcripts of meetings in Moscow on Feb. 9, then-Secretary of State James Baker suggested that in exchange for cooperation on Germany, U.S. could make “iron-clad guarantees” that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward.” Less than a week later, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to begin reunification talks. No formal deal was struck, but from all the evidence, the quid pro quo was clear: Gorbachev acceded to Germany’s western alignment and the U.S. would limit NATO’s expansion.








https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 6 hours, 5 minutes
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27639418 - 01/31/22 09:38 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

That's an op-ed. A lot of other sources do not agree.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 35 minutes, 41 seconds
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27639820 - 01/31/22 03:40 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

So you think the LA Times forged transcripts from James Baker?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,847
Last seen: 1 hour, 42 minutes
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27639986 - 01/31/22 05:56 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

The transcript you linked specifically said: no formal deal was struck.

I guess this was before it was safe to assume that the US would go back on its word within four years.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Radicalised
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 6,234
Loc: Wide Bay Orstralia
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Kryptos]
    #27640090 - 01/31/22 07:42 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Someone should remind Putin that Russia isn’t the only nation capable of supplying LNG before he shoots himself and Ukraine in the foot.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,847
Last seen: 1 hour, 42 minutes
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27640162 - 01/31/22 08:52 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

He's not gonna invade Ukraine, he's just doing the nation-state equivalent of abusive gaslighting.

I think that's what Zelensky was saying earlier, too. Talk of imminent war does nothing but play into Putin's hands, by arousing national discontent. Then the invasion is no longer necessary. Just a nationalist isolationist movement that successfully alienates the west, and drives Ukraine back into Putin's bear hug.

Sorta like Poland. Or Crimea.

This war will be entirely psychological. The fact that the US's default foreign policy response is to send the marines only helps, because that tends to raise a few pulses after 20 years of very public drone strikes in the Middle East.

Putin is browbeating the populace into accepting his domination, using the potential threat of US drone strikes, by playing up an imaginary war that will never actually happen.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 35 minutes, 41 seconds
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27640248 - 01/31/22 10:25 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
The transcript you linked specifically said: no formal deal was struck.

I guess this was before it was safe to assume that the US would go back on its word within four years.




Of course. But whether or not we kept our word isn’t the issue (it’s clear we didn’t). The promise was made, broken or not.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 6 hours, 5 minutes
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27640726 - 02/01/22 10:51 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

And here is another interpretation.
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/29/1076193616/ukraine-crisis-russia-history-nato-expansion
I don't know the fine points of this issue, but to me a negotiation with Gorbachev has fuck all to do with the situation now with Putin. Gorbachev was more humane and honest than our Western leaders. If Putin isn't a dictator with plans to expand the empire he's 90% of the way there on both counts.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 35 minutes, 41 seconds
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27641924 - 02/02/22 07:05 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

An interpretation from the US government lol.


So when we break our word and expand NATO, it’s :shrug:

But when Putin hypothetically does it, it’s war.

I know it might be hard for some to process this, but Russia isn’t a the juggernaut that the USSR was 60 years ago. They want friendly governments in their sphere of influence as all nations do. Imagine if China teamed up with the Sinaloa cartel because we were “doing dictatorial empire expansion” by telling Mexico to halt Central American refugees, otherwise we’d fuck up their economy. That’s essentially what we’re doing in Ukraine. None of this is about democracy or freedom or some fear of a Russian invasion of Europe. We simply don’t want the EU to be so dependent on Russia for their energy, because then they’d have less reason to do everything we tell them to do.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 6 hours, 5 minutes
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27642222 - 02/02/22 10:48 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

James Baker was having a conversation with Gorbachev. That's all. He had no authority to make a deal, and Bush made no deal. So I'm saying your source (well the source referred to in your op-ed) was bullshit.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 35 minutes, 41 seconds
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27642285 - 02/02/22 11:18 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

How does the Secretary of State not have authority?  Even Trump’s stupid ass was smart enough to realize the US is the prime mover of NATO policy.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 6 hours, 5 minutes
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27642323 - 02/02/22 11:34 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

The Secretary of State only has the authority to make foreign policy on the President's behalf. Bush never signed off on this.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Radicalised
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 6,234
Loc: Wide Bay Orstralia
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
Re: Warfare to disrupt society forthem [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27642559 - 02/02/22 02:24 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I know it might be hard for some to process this, but Russia isn’t a the juggernaut that the USSR was 60 years ago. They want friendly governments in their sphere of influence as all nations do. None of this is about democracy or freedom or some fear of a Russian invasion of Europe. We simply don’t want the EU to be so dependent on Russia for their energy, because then they’d have less reason to do everything we tell them to do.




They want friendly governments??

So Russia ratchets up tensions but it's somehow a plot by the West? Like I know you have good reason to be cynical of NATO but this is a problem created by Russia, not the other way around.

Russia amasses troops on a border and then declares there's nothing to see here it's the U.S./West that is the problem,.. that story is perverted.

Really you have to wonder what could have happened WITHOUT NATO as a deterrent. Probably similar to the expansion of China at the moment, 'reclaiming' nations that don't want to be reclaimed :shrug:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Next >  [ show all ]


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Biological Warfare in the War on Drugs LSDempire 1,398 8 05/19/05 01:48 AM
by LSDempire
* Mexico: Leftist militants strike at Pemex oil line (corporate systems disruption 101)
( 1 2 all )
The_Red_Crayon 4,449 39 07/14/07 07:27 PM
by zorbman
* Hunter Gatherer Societies
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 2,474 33 05/02/03 03:54 PM
by Anonymous
* Understanding the 4th Generation of Warfare. The_Red_Crayon 698 2 09/30/06 04:40 AM
by kotik
* U.S. missionaries plan 'spiritual warfare' when fighting end GringoLoco 894 16 04/19/03 09:33 PM
by falcon
* Class Warfare: Hatred of the wealthy
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
RandalFlagg 9,414 126 11/24/03 02:51 PM
by havatampa
* What have christians contributed to modern society?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
trendalM 5,888 78 03/19/17 04:53 AM
by viktor
* another fact about the little eichmanns...
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Annapurna1 9,527 151 05/05/05 06:57 PM
by Phred

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
2,306 topic views. 0 members, 3 guests and 14 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 15 queries.