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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: worowa]
    #27629873 - 01/23/22 04:56 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

My apologies I just checked the packaging on the Mrs wages pickling lime and it is in fact hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide) I feel like a bit of a fool now

I’ve been calling it by the wrong name but all of my test have been ran using the Mrs wages pickling lime (calcium hydroxide) which is relatively safe with minimal precautions and doesn’t create heat when added to water

As you can tell I’m not a chemist I’ve always mixed up slacked lime with quick lime so I apologize for the confusion and appreciate the correction, could have gotten someone injured over a simple mistake


I recommend against garden lime (calcium carbonate) it’s not aggressive enough to kill bacteria or spores and shouldn’t be used


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

Edited by 7Suns (01/23/22 06:40 PM)

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns]
    #27629887 - 01/23/22 05:06 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Also just an update on the straw logs I spawned using the lime oats at 30 minutes and 1 hr of pressure cooker sterilization, they seem to be taking off like crazy after 1 week of colonization



--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns] * 1
    #27629897 - 01/23/22 05:13 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Another update on the microwave sterilized limed oats for 3 minutes and 30 seconds



Still looks clean after a month so I’m going to inoculate it and test viability

Also ive prepared 12 more jars using lime, 6 were microwaved and the other 6 were pressure cooked for 15 minutes this time


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns]
    #27629958 - 01/23/22 05:51 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

this might also be of interest?
It dates from 2007
don't know why everyone lost interest back then
it went from august to October

antibacterial-grain-soak-experiment

https://mycotopia.net/topic/16436-antibacterial-grain-soak-experiment/?hl=%20salicylic%20%20acid


this page has many videos detailing lime, cold pasteurization.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cold+pasteurization+

Edited by laughingdog (01/23/22 05:55 PM)

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27630009 - 01/23/22 06:25 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
this might also be of interest?
It dates from 2007
don't know why everyone lost interest back then
it went from august to October

antibacterial-grain-soak-experiment

https://mycotopia.net/topic/16436-antibacterial-grain-soak-experiment/?hl=%20salicylic%20%20acid


this page has many videos detailing lime, cold pasteurization.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cold+pasteurization+





The mycotopia link is trash it’s outdated and all speculative stuff using dish soap so it’s not related to this

And the YouTube link is lime pasteurization of substrate which is also unrelated

I’m sterilizing grain spawn using a combination of chemical and short term heat treatments to achieve 100% sterilization


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns]
    #27630021 - 01/23/22 06:35 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

This is a similar link “Speeker” sent me, almost identical

It’s hard to believe that someone else had the same idea after reading the same Wikipedia article about nixtamalization I mean it’s a direct quote how insane is that

OP never followed up with there research unfortunately though

https://mycotopia.net/topic/100921-calcium-soak-grains-anyone-tried-it/


{edit}  it turns out the OP for that link is “Ferather” who is both a member here and the other forum so I’ve shot him a Pm in hopes he will join in on the discussion and we can possibly cross link the two threads

Edited by 7Suns (01/23/22 10:49 PM)

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns]
    #27630571 - 01/24/22 06:23 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Nixtamalization is used to treat corn to make tortillas:)

What you're after is simply to shorten sterilization time.

Toward that end you could possibly also experiment with adding
'jet dry' or Propylene Glycol to see if the mixture penetrates the grain further.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=propylene+glycol+in+drugs&va=b&t=hr&ia=web

At Humble Fungus they do 'no soak- no simmer' grain prep for all the  grain bags they sell - they just over shoot on pasteurization time - 2 1/2 hours. Apparently endospores are no problem then.

Edited by laughingdog (01/24/22 06:27 AM)

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27630730 - 01/24/22 09:15 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Nixtamalization is used to treat corn to make tortillas:)

What you're after is simply to shorten sterilization time.

Toward that end you could possibly also experiment with adding
'jet dry' or Propylene Glycol to see if the mixture penetrates the grain further.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=propylene+glycol+in+drugs&va=b&t=hr&ia=web

At Humble Fungus they do 'no soak- no simmer' grain prep for all the  grain bags they sell - they just over shoot on pasteurization time - 2 1/2 hours. Apparently endospores are no problem then.





Nixtamalization can be used to treat any grain not just corn, also it’s more then just tortillas, it’s also grits, hominy, masa, tamales etc etc there’s quite a lot of uses for it

I want to avoid adding true chemicals to this, although upon further investigation into salicylic acid it seems “organic, natural, safe” and seems to be a good food preservative, antibiotic and antifungal it’s just a matter of testing how inhibitory it is to fungi

lime is a naturally occurring mineral and a byproduct of wood ash making it more appealing as “natural, organic, safe” and seems to be effective eliminating the need for anything else

Pasteurization for 2.5 hrs is the opposite of what I’m trying to accomplish with this, like you said I want to shorten sterilization time as much as possible


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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Offline7SunsS
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Registered: 05/11/14
Posts: 765
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns]
    #27630749 - 01/24/22 09:30 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Ppg (vape liquid lol I knew it sounded familiar) aka polypropylene glycol
Is actually a biostatistic not biocidal

Anything less then 20% concentration will actually feed bacteria, it doesn’t kill bacteria it holds them in stasis because of increased water tension


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns]
    #27631278 - 01/24/22 05:28 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

7Suns said:
...I want to avoid adding true chemicals to this, although upon further investigation into salicylic acid it seems “organic, natural, safe” and seems to be a good food preservative, antibiotic and antifungal it’s just a matter of testing how inhibitory it is to fungi ... 




exactly, if you do choose to experiment with it it is available on amazon, as both skin treatments and as a pure powder.

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InvisibleUnderNose
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27631592 - 01/24/22 10:42 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Hey 7 Suns.. Haha couldn't hold your water any longer:hehehe:

I've got some Nix grains going. Seems ok so far.. Will try update with pics soon, kinda swamped with life stuff at the moment.

Your oyster bags are looking sweet man :thumbup:


--------------------
LAGM 2.022

:dna::dna:

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: UnderNose]
    #27631596 - 01/24/22 10:45 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

UnderNose said:
Hey 7 Suns.. Haha couldn't hold your water any longer:hehehe:

I've got some Nix grains going. Seems ok so far.. Will try update with pics soon, kinda swamped with life stuff at the moment.

Your oyster bags are looking sweet man :thumbup:




Thanks man I’m excited to see your results


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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Invisibleonefunguy
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns]
    #27631778 - 01/25/22 05:40 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------
........all the kids will eat it up if its packaged properly........

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OfflineSingularFusion
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: onefunguy]
    #27631807 - 01/25/22 07:05 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Well these methods are for sure pretty old. Dunno why it never occurred to me it was cold water lime treatment. I guess I never thought that was possible with grains

I am still game for seeing what you guys testing it with various modifications in 2022 can come up with, regardless of the age of the method

I am looking at using hardwood ash as the liming agent personally, but not for the nix of grains, just for quick and dirty pasteurization of outdoor substrate for gourmets, among other methods we are attempting. Figure it should work alright. May try some woodlovers on the lime treatment too, see if I learn anything or see anything special

good stuff fellas, I'll pop back and see how you are getting on down the road


--------------------
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼    🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: SingularFusion]
    #27631817 - 01/25/22 07:23 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nef said:
Well these methods are for sure pretty old. Dunno why it never occurred to me it was cold water lime treatment. I guess I never thought that was possible with grains

I am still game for seeing what you guys testing it with various modifications in 2022 can come up with, regardless of the age of the method

I am looking at using hardwood ash as the liming agent personally, but not for the nix of grains, just for quick and dirty pasteurization of outdoor substrate for gourmets, among other methods we are attempting. Figure it should work alright. May try some woodlovers on the lime treatment too, see if I learn anything or see anything special

good stuff fellas, I'll pop back and see how you are getting on down the road




In theory it’s,

Not an old method, sure it draws upon similar concept but it’s an original concept in this capacity and application

Technically not cold water lime pasteurization I’m actually boiling the grain with lime to quickly hydrate it and allow for the lime to penetrate to the center of of starch, this initial low heat + lime hydration is an incomplete sterilization killing approximately 97% of endospores which is then followed by a short time, high temperature sterilization in the pressure cooker to finish off the remaining 3% and sterilize anything on the bag/jar itself

So I’d call it a hot water lime bath + short sterilization time


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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OfflineSingularFusion
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns]
    #27631941 - 01/25/22 09:51 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

yah sorry man I forgot how the whole thread started, novel ideas, patents and such

didn't mean to sound like it was nothing new eh :popcorn:


--------------------
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼    🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿

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Invisibleonefunguy
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns] * 1
    #27632830 - 01/25/22 08:27 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Hey buddy did you even look at my post I did this years and years ago it’s cold hot it doesn’t matter it’s a lime pasteurization high alkaline and you just use the heat to hydrate the grain..

go ahead patent it …

The way you started this thread is silly and you should be kicked off the site asking for help but not wanting to share information on techniques of already been tested and proven….


--------------------
........all the kids will eat it up if its packaged properly........

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: onefunguy]
    #27632947 - 01/25/22 10:10 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

onefunguy said:
Hey buddy did you even look at my post I did this years and years ago it’s cold hot it doesn’t matter it’s a lime pasteurization high alkaline and you just use the heat to hydrate the grain..

go ahead patent it …

The way you started this thread is silly and you should be kicked off the site asking for help but not wanting to share information on techniques of already been tested and proven….





I’m not sure I understand where the hostility is coming from, I was replying to nef not you.....

I haven’t  said and done anything to you .....

In bold red letters right above the poll it says “disregard the poll I can’t delete it” as in I scraped the idea of patentability early on this is also why I have made public what I’m using

and yes I read your thread and it’s not the same, I didn’t read everything yet but I will when I have the time I promise, but it appears that you did not follow up with any high temperature sterilization after the initial grain soak with lime...

I’m not soaking with lime I’m boiling with lime then washing the lime out of the grain to bring the ph back closer to neutral and finishing the incomplete sterilization process with a short timed high temperature sterilization in the pressure cooker, as well as running other experiments with microwave sterilization and lime, from what I read in your post, you soaked the rye with lime and then inoculated..... which is not the same


I’m kindly asking that you please refrain from saying “someone should be kicked off” that’s a bit rash, reminds me of the saying throw the baby out with the bath water right? Also why are you taking previous posts out of context and twisting things to fit the way you perceived it versus the way it was intended?

I haven’t asked for any help in this thread, why would I need help when everything in this thread is experimental? I don’t need help experimenting because there’s no set rules or guidelines for this kind of thing

And I believe you are out of line and out of place saying something like that or acting out of character, when nothing I’ve said up until now has been directed towards you, it’s not a good look to start bashing someone without understanding their perspective or intent,

With that being said I also understand it’s probably a misunderstanding and you might have been a bit hasty thinking I was replying to you instead of nef so I’m not holding it against you but I always “try” and give everyone a chance first and speak in a way as not to create hostility, also being quick to apologize and humble when I make a mistake to avoid conflict, and I get it I’m human this is something I struggle with like everyone else some more or less then others but it’s something I’m personally learning to practice more of these days and I think it’s a good philosophy everyone should have

Don’t let one bad apple ruin it for the bunch, when I see negative and disrespectful comments all it does is motivate me to move in the opposite direction, I’ll take the thread down and keep this to myself or share it elsewhere if it pans out as expected, but that’s not fair to everyone that’s been following the thread then is it? .... these kinds of comments are damaging to the moral of the community and anyone interested in innovation

All I’m asking is .... don’t be that guy......
encourage people, build people up man even if you don’t agree

:peace: & :heart:  brother 

Edited by 7Suns (01/25/22 11:03 PM)

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: SingularFusion]
    #27632952 - 01/25/22 10:12 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nef said:
yah sorry man I forgot how the whole thread started, novel ideas, patents and such

didn't mean to sound like it was nothing new eh :popcorn:




Your good man just wanted to clarify there was a bit of a difference between the two


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleonefunguy
bad blood
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Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 230
Loc: kihei, maui county
Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns] * 1
    #27633062 - 01/25/22 11:54 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah man I did boil in lime…

The hostility comes from so many people sharing their time and experience here three years and years and years and you come in here like you got the secret plan to grow morels I’m gonna Bogard it

No my way is better because it’s to eliminate sterilizing and it works with oysters I didn’t have time to read all of what you wrote seems like I really got onto your nerves but you’re in a forum where we share its citizens scientists that make these changes and it just pisses me off people coming in taking what they want and then not wanting to share back but anyways man…


--------------------
........all the kids will eat it up if its packaged properly........

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