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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Successful sterilization of oats in just 30 minutes [Re: Soviet Data]
    #27597934 - 12/28/21 08:53 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Soviet Data said:
Ok I have a guess. Is your additive something that conducts heat? Otherwise why would any pressure cooking be necessary? If you're just getting the outer half inch to temperature that ain't worth much. So my theory is some kind of conductive material. :wink: No clue what could safely do that though.





I don’t even understand what you’re talking about bud you’re out in left field

Half inch of what?

Pressure cooking is necessary to kill off bacteria and mold spores that are resistant to other forms of sterilization, so yea pressure cooking your grain is pretty important, maybe I’m not understanding what you’re talking about but it made absolutely no sense to me

It’s not conductive material

This isn’t a guessing game


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
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InvisibleSpeeker

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 894
Re: Successful sterilization of oats in just 30 minutes [Re: 7Suns]
    #27597945 - 12/28/21 08:58 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

7Suns said:
That’s is what you’re saying right?




Nope. You start counting that 15 min time after everything inside the cooker has reached 121 C.
As you cooked them 30 mins then they had that 15 mins time to reach that 121 C.
If you cook more jars it takes naturally longer..


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blog

Edited by Speeker (12/28/21 09:06 PM)

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InvisibleSoviet Data
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Re: Successful sterilization of oats in just 30 minutes [Re: 7Suns]
    #27597964 - 12/28/21 09:17 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

What I was getting at is this: normally you pressure sterilize for let's say 90 minutes. The heat has to penetrate all the way through to the center of the substrate in that time. In your experiment you did 30 minutes, which in normal conditions would only heat up part of the substrate.

So my guess as to what the additive was was something that could speed up the heating process itself, so that the heat penetrates to the center quicker. First thought being something highly conductive. I'm no expert in thermodynamics obviously, I doubt what I'm saying would even work. Just a thought.

Anyways, I know you aren't answering any guesses. I'll be curious to see your further results. :smile:

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Successful sterilization of oats in just 30 minutes [Re: Speeker]
    #27597969 - 12/28/21 09:24 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Speeker said:
Quote:

7Suns said:
That’s is what you’re saying right?




Nope. You start counting that 15 min time after everything inside the cooker has reached 121 C.
As you cooked them 30 mins then they had that 15 mins time to reach that 121 C.
If you cook more jars it takes naturally longer..





I’m sorry but that doesn’t track,

Water will only boil under a pressure of 15 psi when it has reached a temperature of 250f (121C)

Therefore if I understand this correctly if the rocker on my pressure cooker starts rocking at 15 psi then the internal temperature is 250f (121C) and you are good to start your timer because it’s up to temp

I don’t understand how you can say it’s not not at 250f if it’s at 15 psi the two figures are proportional, you can’t have one without the other


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
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7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
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7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Successful sterilization of oats in just 30 minutes [Re: Soviet Data]
    #27597979 - 12/28/21 09:32 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Soviet Data said:
What I was getting at is this: normally you pressure sterilize for let's say 90 minutes. The heat has to penetrate all the way through to the center of the substrate in that time. In your experiment you did 30 minutes, which in normal conditions would only heat up part of the substrate.

So my guess as to what the additive was was something that could speed up the heating process itself, so that the heat penetrates to the center quicker. First thought being something highly conductive. I'm no expert in thermodynamics obviously, I doubt what I'm saying would even work. Just a thought.

Anyways, I know you aren't answering any guesses. I'll be curious to see your further results. :smile:





Thanks for clarifying

You know that’s what they say, that it doesn’t heat up the core evenly but I haven’t seen any actual proof of this, I’m sure it’s out there and something I need to do more research into, but I feel under normal circumstances with a normal load for me  (7 quart jars in a 16 quart canner) the temperature dispersal is fairly even ( just speculation) like I said tho I haven’t actually seen or research that too in-depth so I can’t  speak on it


But not this isn’t thermodynamics lol that’s a beast in it’s self


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
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InvisibleSpeeker

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 894
Re: Successful sterilization of oats in just 30 minutes [Re: 7Suns] * 2
    #27597986 - 12/28/21 09:42 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

7Suns said:
Water will only boil under a pressure of 15 psi when it has reached a temperature of 250f (121C)

Therefore if I understand this correctly if the rocker on my pressure cooker starts rocking at 15 psi then the internal temperature is 250f (121C) and you are good to start your timer because it’s up to temp





Water may have reached that 121 C, but the inside of your jars has not - at that point...


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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Successful sterilization of oats in just 30 minutes [Re: Speeker]
    #27597999 - 12/28/21 09:51 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Seems reasonable but do you have any supporting information to back this statement.


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
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7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
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7suns cheap AF flowhood
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InvisibleSpeeker

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Re: Successful sterilization of oats in just 30 minutes [Re: 7Suns]
    #27598026 - 12/28/21 10:13 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

That's the basics.. while these funny forums and such might give some good general guidance,
the theory behind them might not always be so exact..
Some good book could be better option..


--------------------
blog

Edited by Speeker (12/28/21 10:28 PM)

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OfflineTri-Polar
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns] * 3
    #27598308 - 12/29/21 06:47 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

You're getting resistance because you posted an experiment in its infancy, that you don't want to answer questions about or have discourse on.

I feel like you'd have been better off running the trials and then coming with results.

Usually people that post unfinished experiments/ update as they go is so they can get feedback, engage with other experienced mycologists, all the benefits of being part of a community; not to get defensive and tell everyone its not a guessing game lol.

Keep your idea I hope you make beaucoup bucks


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Offlineanatomality
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: Tri-Polar]
    #27598312 - 12/29/21 06:56 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I mean, I'm interested. If it is proven to have better outcomes, then I'd try it.
I'm realizing that all my latest failures seems to be because I was preparing my grain badly...


--------------------
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OfflineFungiPapi
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Re: Successful sterilization of oats in just 30 minutes [Re: Speeker] * 1
    #27598332 - 12/29/21 07:30 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Do your additives artificially induce germination? Something like L-alanine, L-valine, or L-glutamine?

I could see using something that artificially germinated the spores then finishes the sterilization with a short PC cycle.

Edited by FungiPapi (12/29/21 07:33 AM)

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Successful sterilization of oats in just 30 minutes [Re: FungiPapi]
    #27598417 - 12/29/21 09:22 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FungiPapi said:
Do your additives artificially induce germination? Something like L-alanine, L-valine, or L-glutamine?

I could see using something that artificially germinated the spores then finishes the sterilization with a short PC cycle.





So far you’re probably the closest I’ve seen and the logic tracks along the same lines as my experiment good job 😉

Although it’s Not what I’m actually doing it is very closely related and similar in theory

But again let’s stop trying to guess


Since everyone is hell bent on this I’ll provide a little more information (I actually stated it in the first post “kills 99% of endospores”  therefore the theory behind it is a follow up with a short sterilization time is only necessary to kill the remaining 1% which I suspect is from any contaminants that land on it while exposed to the open air)

The “additives” actually penetrate the entire grain and change its structure (I believe it converts its protein and starch into different forms but they are still useable food sources in this altered state

Lol have fun scratching your heads at this one 😂


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: Tri-Polar]
    #27598429 - 12/29/21 09:38 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)


Si
Quote:

Tri-Polar said:
You're getting resistance because you posted an experiment in its infancy, that you don't want to answer questions about or have discourse on.

I feel like you'd have been better off running the trials and then coming with results.

Usually people that post unfinished experiments/ update as they go is so they can get feedback, engage with other experienced mycologists, all the benefits of being part of a community; not to get defensive and tell everyone its not a guessing game lol.

Keep your idea I hope you make beaucoup bucks






I’m not really defensive I understand there’s going to be serious criticism, it sounds a bit far fetched right? I get that

I’m saying stop guessing because it’s not going to get y’all anywhere
When I’m ready to share that part of the process with everyone I will
But I think it’s important to bring y’all along for the ride

If I fail I will eat my own words and move forward
But if I succeed then I will have something important that can change the way mushrooms are cultivated

Sure I got a little excited and jumped the gun posting this before all the results are in because there’s no visible contamination in the fist week but I have a good feeling about it and wanted to at least share with others some of the details of the tests I’m running


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

Edited by 7Suns (12/29/21 09:43 AM)

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OfflineJawn849
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns] * 1
    #27598563 - 12/29/21 11:57 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I respect that you're trying something different, and I really do hope it works. But I think you're ruffling feathers (maybe this is your intent) by saying things like "the post is not intended to be helpful to the community" because the whole point of this website is open source information to help the community. Also kinda shady to put up a poll and then say "Because the majority is against it so far,  this suggests I probably should". These types of statements are not helping you.
Also if you really want to get the attention of the gourmet mushroom industry, a few jars won't cut it. Gourmet farms use bags. If this idea actually works, any farm that has 100k to a half million to spend on your patent is certainly running more than a few jars. And you will need many many bags proven beyond your impeccable inspection to change a farmers opinion/process, especially if you want any farmers to actually pay you money for it. The farmers I know are even more skeptical about things than this community. Their livelihood depends on it. Good luck with your project

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: Jawn849] * 1
    #27598568 - 12/29/21 12:08 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Fair enough I’ll just trash everything and stop posting since it’s ruffling feathers

It’s not my intent so I’ll just stop the thread here if that’s what everyone wants

Thanks again


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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InvisibleSoviet Data
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns] * 1
    #27598614 - 12/29/21 12:49 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I've been following this thread from the start and here's my observation. People have naturally been trying to discuss and figure out what you're technique is. I wouldn't say at all that it's a highjacking of your thread for it to become a bunch of people throwing out theories and guesses ("should I patent this hinted at idea" becoming a discussion of what the idea might be seems unavoidable). The disconnect here in my view is that I don't think anyone was directly expecting an answer from you, but you seem to assume that anyone discussing what you're doing is directly asking you "is this it?" I don't think most of us are.

I have honestly been in your exact situation before, where I've made a post on a forum only to have the feeling that every respondent is not reading it carefully, that the thread had become something I never wanted. Then gone back and edited the OG post to try and help things to no avail. Probably it will happen with this post because I ramble. :lol: I have empathy for where you're at with the thread. But man, people are just mycology nerds on here, highly skeptical of and interested in what you might be doing. If I were you I'd just sit back and enjoy all the wrong guesses.

Still interested to hear more results.

:smile:

Edit: attempts at clarification

Edited by Soviet Data (12/29/21 12:53 PM)

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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: Soviet Data]
    #27598632 - 12/29/21 01:06 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Soviet data that made me smile a little, I appreciate you response and empathy


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
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7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
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7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns] * 2
    #27598638 - 12/29/21 01:16 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jawn849 said:
I respect that you're trying something different, and I really do hope it works. But I think you're ruffling feathers (maybe this is your intent) by saying things like "the post is not intended to be helpful to the community" because the whole point of this website is open source information to help the community. Also kinda shady to put up a poll and then say "Because the majority is against it so far,  this suggests I probably should". These types of statements are not helping you.
Also if you really want to get the attention of the gourmet mushroom industry, a few jars won't cut it. Gourmet farms use bags. If this idea actually works, any farm that has 100k to a half million to spend on your patent is certainly running more than a few jars. And you will need many many bags proven beyond your impeccable inspection to change a farmers opinion/process, especially if you want any farmers to actually pay you money for it. The farmers I know are even more skeptical about things than this community. Their livelihood depends on it. Good luck with your project





Quote:

7Suns said:
Fair enough I’ll just trash everything and stop posting since it’s ruffling feathers

It’s not my intent so I’ll just stop the thread here if that’s what everyone wants

Thanks again




After this whole thread, THAT was what finally got ya?! :lol:

No I'm joking, I know how you feel, but Jawn IMO was just being honest and helpful, in a rather friendly way.  You've encountered some resistance in this thread, but nothing like what you would've got over in mush cult, I've actually been impressed how tactful folks have been when you make claims like that, considering this IS an internet message board and you are challenging well-known, and quite well-established norms of practice.  To be frank, that's not something you should ever do if you have thin skin, in any field, anywhere.

So I ask you to reconsider, maybe un-ruffle your own feathers, and realize the folks in this thread for the most part have been quite supportive and willing to listen to claims that are, as you MUST realize, quite remarkable, and not anyone is going to just readily believe.


--------------------
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Offline7SunsS
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: Forrester]
    #27598943 - 12/29/21 05:39 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Forrester.... of coarse I would never throw out my research or experiments 😂

He’s clearly missing the bigger picture, this can potentially be scaled up, for larger farms but honestly I’m not too concerned with other’s opinions

Either it works or it doesn’t

This is trial and error

Honestly I don’t have to share anything about it at all


--------------------
Following the lost souls as they transcend the seven dimensions, through playful dancing, like wandering shadows in the heat of a mirage
7suns grain sac hack
7suns straw log hack
7suns official OTC antibiotic agar recipe
7suns DIY filter bags
7suns cheap AF flowhood
7suns cold weather fruit chamber

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OfflineMastershakes
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Re: Possible success sterilizing oats in just 30 minutes? [Re: 7Suns] * 1
    #27599411 - 12/30/21 03:50 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I won't even pretend I have the same experience as anyone else in this thread in mycology, but I do follow basic logic, so that's all I can do.

Number 1. I fully support anyone trying new shit and sharing it, or not sharing, you do you, and the more we experiment the further everyone gets ahead.

But that's the thing. Experiment.  The only issue I have is that it seems like you are failing to experiment. Even if you have flawless technique, your DIY laminar flow hood for 40$ works perfectly, and you have the eye of an eagle when  it come to contamination, you still have yet to put a grain to agar or under the microscope (that you say you have). You have no idea what you have in those jars. Period.

Hell if you even posted your jars, nobody here could be able to see the contamination unless it's rampant.  You are claiming BIG things, but doing it very unscientifically. You even took offense when other people said you might not be able to see the contamination. That's just not very scientific of you.

Try new things, post about them, but don't say wild things, claim they work within days time, and get upset when people call you out, or recommend some good practices to follow when it comes to your experiment.

At some point you might just disappear claiming it worked 100% or that you didn't like the way you were treated, just so it can be a "what if" in people's minds, but it adds nothing.  But then again you said you don't want this post to be helpful.

People here gave you some great ideas on how to move your experiment forward. Drop the ego and listen to them.


--------------------
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