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AngryStork
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Registered: 12/15/21
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Supershrooms? 1
#27586429 - 12/18/21 05:04 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you think the psychedelic mushrooms we have now could have been victims to senescence at some point in the history of fungi and there could be some lost ancestor in the genetics that was superpotent or the size of a tree and if so do you think we could ever build the genetics back up or find it randomly through mutation?
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Notarealguy
Stranger danger


Registered: 02/10/21
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If anything they are stronger and bigger now than ever before. We've been selectively breeding them for a minute now.
Just look at cannabis.
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Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
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Why is this an advanced topic? đ¤
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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AngryStork
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Cuz I was hoping some experienced shroom geneticist here could say no and here's why. Or yes and here's why. I don't really think we've been building up the genetics exactly completely. We've been preserving species and creating mutations and enhancing those mutations but I don't think we've discovered every mutation. And beyond that I don't think we've discovered every mutation of every mushroom either. Who knows? Maybe there is an undiscovered psychedelic compound found in some undiscovered slime mold only found 30 feet under certain trees deep in the rainforest or growing in some cave offshoot miles deep in the marianas trench? We don't know.
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Smartattack
C'mon man



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I suppose....just not sure its the right forum for wild speculatory fantasy is all. Im not the police and I wonder about far weirder things, just saying this is usually reserved for nerd stuff. 
Im all for redwood sized APE fruits though. 
And Id say enigma alone is sufficient to give an idea what is possible for mutation to provide. Gigantism is another thing altogether though and would likely require spawn by the dumptruck load to discover that particular mutation even if it was present.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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AngryStork
Stranger


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That's a good point. I'll generalize and nerdify my question a bit to ask how far along people think the psychedelic mushroom species have been studied. How saturated? Do people think there are undiscovered psychedelic mushrooms or psychedelic compounds or do you guys and gals think they have pretty much all been discovered studied etc.?
Another think I've been wondering about-in my cultivations I've noticed that the fastest colonizer is not always the fastest to fruit. When selecting for genes (something I haven't dived into but want to) how do you differentiate on a petri of agar between the thiccest colonizer vs the best gene when looking at the mycelium? Is it just guesswork or should I be looking for more tomentose vs thicker roots(?) I'm rambling.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
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Quote:
AngryStork said: That's a good point. I'll generalize and nerdify my question a bit to ask how far along people think the psychedelic mushroom species have been studied. How saturated? Do people think there are undiscovered psychedelic mushrooms or psychedelic compounds or do you guys and gals think they have pretty much all been discovered studied etc.?
There are a lot of psilocybin mushrooms yet to be discovered - I have two Psilocybe species in my lab that I am working on. There are quite a few undiscovered psychedelic Gymnopilus and Panaeolus species, and at least one undiscovered psilocybin containing Pholiotina and an undiscovered psilocybin containing Tubaria.
Regarding the psychedelic compounds, it was recently discovered that psilocybin mushrooms also have beta-carbolines that inhibit MAO. See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31729089/
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AngryStork
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That's fascinating. How do you know there are missing species? Have they been spotted and never kept or lost or what's going on there?
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Eclipse3130
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I wonder the more domesticated/genetically manipulated a variety becomes such as cubensis, PE for example if these minor compounds become less apparent or if they increase along with psilocybin/psilocin content when isolating for potency. I would imagine it's entirely variety dependent or that it's somewhat like cannabis, higher THC contents over time were bred into the plant, overshadowing the natural balance of the alkaloid profile
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Quote:
AngryStork said: That's fascinating. How do you know there are missing species? Have they been spotted and never kept or lost or what's going on there?
I have collections in the lab and have sequenced them and done microscopy, so I can tell they are new species.
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Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
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We've probably discovered relatively few fungus species that exist worldwide (correct me Alan, đ) so it's anyone's guess what is out there waiting. Could be hundreds more actives, some in ways we don't know yet possibly.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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AngryStork
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That's cool af. Ever tried mycelial mating between Macrocybe Titans and a cube or a big laughing gym? Is anyone trying that kind of thing with edible species to combat world hunger? How awesome would it be if it worked with matsutakis or morels and made them easier to cultivate??
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Icyurmt
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I imagine that would be like trying to mate a deer with a rabbit in an attempt to get a jackalope. Those examples are very far apart from one another. Someone else who knows better will surely chime in, but I believe that similar to animals they would have to be the same or very close sp for mating to actually occur.
My question is with how frequently nn-dmt occurs in so many other organisms, does anyone know if it has ever been detected in a mushroom yet?
-------------------- đď¸ đ why you are empty. Hunt for the habitat not the mushroom.
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AngryStork
Stranger


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Re: Supershrooms? [Re: Icyurmt] 2
#27593682 - 12/25/21 01:13 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,825
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Quote:
AngryStork said: there could be some lost ancestor in the genetics that was superpotent or the size of a tree
To answer part of the original question⌠They likely werenât active back then but tree sized mushrooms wouldâve been pretty amazing to see
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/long-before-trees-overtook-the-land-earth-was-covered-by-giant-mushrooms-13709647/
Edit: just reread the article and noticed they arenât saying definitively that they were mushrooms but thatâs the theory
Edited by TheStallionMang (01/01/22 11:14 PM)
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6ixShooter
Creator of common moulds



Registered: 05/29/20
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CRISPR... PCR...Qpcr...ECT...
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gwyndis
Dumbass Hobbyist


Registered: 05/10/20
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I mean it's possible, but evolutionarily speaking, I don't see how that would necessarily help a given species survive more effectively. The alkaloids produced by psychoactive mushrooms act as a deterrent to insects looking to eat the mushrooms before they drop spores. Being more potent or bigger doesn't seem like something that would help a given species of psychoactive mushroom be more likely to survive.
It's possible, but not likely, and the fossil record doesn't provide very strong evidence to either assertion.
Edited by gwyndis (01/08/22 11:41 PM)
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Chem7
Outsider Looking In



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Re: Supershrooms? [Re: gwyndis] 2
#27646929 - 02/05/22 11:53 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Somewhere around 350 million years ago, there were giant fungi called Prototaxites. These were as big around as tree trunks and over 20 feet in height. One theory goes that these grew this large to get above the thick carbon dioxide layer that covered the earth during the Devonian period, just as the mushrooms we know do when pushing past the casing layer. As microbial life boomed and oxygen levels increased, environmental pressure for size decreased and competitive life forms advanced, so size was no longer an evolutionary advantage. Point is, the mycologic life we see today is a product of its environmental pressures. We selectively breed to bridge the gap between what evolution tells the species is optimal for survival and what we view as optimal for our purposes. It's possible that there are species yet undiscovered that produce higher concentrations of psilocybin, since there are still millions of uncataloged species, but it would require environmental pressure to stimulate that trait. I would bet on Australia, if such mushrooms were to exist anywhere, since there is such diverse and aggressive competition there.
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Hail to the King, Baby
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
AngryStork said: That's a good point. I'll generalize and nerdify my question a bit to ask how far along people think the psychedelic mushroom species have been studied. How saturated? Do people think there are undiscovered psychedelic mushrooms or psychedelic compounds or do you guys and gals think they have pretty much all been discovered studied etc.?
There are a lot of psilocybin mushrooms yet to be discovered - I have two Psilocybe species in my lab that I am working on. There are quite a few undiscovered psychedelic Gymnopilus and Panaeolus species, and at least one undiscovered psilocybin containing Pholiotina and an undiscovered psilocybin containing Tubaria.
Regarding the psychedelic compounds, it was recently discovered that psilocybin mushrooms also have beta-carbolines that inhibit MAO. See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31729089/
I have some active Panaeolus that I haven't been able to identify, yet! They are going out Monday with some other Panaeolus and A Gymnopilus species to alvalab.es for sequencing of the ITS region. I may get with you Alan to help me with sorting out the data to make sure that it's as accurate as possible. It would be nice to compare my Panaeolus findings with yours.
I was just reading a paper that suggest that ITS and LSU should not be used for Global comparisons of phylogenetics (at least that's what I took from the paper), has anyone else seen anything about this? This is the papers name: Analyses of ITS and LSU gene regions provide congruent results on fungal community responses by S. P. Brown et. al.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Bostock1957
Just Me


Registered: 02/05/22
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Is the size they grow in accordance to the amount the mycelium has to eat or use for protein to turn into the energy to make a mushroom? I've been trying different thicknesses of brown rice cakes to see if this is any help or not. Started with one inch thick cakes, not at one and a half, and it still spreads within two weeks in the dark. So trying three inches next to see how long it takes to populate and then I'll have a good guessable clue as to how much my tub will produce before I do it in case it won't pay off in the end as well as jars do.
-------------------- "The Journey Is The Reward"!! Bo
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