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OfflineForresterM
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The Little Garden * 6
    #27577075 - 12/11/21 09:00 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

It is only the awareness of the body that makes love seem limited. For the body is a limit on love. The belief in limited love was its origin, and it was made to limit the unlimited. Think not that this is merely allegorical, for it was made to limit you. Can you who see yourself within a body know yourself as an idea? Everything you recognize you identify with externals, something outside itself. You cannot even think of God without a body, or in some form you think you recognize.

The body cannot know. And while you limit your awareness to its tiny senses, you will not see the grandeur that surrounds you. God cannot come into a body, nor can you join Him there. Limits on love will always seem to shut Him out, and keep you apart from Him. The body is a tiny fence around a little part of a glorious and complete idea. It draws a circle, infinitely small, around a very little segment of Heaven, splintered from the whole, proclaiming that within it is your kingdom, where God can enter not.

Within this kingdom the ego rules, and cruelly. And to defend this little speck of dust it bids you fight against the universe. This fragment of your mind is such a tiny part of it that, could you but appreciate the whole, you would see instantly that it is like the smallest sunbeam to the sun, or like the faintest ripple on the surface of the ocean. In its amazing arrogance, this tiny sunbeam has decided it is the sun; this almost imperceptible ripple hails itself as the ocean. Think how alone and frightened is this little thought, this infinitesimal illusion, holding itself apart against the universe. The sun becomes the sunbeam's "enemy" that would devour it, and the ocean terrifies the little ripple and wants to swallow it.

Yet neither sun nor ocean is even aware of all this strange and meaningless activity. They merely continue, unaware that they are feared and hated by a tiny segment of themselves. Even that segment is not lost to them, for it could not survive apart from them. And what it thinks it is in no way changes its total dependence on them for its being. Its whole existence still remains in them. Without the sun the sunbeam would be gone; the ripple without the ocean is inconceivable.

Such is the strange position in which those in a world inhabited by bodies seem to be. Each body seems to house a separate mind, a disconnected thought, living alone and in no way joined to the Thought by which it was created. Each tiny fragment seems to be self-contained, needing another for some things, but by no means totally dependent on its one Creator for everything; needing the whole to give it any meaning, for by itself it does mean nothing. Nor has it any life apart and by itself.

Like to the sun and ocean your Self continues, unmindful that this tiny part regards itself as you. It is not missing; it could not exist if it were separate, nor would the Whole be whole without it. It is not a separate kingdom, ruled by an idea of separation from the rest. Nor does a fence surround it, preventing it from joining with the rest, and keeping it apart from its Creator. This little aspect is no different from the whole, being continuous with it and at one with it. It leads no separate life, because its life is the oneness in which its being was created.

Do not accept this little, fenced-off aspect as yourself. The sun and ocean are as nothing beside what you are. The sunbeam sparkles only in the sunlight, and the ripple dances as it rests upon the ocean. Yet in neither sun nor ocean is the power that rests in you. Would you remain within your tiny kingdom, a sorry king, a bitter ruler of all that he surveys, who looks on nothing yet who would still die to defend it? This little self is not your kingdom. Arched high above it and surrounding it with love is the glorious whole, which offers all its happiness and deep content to every part. The little aspect that you think you set apart is no exception.

Love knows no bodies, and reaches to everything created like itself. Its total lack of limit is its meaning. It is completely impartial in its giving, encompassing only to preserve and keep complete what it would give. In your tiny kingdom you have so little! Should it not, then, be there that you would call on love to enter? Look at the desert, dry and unproductive, scorched and joyless, that makes up your little kingdom. And realize the life and joy that love would bring to it from where it comes, and where it would return with you.

The Thought of God surrounds your little kingdom, waiting at the barrier you built to come inside and shine upon the barren ground. See how life springs up everywhere! The desert becomes a garden, green and deep and quiet, offering rest to those who lost their way and wander in the dust. Give them a place of refuge, prepared by love for them where once a desert was. And everyone you welcome will bring love with him from Heaven for you. They enter one by one into this holy place, but they will not depart as they had come, alone. The love they brought with them will stay with them, as it will stay with you. And under its beneficence your little garden will expand, and reach out to everyone who thirsts for living water, but has grown too weary to go on alone.

Go out and find them, for they bring your Self with them. And lead them gently to your quiet garden, and receive their blessing there. So will it grow and stretch across the desert, leaving no lonely little kingdoms locked away from love, and leaving you inside. And you will recognize yourself, and see your little garden gently transformed into the Kingdom of Heaven, with all the Love of its Creator shining upon it.

The holy instant is your invitation to love to enter into your bleak and joyless kingdom, and to transform it into a garden of peace and welcome. Love's answer is inevitable. It will come because you came without the body, and interposed no barriers to interfere with its glad coming. In the holy instant, you ask of love only what it offers everyone, neither less nor more. Asking for everything, you will receive it. And your shining Self will lift the tiny aspect that you tried to hide from Heaven straight to Heaven. No part of love calls on the whole in vain. No Son of God remains outside His Fatherhood.

Be sure of this; love has entered your special relationship, and entered fully at your weak request. You do not recognize that love has come, because you have not yet let go of all the barriers you hold against your brother. And you and he will not be able to give love welcome separately. You could no more know God alone than He knows you without your brother. But together you could no more be unaware of love than love could know you not, or fail to recognize itself in you.

You have reached the end of an ancient journey, not realizing yet that it is over. You are still worn and tired, and the desert's dust still seems to cloud your eyes and keep you sightless. Yet He Whom you welcomed has come to you, and would welcome you. He has waited long to give you this. Receive it now of Him, for He would have you know Him. Only a little wall of dust still stands between you and your brother. Blow on it lightly and with happy laughter, and it will fall away. And walk into the garden love has prepared for both of you.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27577130 - 12/11/21 09:50 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Ah, ACIM, the Face of Christ.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro] * 1
    #27597608 - 12/28/21 03:43 PM (2 years, 30 days ago)

Curious about scripture posted elsewhere on the forum, I thought to go back to clarifications in this text.

It has a lot of context around it. I'm inspired to reread.

A Course in Miracles – Chapter 6 – I. The Message of the Crucifixion
https://acourseinmiraclesnow.com/course-miracles-chapter-6-message-crucifixion/

T-6.I.15. These are some of the examples of upside-down thinking in the New Testament, although its gospel is really only the message of love. 2 If the Apostles had not felt guilty, they never could have quoted me as saying, "I come not to bring peace but a sword." 3 This is clearly the opposite of everything I taught. 4 Nor could they have described my reactions to Judas as they did, if they had really understood me. 5 I could not have said, "Betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?" unless I believed in betrayal. 6 The whole message of the crucifixion was simply that I did not. 7 The "punishment" I was said to have called forth upon Judas was a similar mistake. 8 Judas was my brother and a Son of God, as much a part of the Sonship as myself. 9 Was it likely that I would condemn him when I was ready to demonstrate that condemnation is impossible?

-

Another passage I happened upon.

Chapter 15 – VI. The Holy Instant and the Laws of God
https://acourseinmiraclesnow.com/course-miracles-chapter-15-vi-holy-instant-laws-god/

T-15.VI.5. In the world of scarcity, love has no meaning and peace is impossible. 2 For gain and loss are both accepted, and so no one is aware that perfect love is in him. 3 In the holy instant you recognize the idea of love in you, and unite this idea with the Mind that thought it, and could not relinquish it. 4 By holding it within itself, there is no loss. 5 The holy instant thus becomes a lesson in how to hold all of your brothers in your mind, experiencing not loss but completion. 6 From this it follows you can only give. 7 And this is love, for this alone is natural under the laws of God. 8 In the holy instant the laws of God prevail, and only they have meaning. 9 The laws of this world cease to hold any meaning at all. 10 When the Son of God accepts the laws of God as what he gladly wills, it is impossible that he be bound, or limited in any way. 11 In that instant he is as free as God would have him be. 12 For the instant he refuses to be bound, he is not bound.



Edited by syncro (12/28/21 03:49 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27597744 - 12/28/21 06:00 PM (2 years, 30 days ago)

Ah yes those are some good ones too!  I especially like the 2nd one there.

I am reading the whole thing the 2nd time through right now.  It's amazing how the right parts come to you at the right times.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27597789 - 12/28/21 06:46 PM (2 years, 30 days ago)

I have it out to read again as well. It's been a long time, such a profound study. Its treatment of the ego seems unique.


Edited by syncro (12/28/21 06:49 PM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27598115 - 12/28/21 11:50 PM (2 years, 30 days ago)

Interesting Forrester..

I have read The Course in Miracles and did the work book etc..

What are your feelings at this stage of the ACIM for you?

As for me I feel I am about 80% and I have trust/faith that I as well as others can reach that 100% state..

Pretty simple.. 100% means telling the truth the whole time in eternity.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27598168 - 12/29/21 01:49 AM (2 years, 30 days ago)

I feel pretty similar, 100% is tricky as it seems you can hold on to close to it for a minute, but time and the ego push back at you constantly so it's like trudging uphill in a river of flowing quicksand. You can hold your ground and still seem to backslide. But every day brings new opportunities to make the same choice, so you just have to do like he says and choose again.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27598256 - 12/29/21 05:33 AM (2 years, 30 days ago)

That, that which can be threatened is illusion.

It's not a place my ego typically dwells. I guess the ego is simply that which can be threatened.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27598636 - 12/29/21 01:14 PM (2 years, 29 days ago)

This morning I momentarily went face to face with "that which can be threatened is illusion," everything still, the presence full, that which cannot be threatened. I'd be tempted to call it a revelation as described in the first few pages of the text that I just went through, or maybe it's something less.

The reasoning goes, all things of the body or illusion are impermanent. But then I argued, revelation is also impermenent - it comes and goes, and remains a fading memory. Then the answer was, illusion is permanently impermanent, yet the impermanence of revelation is also impermanent. In other words, that natural state will at some point return eternally, as actually it hasn't left.


Edited by syncro (05/24/22 10:47 AM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27598641 - 12/29/21 01:18 PM (2 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
The reasoning goes, all things of the body or illusion are impermanent. But then I argued, revelation is also impermenent - it come and goes, and remains a fading memory. Then the answer was, illusion is permanently impermanent, yet the impermanence of revelation is also impermanent. In other words, that natural state will at some point return eternally, as actually it hasn't left.




Exactly!  That makes much sense, to me anyway.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27599352 - 12/30/21 12:21 AM (2 years, 29 days ago)

There is the player vs player aspect.. which is hard to come to terms with..

Winning and loosing in the brotherhood..

Hierarchy if mentioned can become real immediately..

Let the appropriate man do the appropriate thing.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27599382 - 12/30/21 01:57 AM (2 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Hierarchy if mentioned can become real immediately..





I think that's why it is stressed so often in the course that all are equal, there is no hierarchy in the creation, no order of difficulty in miracles, all are one.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27599463 - 12/30/21 06:02 AM (2 years, 29 days ago)

Agreed - I interpreted Brendan as saying hierarchy in the good way. I was recently in the material about true Authority vs tyranny, the latter around distorted perception.

Letting the elder decide, like surrendering the fruits of action, or seek ye first, that all is the Godhead, everything follows.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27600635 - 12/31/21 12:52 AM (2 years, 28 days ago)

There is hierarchy in competition necessarily..

In everyday life.. merit is about work effort and in great ideas..

It is hard to come away from the course thinking that all people are equal in every thing..

It is not multiple people that invent sonething but ONE person.

Though the idea that there is no difficulty in working miraclez at the end of the work.. being 100% IS true.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27612449 - 01/09/22 05:35 AM (2 years, 19 days ago)

Contemplating truth teachings not directly associated with this text, among them the four gateways to liberation, one of them being holy company, and in that the thought of Christ - happy in seeing an elder brother, as it were, I said, "How are you?" I was a bit embarrassed saying that impulsively to Christ. In my mind He understood and smiled in kind, and then, holy company being a gateway in my thought, He said, "I am Holy."

In that moment the extreme simplicity of the Holy Instant was clear, seeing a fellow soul as holy, necessarily shared in oneself.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27645678 - 02/04/22 03:17 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

4. Think of the love of animals for their offspring, and the need they feel to protect them. ²That is because they regard them as part of themselves. ³No one dismisses something he considers part of himself. ⁴You react to your ego much as God does to His creations,—with love, protection and charity. ⁵Your reactions to the self you made are not surprising. ⁶In fact, they resemble in many ways how you will one day react to your real creations, which are as timeless as you are. ⁷The question is not how you respond to the ego, but what you believe you are. ⁸Belief is an ego function, and as long as your origin is open to belief you are regarding it from an ego viewpoint. ⁹When teaching is no longer necessary you will merely know God. ¹⁰Belief that there is another way of perceiving is the loftiest idea of which ego thinking is capable. ¹¹That is because it contains a hint of recognition that the ego is not the Self. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/81#4:1-11 | T-4.II.4:1-11)

What are our real creations? I'm asking often. I'm asking just for a hint. Does anyone have a clue?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27645761 - 02/04/22 04:27 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
What are our real creations? I'm asking often. I'm asking just for a hint. Does anyone have a clue?




I'm halfway through my second full reading of the course, and I still haven't figured out this one.  He doesn't anywhere in the course seem to give a clear answer.  Guess it's one of those ones we gotta figure out ourselves, I'm hoping someday it will occur to me as I would really like to know.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27645932 - 02/04/22 06:20 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I find it's similar with the various terms like atonement, miracle. We can go with our experience and style to discover, or, it also says we can ask Him what miracles He would have us perform. Also He said we can offer, or ask Him to take charge of the ego, paraphrased. I find when going through the work, such things are as simple as asking. To remember and maintain is another thing.

One thing that came to me along the lines of our or God's creations, is that which IS when movement of thought has ceased. We know about ceasing movement of thought, but what a relief, to say the least, to regard it with such significance as our own beloved creation, a go-to.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27645961 - 02/04/22 06:31 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Where mind can split into self and that which, by distorted perception, is held as something other than mind, I find atonement, as at-one-ment, where it is realized there can be nothing, say, having to do with the body, that is not mind; this being strongly for me in the teaching, darkness cannot hide.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro] * 1
    #27646520 - 02/05/22 03:07 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
I find when going through the work, such things are as simple as asking. To remember and maintain is another thing.




I've found this to be very true. I remember when I first started the course, I was driving along just contemplating to myself how I was to know what exactly I needed to do, and immediately after I had that thought my gaze was drawn upward directly to a large sign on the side of a hardware store that read, "Just ask!" in huge lettering.  Funny how the guidance can come sometimes :lol:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #27647782 - 02/05/22 11:56 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Ask Ramana Maharshi to give you his Reality (in your mind, in your meditations). It is a wonderful achievement. It will light all your darknesses. :smile:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: psilocybinmansions]
    #27647898 - 02/06/22 05:01 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I'm actually reading a rather large tome about his teachings right now, it's a good one. Most of what he taught (in such a very different language such a long time ago) seems to go right along with what is taught in the course. Truth never does change but it's interesting to read how he described things, only wish I could read and understand Tamil myself (his native language) rather than a translation.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27674727 - 02/26/22 07:33 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I'm reading in the course about ego and the conflict, trying to find hints at something concrete to grasp around these terms, or ego. An emphasis is choosing which side holds reality as ego works to convince us that it is real, for the reality of the ideal, or the teacher, also means we are no less real. This is termed knowledge. Knowledge is, then, that we are real as That, and can have no compromise.

Vigilance to disengage. But I argue, from what, exactly? Is it like the Buddha's Fire Sermon, utter destruction of interest in the five senses and their objects? These are also seen as the ten heads of the demon, Ravana. But also it is done interacting in this world, in service and proper sight, healing. The body, then, a servant who does not dictate to the master.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27675407 - 02/27/22 11:49 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

syncro said:

Vigilance to disengage. But I argue, from what, exactly? Is it like the Buddha's Fire Sermon, utter destruction of interest in the five senses and their objects? These are also seen as the ten heads of the demon, Ravana. But also it is done interacting in this world, in service and proper sight, healing. The body, then, a servant who does not dictate to the master.




That is basically the way i take it. That none of the senses are to be trusted as they are interpreted through perception, which is not truth.  Only the holy spirit can see truly and is there to guide as we ask, and as we continue to make the choice between the holy spirit and the ego we can find the proper path. 

By the way I prefer to think of the holy spirit more as an inner intuition. Sounds less biblical... But I think it's the same thing.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27790489 - 05/24/22 09:50 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Found a clue on the beyond perception. "It is not a continuum, nor is it understood by being compared to an opposite." It helps me as I was hung up on whether it need be a continuum, or uniform. Odd though. One, yet not a continuum? Spirit may not be a continuum, but is there not an aspect of continuity? If it's all the same thing, how can it not be continuous? I guess there can be an essential continuity, but a continuum need not be a way to describe the beyond perception.

"It cannot be emphasized too often that correcting perception is merely a temporary expedient. ²It is necessary only because misperception is a block to knowledge, while accurate perception is a steppingstone towards it. ³The whole value of right perception lies in the inevitable realization that _all_ perception is unnecessary. ⁴This removes the block entirely. ⁵You may ask how this is possible as long as you appear to be living in this world. ⁶That is a reasonable question. ⁷You must be careful, however, that you really understand it. ⁸Who is the “you” who are living in this world? ⁹Spirit is immortal, and immortality is a constant state. ¹⁰It is as true now as it ever was or ever will be, because it implies no change at all. ¹¹It is not a continuum, nor is it understood by being compared to an opposite. ¹²Knowledge never involves comparisons." (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/81#11:1-11 | T-4.II.11:1-11)"


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27790842 - 05/24/22 04:17 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I think by explaining that the ultimate reality is not a continuum he is referring to the non-existence of time, the eternal doesn't continue because it never "was" it just is.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27790882 - 05/24/22 04:55 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Yes, that's a helpful reminder. It doesn't seem that time was related to what I was trying to settle, but it gives the effect nevertheless.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27790890 - 05/24/22 05:07 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Bringing peace about it, contemplating being beyond time.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27791500 - 05/25/22 01:31 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

It is so difficult to even fathom existence outside of time...


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27791565 - 05/25/22 02:15 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

The two ways out of time..

1. The perfect soul which is permanently here in a perfect moment/instant..with nothing else.

2. The dissolving of all forms of self the 32nd path of anatman. Of not. Of nothing.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27791568 - 05/25/22 02:16 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Freon..

The perfect conjecture of the next holy instant!


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27791784 - 05/25/22 05:06 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I think anything without boundaries is without time because without distance defined. Or where there is no difference of significance, there is not time. Maybe time is just a concern.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27868765 - 07/19/22 11:02 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

"Now you must learn that only infinite patience produces immediate effects. ²This is the way in which time is exchanged for eternity."


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27868779 - 07/19/22 11:22 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

"Infinite patience calls upon infinite love, and by producing results now it renders time unnecessary."


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27868916 - 07/19/22 01:06 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Those are some great quotes I had forgotten about!  As he often alludes to, once time is no longer needed we can allow it to cease to exist for us.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27869919 - 07/20/22 06:45 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

from yesterday-

There has been a steadiness in it for me today, the holding of it by holding out. The ego can tend to rest in some lesser thing, as if there is no where else to be, but then better mind's release of it, to look to the Kingdom, or the wide open. Holding out is in a sense holding nothing, therefore is unobscured. Holding out completely for the beloved is holding nothing else, and the vastness is seen.

Who would have thought waiting is having? If really waiting, the vicissitudes at the core are stopped, looking only to That. The book says giving is having. Perhaps this kind of waiting is giving, openness, the steadfast gaze to the infinitude, like Nandi the bull, in undisturbed oneness with the Shiva.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27869974 - 07/20/22 07:27 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Indeed it is true that the egos idea of giving tells us we must lose something in order to give to someone else, where in reality we only gain by giving to others.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27870676 - 07/20/22 05:38 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

"Rather, teach your own perfect immunity."

For me it takes reminding that the teachings do not apply to something destructible or able to destroy like the body. Such a thing cannot be real, as in other teachings, that which does not last cannot be real.

This is hard core no body.

"How else can you find joy in a joyless place except by realizing that you are not there? ²You cannot be anywhere God did not put you, and God created you as part of Him."

"It is completely unalterable. ⁵It is total inclusion. ⁶You cannot change it now or ever. ⁷It is forever true. ⁸It is not a belief, but a Fact."


Edited by syncro (07/21/22 03:02 AM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27871124 - 07/21/22 02:56 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
For me it takes reminding that the teachings to not apply to something destructible or able to destroy like the body. Such a thing cannot be real, as in other teachings, that which does not last cannot be real.





So true yet so difficult to live one's life without worry of protecting the body, having food, shelter, sustanence, etc.  It's nearly all the ego would have us do, especially in troubling times like we live in. I guess that's where all the talk of faith comes in. The choice to not believe in the illusion is what keeps us safe from it (there's some quotes on that but I can't find em).


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27871385 - 07/21/22 10:22 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I thought of Valmiki, in the early verses of Vasistha's Yoga, putting it quite simply.

"This world-appearance is a confusion, even as the blueness of the sky is an optical illusion. I think it is better not to let the mind dwell on it, but to ignore it."

:smile:


Edited by syncro (07/21/22 12:15 PM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27871576 - 07/21/22 01:09 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Haha, quite simply but perfectly said! :smile:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27872656 - 07/22/22 09:50 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

It says that the Kingdom is being.

Then a lesson is to be vigilant only for the Kingdom, or then, be vigilant only for being.

I was asking, as an affirmative effort, okay, what is not being? What is not being?

In considering a person, he is a being. To say that implies he is all these other things that are not being, the body, the obligatory life things; he is caged in the elements.

But it's not he is a being, but he is being. It became powerful within, the healing aspect, being as a proactive visionary thing, like prana. And I thought that was glimpsing creating as opposed to making (illusions).

So, the last thing being is, is passive. Being is life force, dynamic. I suppose it could be passive. I mean, in oneness with itself, on what would it need to act? But that is what we are, the Kingdom, only being.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27881592 - 07/29/22 10:42 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I once had a mushroom trip back in 2014 that actually kind of reminds me of this post. I call it the moment I was "awakened". I was on the beach when it happened, alone, and it was the most beautiful moment of my life. I wish I could share a video clip of what was going on through my mind that day and post that lol ...I was going through a tough time with someone. I actually tripped with this person before the experience happened...I was working nights as a waitress at a diner restaurant and got off work at like 5a.m . Got to his house and we ate a 8th of shrooms and headed to the beach...I really wish I knew what they were...anyways shit was super weird and awkward and we get there and pretty much walked around for 10 minutes and I guess we decided to leave...so it's probably like 7-8 a.m at this point, I drop him off and something told me to drive back out to the beach ..so I did...now in retrospect I probably shouldn't had been driving of course to begin with and I am sure there are a lot of people who would love to let me have it for doing it but I did and don't plan on doing it again...anyways on the way to the beach i am thinking about the person and all the shit we been through and all sorts of other crap I had going on and just broke down crying.. I get to the beach and like sucked it all up, acted like I was fine...I walk down the pathway to get to the sand and ocean and hear this weird trumpet sound off in the distance, not sure what it was about but I am feeling down and started feeling like I was walking to my death as i was walking to the ocean...not that I was planning on killing myself, it was just a weird feeling that, that was what I was doing (which now i have learned was ego death) I get to the edge of where the sand and ocean meet and I sit down and begin to calm down. I look around at everyone having fun, wishing to be a part of everyone else's fun lol and then something with the clouds and the sun caught my attention. I am gazing out to the ocean and the sun and clouds were acting super weird with the waves and all the sudden I feel this presence within the waves and sun itself. Then a voice in my head. A male voice at that speaks to me. Not like a person standing next to me talking but almost like I was being channeled . I can't say word for word everything that this voice had said other than 3 things "Be kind to people, animals, and the Earth" a few other personal things I'd rather not share, and even cussed lol. Told me to "get my ass home" lol but what was interesting was I felt the presence leave with the waves the same way the presence came in with them. It's weird because I know how the water works..you got your high tide and your low tide and depending on the tide the current will pull the waves certain ways, well happening while tides are switching, I can understand...however tides don't shift 2 times in that close period of time. It was very weird, and just the presence alone like I cannot describe it other than feeling super calm and peaceful and pure love. Everything felt so real and I don't care who believes me or not on that one. I am sure some will argue and say I was just hallucinating of course but to me this was much more than just "tripping balls" this is something that had changed my life for the better and made me want to be a better person and taught me what having true faith really is about. I am not a religious person. My dad's family is catholic and so I grew up catholic but as I got older became more agnostic than anything. Not too long after that experience is when I started getting drawn into spirituality and is where I stand. I feel like I was purposely shown that the existence of a higher power truly does exist and maybe I am supposed to be helping spread the truth. The only problem, is the same problem that has been going on for centuries, not everyone believes or they think it's dumb to believe. I am not someone who likes to push my beliefs on people because I do not like it when people do it to me but I do still feel it is my duty to spread his word. So everyone reading let's please 🙏 "Be kind to people, be kind to animals, and be kind to the Earth"... Forrester I am sorry if this is obnoxiously long and a little off topic. It was just some of the things you were saying that reminded me of this experience and idk if would say this is one of the synchronicity moments. It's just interesting reading you mentioning God, and the sun, and the ripples. I can't say God actually entered my fence but definitely got in my crown hahha


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Ayymannduhh]
    #27881660 - 07/29/22 12:22 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Do you have any thoughts about who you feel like the presence that spoke to you was?  Like God, spirit guide, higher self, etc? 
Sounds like it had a good effect on you though, interesting the ways in which a helper of whatever sort can assist in changing your life path or outlook so drastically.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27881779 - 07/29/22 01:58 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I FEEL like it was God lol definitely not my higher self.. I feel like my higher selfs voice is a lot like my egos, just nicer lol ..spirit guide??? Could have been, it was a males voice.. I didn't FEEL like it was a spirit guide though, which I know doesn't say much because I don't know what a spirit guide would sound like if he or she were talking to me. The presence to me just FELT like something more to me. Powerful but peaceful, I wasn't afraid at all. Confused. I actually had the advantage of speaking to a "shaman" one time about it and she didn't agree or disagree with me on it. She didn't say God, she kept saying higher power. I choose to say God because the God I have always heard of, of course if the highest power, and to me it would take some pretty high power to be able to come through to a person like that. I feel like the experience really saved me and I wish this sort of thing happened more often to people, but I guess that is where the mystery stays.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27904801 - 08/15/22 07:49 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Again, which thread? - About the considerations of Shankara in the veiling power and staying power in the qualities, these of ego or ignorance, but also in the teachings in the course around, and somewhat of a mystery to me, success in the return being so much about others, a mystery because we really can seem so isolated in our inner lives.

I thought, what if we were really far more, directly connected with others in being that is apparent? It is what the course drives.

Considering the truth of this really seemed to awaken an inner acknowledgement, and if it is true, what an opportunity and responsibility it presents - what fuel it provides to be in our top form, transmitting as it were, and in that, so powerfully bringing it to ourselves.

The opposite polarity of the veil here being that we are actually very much connected, that of the staying power of the veiling countered and replaced by the great reward of synergy of acting in that light.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27910619 - 08/20/22 01:51 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I was thinking the other day about how social norms and sexuality limit love between whatever we are..  I have always recognized the way our miserable life span warps it and makes it pure pain since my first tastes of it. but this was a distinct realization.. It's only possible to see it briefly beyond the haze of the franticness of sexual relationship.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27935167 - 09/05/22 10:46 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

"You cannot behold the world and know God."

"No one created by God can find joy in anything except the eternal; not because he is deprived of anything else, but because nothing else is worthy of him."

Sometimes that will comes, natural in the mind that is not in any other way.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27935175 - 09/05/22 10:57 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

That 2nd quote I like a lot because it seems so true, especially when you remember the other passages about how nothing that isn't eternal is real in any way; hence the dream analogy.

The first one I find difficult.  How does one work on "not beholding the world".  That's the part I've always struggled with.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27935420 - 09/05/22 01:43 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I think it can happen in whatever ways the outer senses can fade when in that intention, or spontaneously, as a result of either contemplative practice, use of psychs, absorption, the "estrangement" to the senses and their objects, ...

I think it is identical with the turiya (being), or is reflected in the subtle sheaths that may still be obscurations, though are nevertheless clearer reflections, perhaps like what is said as correct perception, but still not in knowledge that is unchanging.

Stillness alone I think can fade the senses in that way. As Vasistha says, the world appearance arises with movement of thought in consciousness, and together they cease.

The course equates joy, freedom, wholeness. Perhaps in true perception of wholeness, or the others, the world is fading.


Edited by syncro (09/05/22 01:46 PM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27947638 - 09/12/22 11:37 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wabbey said:
"The soul loves to meditate, for in contact with the Spirit lies its greatest joy. If, then you experience mental resistance during meditation, remember that reluctance to meditate comes from the ego; it doesn't belong to the soul."
- Sri Paramahansa Yogananda:psychsplit::heartpump::sunny:




I was trying a reply here earlier on something around this. The above is recent from the quotes thread.

The thing about the course, in a kind of recognition, a very simple acceptance fostered tends to slowly reveal a welcoming of superior will, as well our own, aligned with the only real will.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27947642 - 09/12/22 11:43 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

It's almost humorous looking back on it - the course says flat out we do not know what we want, and we cannot possibly find it out from the ego. And that what we want is the simple and obvious, that spirit nature that has no inkling of confusion.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #27949917 - 09/14/22 03:59 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Confusion or desire, seems similar to Buddhism in that regard.

Realizing we do not know what will make us happy can be applied to every day life as well.  I quit my job of 12 years and took a job I didn't ever imagine I could even do, much less would enjoy, because there were many synchronicities and the universe seemed to be leading me there, and I'm the happiest I've ever been.  Following the "holy spirit" as he refers to it, and obstacles do seem to be consistently cleared from my path and everything seems to fall into place.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27953122 - 09/16/22 04:28 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

"You do not know your creations simply because you would decide against them as long as your mind is split, and to attack what you have created is impossible. ²But remember that _it is as impossible for God._ ³The law of creation is that you love your creations as yourself, because they are part of you."

Going again to what possibly our authentic creations are, conjecturing, and to the Yogananda quote, every bit of those kinds of efforts involve the creating, the study, contemplations, and sadhanas, the intents for the welfare of others and proper sight; these manifest powerfully in the subtle, the fruits of which wait for us, and even here we can tend to see the natures as we turn.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27953226 - 09/16/22 05:23 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

"You will remember everything the instant you desire it wholly, for if to desire wholly is to create, you will have willed away the separation, returning your mind simultaneously to your Creator and your creations. ²Knowing Them you will have no wish to sleep, but only the desire to waken and be glad. ³Dreams will be impossible because you will want only truth, and being at last your will, it will be yours."


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27976597 - 10/01/22 12:32 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

11. VII. The Condition of Reality

1. The world as you perceive it cannot have been created by the Father, for the world is not as you see it. ²God created only the eternal, and everything you see is perishable. ³Therefore, there must be another world that you do not see. ⁴The Bible speaks of a new Heaven and a new earth, yet this cannot be literally true, for the eternal are not re-created. ⁵To perceive anew is merely to perceive again, implying that before, or in the interval between, you were not perceiving at all. ⁶What, then, is the world that awaits your perception when you see it?

2. Every loving thought that the Son of God ever had is eternal. ²The loving thoughts his mind perceives in this world are the world’s only reality. ³They are still perceptions, because he still believes that he is separate. ⁴Yet they are eternal because they are loving. ⁵And being loving they are like the Father, and therefore cannot die. ⁶The real world can actually be perceived. ⁷All that is necessary is a willingness to perceive nothing else. ⁸For if you perceive both good and evil, you are accepting both the false and the true and making no distinction between them.

3. The ego may see some good, but never only good. ²That is why its perceptions are so variable. ³It does not reject goodness entirely, for that you could not accept. ⁴But it always adds something that is not real to the real, thus confusing illusion and reality. ⁵For perceptions cannot be partly true. ⁶If you believe in truth and illusion, you cannot tell which is true. ⁷To establish your personal autonomy you tried to create unlike your Father, believing that what you made is capable of being unlike Him. ⁸Yet everything true is like Him. ⁹Perceiving only the real world will lead you to the real Heaven, because it will make you capable of understanding it.

4. The perception of goodness is not knowledge, but the denial of the opposite of goodness enables you to recognize a condition in which opposites do not exist. ²And this is the condition of knowledge. ³Without this awareness you have not met its conditions, and until you do you will not know it is yours already. ⁴You have made many ideas that you have placed between yourself and your Creator, and these beliefs are the world as you perceive it. ⁵Truth is not absent here, but it is obscure. ⁶You do not know the difference between what you have made and what God created, and so you do not know the difference between what you have made and what you have created. ⁷To believe that you can perceive the real world is to believe that you can know yourself. ⁸You can know God because it is His Will to be known. ⁹The real world is all that the Holy Spirit has saved for you out of what you have made, and to perceive only this is salvation, because it is the recognition that reality is only what is true. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/152#1:1-4:9 | T-11.VII.1:1–4:9)




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27986011 - 10/07/22 08:19 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

It hasn't been obvious to me - guilt doesn't seem to stand out so much among binding factors like, what, desire, illusoriness, obscuration, but guilt is driven in the course as primary. It is deeply seated, a largely hidden instrument of the ego. Release here is to say, to everyone, "you are guiltless; you are guiltless." This is said to be our only function on earth in reality. Guilt binds the separation; its release, the atonement.

I found in the waking state that guilt hides itself in the fact that we expect salvation here, in everything we do and plan, seeking refuge. With just a gentle acknowledgement of not seeking salvation here, like in drug use, co-dependence, anything, it was like a window was opened. Just enjoying things but not expecting something this world cannot provide. Guilt is directly associated with suffering in that aspect, guilt for seeking salvation here when salvation or freedom in reality is not needed as it is ours by origin.

Beyond typically identifiable dynamics, guilt seems imbeded. We enter the waking state often with a grumpy face (I do), not even knowing why, saying wtf, this sucks. Why? We guilt ourselves for the investment. I have no other choice but to buy whatever the world is giving under default charge of the ego. The chainlock is guilt and is easily picked in seeing we need not make such an investment. 

To say I am, you are, not guilty, is the same as admitting misunderstanding of ourselves in this world under the ego, and releasing it. It is the same as saying neti neti, not this, or the same as a liberating prayer, or that of a namaha mantra, not me, not mine. It is the same in effect as releasing obscurations and unhealthy desire. You are guiltless. I've been using it as somewhat of a mantra in the last couple of days, "guiltless, guiltess, ..." I was thinking that its use is as good as any psychedelic, for it does leave the condition of being able to see the finer worlds.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27986378 - 10/07/22 12:53 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Now that is an interesting take on guilt esp as it pertains to not seeking salvation here where it cannot be found, therefore strengthening the idea of separation. I had not quite thought of it that way.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27986727 - 10/07/22 05:16 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

It seems to me that often when is mentioned, attack, condemnation and the like it is referring to any notion of ourselves or others being confined to these bodies as allied with the ego. The body's true function given here is communication which is attuned to its use for correction. Further, sharing and communication, teaching, have been equated with thought, so we teach what we are, what we think.

Chapter 13 goes more into guilt. https://acim.org/acim/chapter-13/introduction/en/s/164

I'm looking for a passage that goes more directly into the nature of this world as essentially what sounded to me like a defense mechanism for the split mind.

Quote:

Chapter 13
The Guiltless World

Introduction

1. If you did not feel guilty you could not attack, for condemnation is the root of attack. ²It is the judgment of one mind by another as unworthy of love and deserving of punishment. ³But herein lies the split. ⁴For the mind that judges perceives itself as separate from the mind being judged, believing that by punishing another, it will escape punishment. ⁵All this is but the delusional attempt of the mind to deny itself, and escape the penalty of denial. ⁶It is not an attempt to relinquish denial, but to hold on to it. ⁷For it is guilt that has obscured the Father to you, and it is guilt that has driven you insane.

2. The acceptance of guilt into the mind of God’s Son was the beginning of the separation, as the acceptance of the Atonement is its end. ²The world you see is the delusional system of those made mad by guilt. ³Look carefully at this world, and you will realize that this is so. ⁴For this world is the symbol of punishment, and all the laws that seem to govern it are the laws of death. ⁵Children are born into it through pain and in pain. ⁶Their growth is attended by suffering, and they learn of sorrow and separation and death. ⁷Their minds seem to be trapped in their brain, and its powers to decline if their bodies are hurt. ⁸They seem to love, yet they desert and are deserted. ⁹They appear to lose what they love, perhaps the most insane belief of all. ¹⁰And their bodies wither and gasp and are laid in the ground, and are no more. ¹¹Not one of them but has thought that God is cruel.

3. If this were the real world, God would be cruel. ²For no Father could subject His children to this as the price of salvation and be loving. ³Love does not kill to save. ⁴If it did, attack would be salvation, and this is the ego’s interpretation, not God’s. ⁵Only the world of guilt could demand this, for only the guilty could conceive of it. ⁶Adam’s “sin” could have touched no one, had he not believed it was the Father Who drove him out of Paradise. ⁷For in that belief the knowledge of the Father was lost, since only those who do not understand Him could believe it.

4. This world is a picture of the crucifixion of God’s Son. ²And until you realize that God’s Son cannot be crucified, this is the world you will see. ³Yet you will not realize this until you accept the eternal fact that God’s Son is not guilty. ⁴He deserves only love because he has given only love. ⁵He cannot be condemned because he has never condemned. ⁶The Atonement is the final lesson he need learn, for it teaches him that, never having sinned, he has no need of salvation. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/164#1:1-4:6 | T-13.in.1:1–4:6)




Edited by syncro (10/07/22 05:22 PM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27987654 - 10/08/22 07:37 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

It reminds me of Nisargadatta speaking of his world having very little to do with the (questioner's) world, though they are visiting in the same room.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27989721 - 10/09/22 08:32 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I remembered a connection with guilt that has been touched on, but in that there is (along with the pleasant and neutral), suffering in the bodily states - suffering I think can equate with shame. When we suffer we are ashamed because we maintain it is our fault. Being faulted we have guilt. I am guilting me, but of course I project it - then you are guilting me, a predominant projection of the ego. Then we are warlike. Guilt seen as key to maintaining the separation.

We also guilt ourselves in trying to love, for we love in ways that are fearful, around the realm of opposites, ego, body. There are real reflections in our ways it reads, but I thought it funny saying that we love in ways that are fearful, because love and fear are said to be the only possibilities, and are mutually exclusive, and further, only one is real.


Edited by syncro (10/09/22 08:40 AM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27990219 - 10/09/22 01:34 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I think a large percentage of us humans "love" another almost solely, or at least to a large extent, out of the fear of being alone, whether we realize it or not.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #27991463 - 10/10/22 07:37 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

"⁹They appear to lose what they love, perhaps the most insane belief of all."


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27993145 - 10/11/22 04:38 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

We knew this, but going through the text again years later - it is having us give initiation, though it is not a beginning but a profound recognition of what is, covering past and future.

It is the way it works by law, apparently, and evidently, when we do something in this light, it is witnessed. It is empowered directly into the way in which we see ourselves. Your levity is the power of witness of the beings you bless, and yours theirs, and you see to that magnitude. It is an expansion, or remembrance of the nature of ourselves that is encompassing.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27993158 - 10/11/22 04:52 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

It is a profound recognition because it is not mine, and something I am not able to do in my condition, though the welcoming of it is free, and given to us.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27993184 - 10/11/22 05:55 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

It is an altar light that we become or hold and carry to others and thus see that they also are holding it, and our gratitude is the witness that grows, the witness of any form; joy, transmutation, exhilarant, completely still, dynamic and powerful.

Teachings are fractal in the sense that a line can contain the whole. Sometimes I am confused with the mass of teachings in remembering the right thing to say - that thing worked yesterday but I can't remember it exactly. But a child can form the whole of it, as in with something like, "I Am Love."

"³What holds remembrance of God cannot be bound by time. ⁴No more are you."


Edited by syncro (10/11/22 06:07 AM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #27993341 - 10/11/22 08:51 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

You are the one who provides succor, as one with the agents of God, to those whether in fear or in love, as the lonely and grieving are touched by the way that you form, like, "What God would have you be, what God would have you be, ..."

If not sure what God would have you be, read the course or other teachings, though is it self-evident that our inner nature is bliss-filled, free and guiltless. It is authentic because it is the immutable truth carried by the power of witness, and is the truth of oneness, already true.

Check the veiling power of separation, and the binding power of guilt, and wave them goodby as you see the fruit of that which you welcome to see through you.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28011161 - 10/22/22 06:43 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

That we consider ourselves different from one another, from the text, our only relevant error, "Your whole world rests upon it."

Quote:

You may be surprised to hear how very different is reality from what you see. ²You do not realize the magnitude of that one error. ³It was so vast and so completely incredible that from it a world of total unreality had to emerge. ⁴What else could come of it? ⁵Its fragmented aspects are fearful enough, as you begin to look at them. ⁶But nothing you have seen begins to show you the enormity of the original error, which seemed to cast you out of Heaven, to shatter knowledge into meaningless bits of disunited perceptions, and to force you to make further substitutions. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/219#5:1-6 | T-18.I.5:1-6)




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28011945 - 10/23/22 04:37 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

That quote sounds like the reversal of what we call the "mystical experience" where one's awareness expands until you become the entire living universe.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28011972 - 10/23/22 05:37 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Yes, and the bringing home that we are that, it our being, the universe. The potency of the hack is profound, simply a decision. But the decision has to be unequivocal. I was just reading there pointing out that we only choose some situations, and not every situation to give over, which means we continue to split, that we still doubt. It points gently and says it's ok because we have already asked for that which actually can bring us back. Again, that will is not thwarted, but not forceful. It is silent, patient.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28014868 - 10/24/22 07:52 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

trip report

Quote:

11. Everyone has experienced what he would call a sense of being transported beyond himself. ²This feeling of liberation far exceeds the dream of freedom sometimes hoped for in special relationships. ³It is a sense of actual escape from limitations. ⁴If you will consider what this “transportation” really entails, you will realize that it is a sudden unawareness of the body, and a joining of yourself and something else in which your mind enlarges to encompass it. ⁵It becomes part of you, as you unite with it. ⁶And both become whole, as neither is perceived as separate. ⁷What really happens is that you have given up the illusion of a limited awareness, and lost your fear of union. ⁸The love that instantly replaces it extends to what has freed you, and unites with it. ⁹And while this lasts you are not uncertain of your Identity, and would not limit It. ¹⁰You have escaped from fear to peace, asking no questions of reality, but merely accepting it. ¹¹You have accepted this instead of the body, and have let yourself be one with something beyond it, simply by not letting your mind be limited by it.

12. This can occur regardless of the physical distance that seems to be between you and what you join; of your respective positions in space; and of your differences in size and seeming quality. ²Time is not relevant; it can occur with something past, present or anticipated. ³The “something” can be anything and anywhere; a sound, a sight, a thought, a memory, and even a general idea without specific reference. ⁴Yet in every case, you join it without reservation because you love it, and would be with it. ⁵And so you rush to meet it, letting your limits melt away, suspending all the “laws” your body obeys and gently setting them aside.

13. There is no violence at all in this escape. ²The body is not attacked, but simply properly perceived. ³It does not limit you, merely because you would not have it so. ⁴You are not really “lifted out” of it; it cannot contain you. ⁵You go where you would be, gaining, not losing, a sense of Self. ⁶In these instants of release from physical restrictions, you experience much of what happens in the holy instant; the lifting of the barriers of time and space, the sudden experience of peace and joy, and, above all, the lack of awareness of the body, and of the questioning whether or not all this is possible.

14. It is possible because you want it. ²The sudden expansion of awareness that takes place with your desire for it is the irresistible appeal the holy instant holds. ³It calls to you to be yourself, within its safe embrace. ⁴There are the laws of limit lifted for you, to welcome you to openness of mind and freedom. ⁵Come to this place of refuge, where you can be yourself in peace. ⁶Not through destruction, not through a breaking out, but merely by a quiet melting in. ⁷For peace will join you there, simply because you have been willing to let go the limits you have placed upon love, and joined it where it is and where it led you, in answer to its gentle call to be at peace. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/224#11:1-14:7 | T-18.VI.11:1–14:7)




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28014931 - 10/24/22 08:25 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Cool, I got to the Little Garden section in 18 VIII (that in OP).


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28015345 - 10/25/22 02:10 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

That's a great quote above, I hadn't remembered it.  It really does sound like a trip report :lol:

I especially like the part:

Quote:

You go where you would be, gaining, not losing, a sense of Self




which is interesting because we always refer to it as ego loss/death; be he offers a different viewpoint in this statement.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28015376 - 10/25/22 03:12 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I think the idea ultimately is an attempt to find the 'true' self..


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28015388 - 10/25/22 03:31 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Yeah, it's a separation death. Beyond awareness of the body, we separate from separation.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28020476 - 10/27/22 10:22 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I just realized that the use of the term relationship includes that with ideas and qualities (more ideas). It came from this:

Quote:

12. It is impossible to seek for pleasure through the body and not find pain. ²It is essential that this relationship be understood, for it is one the ego sees as proof of sin. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/236#12:1-2 | T-19.IV-B.12:1-2) [emphasis added]




Often when is mentioned relationship, it is confusing to me to what it is being referred. It has already been said that we ourselves are ideas. Relationships are with ideas.

I may be taking the use out of context there, but nevertheless.


Edited by syncro (10/27/22 10:35 PM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28020757 - 10/28/22 05:57 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Considering relationships as with ideas, ourselves as ideas, the body left the mind for an instant or two. It was very normal.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28020780 - 10/28/22 06:32 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Wow, I was just washing a pot in the kitchen, and I realized THAT was relationship, a steel pot. Relationship is with ideas. Steel pot is an idea and because it is a relationship.

don't mind me :crazy2:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28020842 - 10/28/22 07:38 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

³The body can but serve your purpose. ⁴As you look on it, so will it seem to be. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/238#6:3-4 | T-19.IV-C.6:3-4)




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28020887 - 10/28/22 08:12 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I think "your relationship", means that with everything perceived.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28028613 - 11/01/22 08:15 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

It's going more on about minds are not separate. We don't have private thoughts? I don't think I hear others' generally, but also I feel everything I think is heard.

Quote:

⁸If you and your brother are joined, how could it be that you have private thoughts? ⁹And how could thoughts that enter into what but seems like yours alone have no effect at all on what is yours? ¹⁰If minds are joined, this is impossible.

3. No one can think but for himself, as God thinks not without His Son. ²Only were Both in bodies could this be. ³Nor could one mind think only for itself unless the body were the mind. ⁴For only bodies can be separate, and therefore unreal. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/257#2:8-3:4 | T-21.VI.2:8–3:4)




Edited by syncro (11/01/22 08:17 PM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28028623 - 11/01/22 08:22 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

5. The body does not separate you from your brother, and if you think it does you are insane. ²But madness has a purpose, and believes it also has the means to make its purpose real. ³To see the body as a barrier between what reason tells you must be joined must be insane. ⁴Nor could you see it, if you heard the voice of reason. ⁵What can there be that stands between what is continuous? ⁶And if there is nothing in between, how can what enters part be kept away from other parts? ⁷Reason would tell you this. ⁸But think what you must recognize, if it be so. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/257#5:1-8 | T-21.VI.5:1-8)




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28030771 - 11/03/22 07:38 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

It goes on to say that reason can be seen, and clarifies this is not a play on words; reason, the beginnings of vision, is a sense. That which is seen through the body's eyes being nothing at all, in the beginnings of sanity, then, is reason, vision, a sense beyond physical which we all have and know.


Edited by syncro (11/03/22 07:46 AM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28031044 - 11/03/22 11:43 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

He says we will have true vision, only briefly before no vision/perception is required as truth is just known when separation ends and all is one.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28031167 - 11/03/22 01:19 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

"And here do reason and the ego separate, to go their separate ways" for "it is not the body's sight." 22.3


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28052598 - 11/15/22 12:13 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

⁶To see a brother in another body, separate from yours, is the expression of a wish to see a little part of him and sacrifice the rest. ⁷Look at the world, and you will see nothing attached to anything beyond itself. ⁸All seeming entities can come a little nearer, or go a little farther off, but cannot join.

2. The world you see is based on “sacrifice” of oneness. ²It is a picture of complete disunity and total lack of joining. ³Around each entity is built a wall so seeming solid that it looks as if what is inside can never reach without, and what is out can never reach and join with what is locked away within the wall. ⁴Each part must sacrifice the other part, to keep itself complete. ⁵For if they joined each one would lose its own identity, and by their separation are their selves maintained.

3. The little that the body fences off becomes the self, preserved through sacrifice of all the rest. ²And all the rest must lose this little part, remaining incomplete to keep its own identity intact. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/295#1:6-3:2 | T-26.I.1:6–3:2)




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28053039 - 11/15/22 03:52 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I was just watching a video where she was speaking of that a bit... Worth the time to watch:



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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28053159 - 11/15/22 04:58 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

A lot connecting in that. I'm listening to more talks.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28053848 - 11/16/22 12:22 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I want to be whole..


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28053937 - 11/16/22 03:18 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

If the desire is true and we would give it to others, then we need do nothing else (from the course). Sometimes lately I have been in tune with that, that I have actually done what is required, offering everything to be seen in the ways that make for it, and that if there is anything that I am holding back, the request to make me aware.

But the difficult part is actually doing nothing. Therefore zen guys with sticks and stuff. I find I am needing to face integrity to get myself quiet and actually meditate.

But the realization that it is done without doubt, you are liberated as sure as you would give it to someone. That gave some moments of the exquisite though I fell back into the habitual.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28054035 - 11/16/22 06:51 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Speaking of the habitual, how's your quitting of nicotine going?  I'm on day 3 and it's not getting any easier :lol:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28054064 - 11/16/22 07:37 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I had to switch to a pipe just to get over the routine of the slim white cylinder. Pipes are horribly messy and that helped.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28054095 - 11/16/22 08:04 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I've switched between roll your own's to chew to e-cig to a real vape, even did use a pipe for a while way back. Never matters what form it all becomes extremely habitual for me.  Gotta cold turkey all forms, I'm 42 and I see now as the point where I give it up for good or get stuck for life.  I wanna be free...


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28054117 - 11/16/22 08:32 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Pipes best IMO. You gotta remove the filter and work at unclogging the thing and occasionally inhaling a lump of tar.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28054123 - 11/16/22 08:34 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I'm on day 14 I believe and still going! :crankey:

I was SO close to breaking yesterday - the lead was actually to get high. The two week mark I think is a pattern I've been running for a while. And then of course, if I get high, I'm going to do nicotine. But it held out, and I did practice this morning and earned my worthiness sticker. :crazy2:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28054176 - 11/16/22 09:07 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I think I remember reading about two weeks off of nicotine is an important time. Horrible thing to quit. But two weeks may be a good break out point. I'm thinking it should get easier especially if doing other things that are healthy.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28054184 - 11/16/22 09:11 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

It reminds me of the story of Gandhi involving two weeks. A woman asked Gandhi to tell her child to stop eating sugar. He said come back in two weeks. Then they returned and he advised the child. The woman asked why the two weeks, and he said he had to quit eating sugar himself. So two weeks is a standard of legitimate quitting of something.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28055612 - 11/17/22 03:59 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Awesome!  I got a ways to go but I'll hold out for that :smile:


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-------------------

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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28058024 - 11/18/22 10:29 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

An interesting concept that this creation is only a memory. IIRC there is similar in the Maharamayana.

Quote:

³Only in the past,—an ancient past, too short to make a world in answer to creation,—did this world appear to rise. ⁴So very long ago, for such a tiny interval of time, that not one note in Heaven’s song was missed. ⁵Yet in each unforgiving act or thought, in every judgment and in all belief in sin, is that one instant still called back, as if it could be made again in time. ⁶You keep an ancient memory before your eyes. ⁷And he who lives in memories alone is unaware of where he is. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/299#5:1-7 | T-26.V.5:1-7)




Words are somewhat redefined in this course. Sin means seeing others as in bodies, essentially. Not that the body is bad in itself. The body does nothing without mind. But sin is insubstantial because it is believing in nothing, forgivable because there is nothing to forgive. Yet it is an ally of the ego, the mindset of separation. Sin, as well as the terms, attack, murder, and so on in the course are the same thing - seeing fellow souls as bodies. My interpretations, except the sin insubstantial because it is nothing which I think is close to verbatim.

But if all is forgiven because there is nothing to forgive in reality, what of better and worse people, actions in this world? I had to struggle to offer darkness in that sense to the Spirit. Justice, again is redefined, as it is only and in all cases the infinite love and freedom.

So we can hear the response, what about evil people and actions here? Where we meet our actions karmically must be in the realm of ego then, or maya, which makes sense.

Other paths make God in the strictest sense, the law of karma. Then compassion, mitigation comes through approach, following teachings, love, ... which would not be inconsistent because as well those teachings consider the Godhead as not having much to do with this world. Separation, karma, are inconceivable in reality.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28058916 - 11/18/22 07:28 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

It tries to save you from the perils of having a body..

But by the end of the course you realize the body is only made for joy..


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28059515 - 11/19/22 06:21 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Covering last night where "ideas do not separate from their source," which is why this world of perception is considered upside down. The world is the effect of our ideas and not different from them. It kind of flickers in and out, the computer monitor, the external returning as one with the subject, mind. Excellent when happening with the body, it joining. If only, I sigh. Was also covering how we delay, seeing effects apart from causes, sacrificing ourselves to time.

I think I mentioned this before, but found years ago that contemplating object as one with subject can form the halo light around the head - the principle of unity radiates from the heart.

Going through the teaching, it can happen in flashes, where Ideation shows as comprehensive, meaning where there is nothing apart which can happen as mind only. It must be exclusive. Mind is one, or the way is shut.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28059533 - 11/19/22 06:40 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Join me, and regain your honor - what say you!

sorry, Aragorn stepped in. :lol: As I found myself at the gate of Dunharrow.


Edited by syncro (11/19/22 07:51 AM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28059640 - 11/19/22 08:01 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

In the chapter that is talking of delay:

Quote:

3. Whenever you consent to suffer pain, to be deprived, unfairly treated or in need of anything, you but accuse your brother of attack upon God’s Son (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/306#3:1 | T-27.I.3:1)




This is profound because to me it is hidden. I can't grasp it again right now. But in a moment of release I saw that it is because I thought an outside mind would want me to be delayed. It appeared as an elder sibling. These parental figures where we project guilt, ... It is essentially the thought that God would have us guilty, the essence of ego and fundamentalism, at least in a way of perhaps misinterpretation.


Edited by syncro (11/19/22 08:05 AM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28061197 - 11/20/22 06:53 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

This is Dolores Cannon saying we are not supposed to ever be sick.
https://twitter.com/thehealthb0t/status/1594314766947946502

I recently went through a part in the course addressing sickness similarly in the section, The Fear of Healing.

Yogis as well have said that we can be self-sufficient until the day we pass.


Edited by syncro (11/20/22 07:02 AM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28084316 - 12/05/22 07:27 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Not far from finishing, take two! Though these last chapters are not going quickly.

Quote:

Chapter 29

The Awakening

I. The Closing of the Gap

1. There is no time, no place, no state where God is absent. ²There is nothing to be feared. ³There is no way in which a gap could be conceived of in the Wholeness that is His. ⁴The compromise the least and littlest gap would represent in His eternal Love is quite impossible. ⁵For it would mean His Love could harbor just a hint of hate, His gentleness turn sometimes to attack, and His eternal patience sometimes fail. ⁶All this do you believe, when you perceive a gap between your brother and yourself. ⁷How could you trust Him, then? ⁸For He must be deceptive in His Love. ⁹Be wary, then; let Him not come too close, and leave a gap between you and His Love, through which you can escape if there be need for you to flee.

2. Here is the fear of God most plainly seen. ²For love _is_ treacherous to those who fear, since fear and hate can never be apart. ³No one who hates but is afraid of love, and therefore must he be afraid of God. ⁴Certain it is he knows not what love means. ⁵He fears to love and loves to hate, and so he thinks that love is fearful; hate is love. ⁶This is the consequence the little gap must bring to those who cherish it, and think that it is their salvation and their hope.

3. The fear of God! ²The greatest obstacle that peace must flow across has not yet gone. ³The rest are past, but this one still remains to block your path, and make the way to light seem dark and fearful, perilous and bleak. ⁴You had decided that your brother is your enemy. ⁵Sometimes a friend, perhaps, provided that your separate interests made your friendship possible a little while. ⁶But not without a gap perceived between you and him, lest he turn again into an enemy. ⁷Let him come close to you, and you jumped back; as you approached, did he but instantly withdraw. ⁸A cautious friendship, and limited in scope and carefully restricted in amount, became the treaty that you had made with him. ⁹Thus you and your brother but shared a qualified entente, in which a clause of separation was a point you both agreed to keep intact. ¹⁰And violating this was thought to be a breach of treaty not to be allowed.

4. The gap between you and your brother is not one of space between two separate bodies. ²And this but seems to be dividing off your separate minds. ³It is the symbol of a promise made to meet when you prefer, and separate till you and he elect to meet again. ⁴And then your bodies seem to get in touch, and thereby signify a meeting place to join. ⁵But always is it possible for you and him to go your separate ways. ⁶Conditional upon the “right” to separate will you and he agree to meet from time to time, and keep apart in intervals of separation, which do protect you from the “sacrifice” of love. ⁷The body saves you, for it gets away from total sacrifice and gives to you the time in which to build again your separate self, which you truly believe diminishes as you and your brother meet.

5. The body could not separate your mind from your brother’s unless you wanted it to be a cause of separation and of distance seen between you and him. ²Thus do you endow it with a power that lies not within itself. ³And herein lies its power over you. ⁴For now you think that it determines when your brother and you meet, and limits your ability to make communion with your brother’s mind. ⁵And now it tells you where to go and how to go there, what is feasible for you to undertake, and what you cannot do. ⁶It dictates what its health can tolerate, and what will tire it and make it sick. ⁷And its “inherent” weaknesses set up the limitations on what you would do, and keep your purpose limited and weak.

6. The body will accommodate to this, if you would have it so. ²It will allow but limited indulgences in “love,” with intervals of hatred in between. ³And it will take command of when to “love,” and when to shrink more safely into fear. ⁴It will be sick because you do not know what loving means. ⁵And so you must misuse each circumstance and everyone you meet, and see in them a purpose not your own.

7. It is not love that asks a sacrifice. ²But fear demands the sacrifice of love, for in love’s presence fear cannot abide. ³For hate to be maintained, love must be feared; and only sometimes present, sometimes gone. ⁴Thus is love seen as treacherous, because it seems to come and go uncertainly, and offer no stability to you. ⁵You do not see how limited and weak is your allegiance, and how frequently you have demanded that love go away, and leave you quietly alone in “peace.”

8. The body, innocent of goals, is your excuse for variable goals you hold, and force the body to maintain. ²You do not fear its weakness, but its lack of strength _or_ weakness. ³Would you know that nothing stands between you and your brother? ⁴Would you know there is no gap behind which you can hide? ⁵There is a shock that comes to those who learn their savior is their enemy no more. ⁶There is a wariness that is aroused by learning that the body is not real. ⁷And there are overtones of seeming fear around the happy message, “God is Love.”

9. Yet all that happens when the gap is gone is peace eternal. ²Nothing more than that, and nothing less. ³Without the fear of God, what could induce you to abandon Him? ⁴What toys or trinkets in the gap could serve to hold you back an instant from His Love? ⁵Would you allow the body to say “no” to Heaven’s calling, were you not afraid to find a loss of self in finding God? ⁶Yet can your self be lost by being found? (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/323#1:1-9:6 | T-29.I.1:1–9:6)




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28084591 - 12/05/22 10:51 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

"³There is no way in which a gap could be conceived of in the Wholeness that is His."

This goes the the discussion around the Gita as well, God not having any idea what we are doing either. :smile: They are in me, but I not in them, paraphrased.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28084905 - 12/05/22 03:54 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

The Gita as well speaks of that part, eh?  It's been so long since I've read it. 

Basically just saying that God doesn't see or acknowledge the separate selfs (ego) since it doesn't exist anyway, right?

That's a good passage btw...

Reminds me of how many times he repeats in the book, "God has ONE son", and how much importance lies in that single statement.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28085156 - 12/05/22 06:30 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Yeah. Some of it is hitting hard on the anti-body - this part shook me up today.

Quote:

7. The body does not change. ²It represents the larger dream that change is possible. ³To change is to attain a state unlike the one in which you found yourself before. ⁴There is no change in immortality, and Heaven knows it not. ⁵Yet here on earth it has a double purpose, for it can be made to teach opposing things. ⁶And they reflect the teacher who is teaching them. ⁷The body can appear to change with time, with sickness or with health, and with events that seem to alter it. ⁸Yet this but means the mind remains unchanged in its belief of what the purpose of the body is.

8. Sickness is a demand the body be a thing that it is not. ²Its nothingness is guarantee that it can _not_ be sick. ³In your demand that it be more than this lies the idea of sickness. ⁴For it asks that God be less than all He really is. ⁵What, then, becomes of you, for it is you of whom the sacrifice is asked? ⁶For He is told that part of Him belongs to Him no longer. ⁷He must sacrifice your self, and in His sacrifice are you made more and He is lessened by the loss of you. ⁸And what is gone from Him becomes your god, protecting you from being part of Him.

9. The body that is asked to be a god will be attacked, because its nothingness has not been recognized. ²And so it seems to be a thing with power in itself. ³As something, it can be perceived and thought to feel and act, and hold you in its grasp as prisoner to itself. ⁴And it can fail to be what you demanded that it be. ⁵And you will hate it for its littleness, unmindful that the failure does not lie in that it is not more than it should be, but only in your failure to perceive that it is nothing. ⁶Yet its nothingness is your salvation, from which you would flee. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/324#7:1-9:6 | T-29.II.7:1–9:6)




That we would flee the body if we could brought up emotion, but I suppose it's true as we like fleeing the body in sleep, and in a sense attempt to do so in every pleasure we seek, and every pain we avert.

As the waking state is where most any suffering occurs, I was paying attention today at the moment I would open my physical eyes to this world from a sleepy meditative state, there was some pain observed in it.

A helpful solution came to say, the body, its senses, do not limit me, or do not limit God. It's a good one to affirm for other souls.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28085329 - 12/05/22 08:02 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

The Sun is also a symbol of the soul.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28181720 - 02/11/23 03:54 AM (11 months, 10 days ago)

Thanks for directing me here Syncro, i'm so excited to find some other mushroom growers that are also interested in the course. How are you getting on with it?


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28181731 - 02/11/23 04:40 AM (11 months, 10 days ago)

I finished it for the second time a couple of months ago. I'm considering reading again or ongoing. I don't grow or take entheogens, though did do a smaller dose recently for the first time in many years. But mantra and teachings like this, sharing with like minds, are my shrooms. I find much in common with tantric practice and the way the community is with entheogens.

As for the course, it went silent when I finished, kind of meloncholy and drifting. I had a bit of a grumpy moment with Christ who was present in my mind - just stupid stuff, perceived conflict in focus with other practice, thoughts of unworthiness or not having accomplished as I should...

I did write this but had not posted.

12/15/22

I've finished the text - it's been a long time since the first read. I was considering what stood out or effected me differently than in the first. 

There is so much in the volume, but that we need actually do nothing I was hearing more, in releasing what we think we are, and that reflected in what we think others are, the truth fills in, never having been absent. Actually the principle exercise is to release what we think others are, this being the mechanism of our bondage and liberation. However we see others is what we see ourselves to be.

When given meditation, it is emphasized to be in the spirit of helping others, but the course drives this deeply, going to the core of what is the ego vs the Self. It is a dual influence of a sort, the Self-realization in meditative pursuits, and the Other-realization in such as the course, both the same, though one pushing, the other pulling as it were - the expulsion of ego nature, which is really nothing at all.

There is peace in accepting one's function. The question may be how we can liberate others without being first liberated ourselves, but the course reverses it and teaches that we must first offer it to others, seeing in them the liberated without which we could not be, and with, the completion of it. The bondage, ignorance, of ego is seeing ourselves as separated into bodies. The teaching is deeply involved in the binding aspects of guilt and hatred, largely underneath our awareness, that maintains the veil. It is not that we assume ourselves to have such capability, to liberate, in our condition, but exactly that we do not, acknowledging that we do not understand any purpose here, and giving it to that which is beyond.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28181767 - 02/11/23 05:52 AM (11 months, 10 days ago)

Hi Syncro, sorry to hear you've been having some trouble with thoughts of unworthiness. I can deeply relate to that feeling of not having accomplished what you "should". I often feel I need to be working harder with the course and feel I am as trapped in this bodily identity more than ever. Of course, that's how my ego likes me to see it, so I should really be patting myself on the back for a job well done!

Have you ever listened to Ken Wapnick's talks? He really encourages gentleness which really helps when the going gets tough. I can't tell you how much it's helped me.

I really enjoyed reading your summary of your latest reading of the course. It shows a real understanding of the metaphysics. I can't find anything I disagree with which might be a first for me lol


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28183505 - 02/12/23 07:40 AM (11 months, 8 days ago)

I listened to a bit of Wapnick when I was finding more about Helen Schucman. I tend to not be very gentle with myself regarding progress, though the Self has no judgement. Describes ego to a T I guess.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28183566 - 02/12/23 08:20 AM (11 months, 8 days ago)

I had an interesting experience yesterday with an associate of many years, the kind of relationship that can trigger into judgement and anger. She's perfect at pissing me off - we are old fellow meditators so have been through process together including raising and sharing each others' kids, etc. Anyway, so yesterday she pisses me off with her actions :lol: and afterward I'm considering - and I thought to see her as more evolved than less if that makes sense - to see her as a buddha or the like. When I acknowledged her more as a person of no rank, one that is free (the ten oxherding pictures), judgement left, the clinging left. Who am I to question her? These were my expectations of something - what use to put them on a mukta and interpret their actions? It reflected to me the teachings of the course profoundly.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28183642 - 02/12/23 09:12 AM (11 months, 8 days ago)

It leads to the considerations of what is meant by relationship in the course. In my interpretation, relationship must be meant to encompass all perception, not just that with people, though they are key in aspects. But we (I) carry judgements in everything, much in the conditions of the body. Again, what place do I have to judge perception(s) in light of wisdom teaching? Judgement is binding habit like guilt. Our bodies, all perceptions then, are entities of no rank that cannot be comprehended.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28189608 - 02/16/23 12:05 AM (11 months, 5 days ago)

Sounds like you were able to step back and see your friend without judgement for a bit.

So your friend is also on a spiritual path. I don't know if it's the same for you, but no-one annoys me in quite the same way as other 'spiritual' people. They're always "doing it wrong" or worse, trying to "help". All things I do myself though! I do that a lot less now but early on I was always trying to show people the way and point out the errors of their ways. So much happier to just love people for how they are - not blissfully ignore their errors mind, but see that they're on a path just like me and I make error all the time. Love doesn't sit and judge my errors so why should I sit and judge another's?


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28215116 - 03/04/23 11:05 PM (10 months, 19 days ago)

One can basically reduce this entire Course to that one phrase—the journey from mindlessness to mindfulness. That’s what it is—very, very simple. We go from the mindless, the body, back to the mind where we could choose again. But you have to realize, and this puts it in some kind of perspective, that the entire physical universe, the cosmos, this galaxy, all of the galaxy—the entire universe, not to mention the universe of our individual bodies—that whole thing was made as a defense against the mind. Because the ego tells us, in the mind you’ll be destroyed.



Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.

Specialness: “Simple Truth Suppressed”


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28215295 - 03/05/23 03:27 AM (10 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

tinymadidea said:
One can basically reduce this entire Course to that one phrase—the journey from mindlessness to mindfulness. That’s what it is—very, very simple. We go from the mindless, the body, back to the mind where we could choose again. But you have to realize, and this puts it in some kind of perspective, that the entire physical universe, the cosmos, this galaxy, all of the galaxy—the entire universe, not to mention the universe of our individual bodies—that whole thing was made as a defense against the mind. Because the ego tells us, in the mind you’ll be destroyed.



Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.

Specialness: “Simple Truth Suppressed”





I like the way it's put there, very simple and true.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28215361 - 03/05/23 06:13 AM (10 months, 19 days ago)

I'm looking for more in that source, Specialness: “Simple Truth Suppressed” - is it a book?


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28216748 - 03/06/23 12:30 AM (10 months, 18 days ago)

H
Quote:

syncro said:
I'm looking for more in that source, Specialness: “Simple Truth Suppressed” - is it a book?




I get these posted on FB from time to time but not too sure the original source of this one as I can't find "simple truth suppressed" when I search. I'll ask for where the quote came from.

EDIT
https://facimstore.org/products/the-quiet-center-through-specialness-to-love-cd?_pos=1&_sid=801ccfc5a&_ss=r

It looks as if it is part of this class called "The Quiet Centre". Not one i've listened to but it sounds interesting.


Edited by tinymadidea (03/06/23 12:49 AM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28216839 - 03/06/23 06:11 AM (10 months, 18 days ago)

Yesterday I would close my eyes and scroll the contents of the course to randomly pick a chapter, and the two times I did it went to the nature of this world related to that Wapnick quote, in essence that it is every loving thought composes the actual reality.

Ideally we can experience this here, but it goes again to what it is as OBE, NDE, or after passing. I had bookmarked, and I don't remember from when or where, a book called, Gone West: Three Narratives of After-Death Experiences. I have a feeling I found it around here somewhere. The similarity about thought caught my attention. (There are some misprints here and there in the pdf.) It is channeling from a relative who passed. This is describing an astral world that is very much like this one that's been talked about in other sources as well, which is of course, not the only nature over there but that close to this.

Quote:

“‘Where am I?’ I thought, and no sooner had the idea entered my mind, if indeed one
can use the word, than the ‘Shining One’ seemed to answer.
“‘You are in the land of After-Death. Are you surprised that there are trees and
animals here, and even grass? Know that here comes every thought which you have ever
thought; soon also you shall know that is so, to your sorrow; and, further, here come also
the spiritual forms of all that ever lived. Thus is our Spirit World built up and thus it
constantly increases. All that lives, no matter how humble it be, comes here of itself. All
thoughts come here. Hence you recognize many beauty spots you knew on earth. Hence
also the palm and the oak, and the orchid which you never saw.




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28216841 - 03/06/23 06:14 AM (10 months, 18 days ago)

I've brought up the question that it seems, and as we see in that quote, our negative thoughts and ignorances also remain and have power, and have to be dealt with somewhere, whereas Christ in the course says only the loving is real and remains and has reality. :shrug:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28217599 - 03/06/23 03:54 PM (10 months, 17 days ago)

Your posts remind me of the concept of chakravarti or wheel turning king. It's said that the Bodhisattvas are wielding the mudras for nonviolent chakravarti rule.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Kickle]
    #28217669 - 03/06/23 04:28 PM (10 months, 17 days ago)

That is good inspiration which I can use. One mudra for you!


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28218675 - 03/07/23 10:09 AM (10 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
I've brought up the question that it seems, and as we see in that quote, our negative thoughts and ignorances also remain and have power, and have to be dealt with somewhere, whereas Christ in the course says only the loving is real and remains and has reality. :shrug:




I don't know either but I feel like the negative thoughts are dealt with here in this experience, as our suffering, and have no further reality than that.  But maybe that's wishful thinking.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28220225 - 03/08/23 07:15 AM (10 months, 15 days ago)

More on thought from Gone West - here the soul was attending a class with a higher teacher.

Quote:

“Then I saw their master or instructor. What a difference! Not merely was he a well-
grown man, but he seemed to be made of light — light which filled the whole classroom
with a bright, soft glow. The bodies of the other boys looked grey, though some were
brighter than the others, and mine, I discovered, was the darkest of them all.
“Next moment I looked round for my guide, but he was gone. But the master took me
quietly by the hand and set me in a seat. Then began the most wonderful lesson I have
ever witnessed. His methods were entirely different to those of the ordinary schoolmaster.
He seemed to draw the knowledge out of the boys rather than attempt to tell them
anything. Most of the questions were quite unintelligible to me, though the others seemed
to understand them quite well. His method consisted in asking cleverly arranged
questions, and the answer to each led on to the next question.
“After a while he turned to me and said, ‘Would you like to ask me any questions?’
“‘How is it,’ I asked, ‘that everything looks so solid here, and, above all, how is it I
have a body? I thought I was a spirit.’
“He. ‘What do all human beings consist of?’
“H. J. L. Body and soul.
“He. ‘How would a scientist define these?’
“H. J. L. Matter and force.
“He. ‘Good. What happens to the matter when you die? Is it destroyed?’
“H. J. L. Matter can’t be destroyed. It merely changes its form. My body will rot and
become earth, and plants will grow out of it.
“He. ‘What of the force which made that body act?’
“H.J. L. It has come here. It is the spirit. It, too, cannot perish.
“He. ‘Neither the matter nor the force perish. Yet is the body on the earth the same as
when you lived?’
“H.J.L. No.
“He. ‘What makes it different? If you were to look at it now, wherein would it chiefly
differ?’
“H. J. L. Well, it would be losing its old shape. Its form would be different.
“He. ‘The form would have gone. If neither the matter nor the force perish, what
happens to the form? Can that perish?’
“H.J.L. I do not see why not.
“He. ‘What of the form of the thoughts which haunt you? Their form has not
perished. Why, then, should your form perish if theirs remains?’
“H. J. L. Yes; but I still exist who thought those forms, so someone must have
thought of me before I existed if I am like my thoughts. For I thought of them, and so they
came into existence.
“He. ‘Precisely. Someone must have thought of you. That person is God. He created
you by thought, and so, too, you create things by thought What lessons have you learnt?’
“H. J. L. That form, like matter and force, does not perish. Secondly, that, as God
created me by thinking of me, so I create forms by thinking of them.
“He. ‘And what answer can you deduce to your questions from these facts?’
“H. J. L. I suppose all that I see are forms, and being a form myself, they seem as
solid as myself. But why do I seem solid?
“He. ‘How could you seem otherwise? There is no matter here.’
“H. J. L. If I went back to the earth as I am, should I then appear to myself less
substantial?
“He. ‘Would you thereby become matter?’
“H. J. L. No. You mean unless one becomes matter one’s self, one would only seem
form and force, not matter.
“He. ’If a light is placed in the midst of a cloud of smoke, what would you see?’
“H. J. L. Why, of course, a light shining, through perhaps dimly, through smoke.

“He. ‘What is a flame?’
“H.J.L. Force.
“He. ‘Nothing more?’
“H. J. L. It of course has a form.
“He. ‘What is the smoke?’
“H. J. L. Matter and form.
“He. Does this not answer your question?
“H. J. L. You mean I should see the spirit form shining through the material form as a
candle does through smoke or fog?
“He. ‘Yes.’
“H. J. L. Having left matter behind, shall I ultimately also leave behind form?
“As I spoke these words, a terrible stillness seemed to fill the room. All the other boys
leant forward expectantly.
“He. ‘You have asked a question which I at any rate cannot fully answer. But this I
can tell you —that we do leave behind the present form on rising to the next realm. What
happens none of us here knows. We cannot see beyond the wall of fire any more than
mortal eyes can penetrate the veil of death. The Great Messengers may know, but we who
do but come from the highest divisions of this realm know not. You still wish to ask a
question?’
“H. J. L. We who are created by God look to Him for help and consider Him
responsible for our well-being. Are we also responsible for the forms we create?
“Again the silence that could be felt brooded over the room.
“He. ‘You ask wise questions, though so young. What happened to you after you had
spoken awhile with your guide?’
“H. J. L. I told him of the hideous nightmare which had seized me, and how, it sorted
itself into order when I prayed.
“He. ‘Does this not answer your question in part? Did not your thoughts claim you?’
“H. J. L. I bowed my head in shame and sat silent.
“He. ‘But your question means more than that. Speak on.‘
“H. J. L. But my thoughts cannot create fresh thoughts, as I can.
“He. ‘Directly no, but what of indirectly?’
“H. J. L. How can they even indirectly?
“He. ‘In the material world an evil act is done.
Are there none who copy that evil act?’
“H. J. L. That is so, of course. But surely things are different here?
“He. ‘Tell him the answer to that.’
“One of the boys then spoke as follows: —
“Nothing exists on earth which has not its counter-part here. We see this in the trees
and birds and buildings, as also in many other things. But all things here lack crude
matter.”
“H. J. L. ‘But do their evil thoughts here influence others to evil?’
“He. ‘When on earth did you never notice that two men, or even more, each working
independently, even separated from each other by thousands of miles, at the same
moment make the same discovery?’
“H. J. L. ‘Yes, often, but put it down to coincidence.
“He. ‘There is no such thing as coincidence. That word is merely a cloak employed
by men to disguise the fact that they are ignorant of some of the fundamental laws of
God.’
“‘Again, have you never seen how an idea win continue for ages to influence
mankind, though all who knew its origin have passed away?’
“‘Have you never seen how such an idea, though forgotten in its original home, will
yet reappear somewhere else without any known connection having taken place?’

“H. J. L. Then, once created, a thought may go on creating fresh thoughts?
“He. ‘Yes; but only such as relate to it. It could not create a fresh thought on an
entirely different subject.’
“H. J. L. But a man can. Why, then, is it different? He may at one time create a cruel
thought which will go on influencing others to do cruel deeds, yet at the next moment he
may create a thought of kindness which others will develop into much that is good. Why
this difference?
“He. ‘Of what does a man consist?’
“H. J. L. Matter, form, force.
“He. ‘Of what does a thought, once created, consist?’
“H. J. L. I suppose form only.
“He. ‘You are answered.’
“H. J. L. Ah, then it is the presence of what you call force. What is force?
“He. ‘Some say force is God, and some that force and matter are God, and some that
force and matter are the same, and it is this that is God. Can man create either?’
“H. J. L. I suppose he creates only forms.
“He. ‘Are you not, then, answered?’
“H. J. L. I don’t see quite how it answers my original question, namely, why we can
create variant thoughts when our own thoughts cannot.’
“He. ‘God creates you; you create your thought: your thought influences others.’
“Your thought’s action is bounded by the thought that created it; your actions are
bounded by the force which actuates you. God is bounded by nothing.
“H.J.L. I see it all. I cannot think about that of which I have no knowledge. But God
is knowledge.
“He. ‘God is all in all. You have learnt your first lessons. Now go for recreation, all
of you.’




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28221813 - 03/09/23 06:06 AM (10 months, 15 days ago)

Entertaining the thought that God did not create this world as we perceive. I don't think it's worth it to hold different arguments in effect of division, but if thinking about it to explore further.

We see that things have limitations within their realm, or thought which created them, or at least the kinds of thoughts we make in separation. It is the same as in the Law of Polarity which only works with "like opposites." (I see this is beyond me to elucidate.)

A confusion in the line of thought I'm trying to talk about is the question of can we create like God. Aligned with God I think we do, which is a whole other thing, but no, "we" can't. Meaning the implications that thought is limited to it's form, like a pear tree will not fruit apples.

to be continued


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28223229 - 03/10/23 03:33 AM (10 months, 14 days ago)

Anyway, I was trying to consider it around that our thoughts cannot create fresh thoughts as said in the classroom discussion above; they cannot create life then.

If we say that God did not create this world as we perceive then is is easier to agree. But the implication goes further; did we or I manifest this world before me? It would be by an agreement or consensus and the implication is such is the power of our mind.

If working to free ourselves from separation in mind as instructed in the course, then it is glimpsed that everything becomes translucent and of light nature. As said above, the afterworld is also here, not somewhere else.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28223277 - 03/10/23 05:21 AM (10 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:


A confusion in the line of thought I'm trying to talk about is the question of can we create like God. Aligned with God I think we do, which is a whole other thing, but no, "we" can't. Meaning the implications that thought is limited to it's form, like a pear tree will not fruit apples.







Nice example.
When Luigi picks up a power-ring it's his instincts that get a boost


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28223284 - 03/10/23 05:37 AM (10 months, 14 days ago)

Should Rasputin have headed to a Monastery, that is the question.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28223295 - 03/10/23 05:50 AM (10 months, 14 days ago)

It can be useful to identify or form principles that are fruitful. In the law that everything is mental, or mind, I started identifying for myself a thought principle. It clarifies the distinction of the split mind, and the proactive. Typical split mind of the ego is I and other, that which is not mind. The power-ring of the thought principle is that thought or mind is our creation and is inclusive, or it is the totality of our creation and experience.

It is impossible here, thus the theme in the invocative of making the impossible, possible. Or it is simply unification of mind which occurs.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28223305 - 03/10/23 05:59 AM (10 months, 14 days ago)

AI
Quote:

Rasputin was controversial for several reasons. Firstly, he gained a reputation for his unconventional behavior, which included heavy drinking, womanizing, and disregard for social norms. Secondly, he was accused of using his influence over the royal family for personal gain, leading to rumors of corruption and political manipulation. Additionally, his perceived spiritual abilities and close relationship with the royal family caused concern among some members of the Russian Orthodox Church and other powerful figures in Russian society, who saw him as a threat to traditional values and the stability of the empire. Finally, his murder in 1916 by a group of aristocrats fueled speculation and conspiracy theories about his true intentions and the motives behind his assassination.




I was thinking this morning that I no longer see extended family as much or am not as social because I can no longer drink.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28224653 - 03/11/23 03:34 AM (10 months, 13 days ago)

I know that is symptomatic of all things growing up. It seems often the challenge is not so much in finding a path of mukti (liberation), but bhukti, happiness here, enrichment from which in finding it in sources that are suitable.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28224718 - 03/11/23 06:13 AM (10 months, 13 days ago)

A meditation tells me that everything flows towards corruption even under a fresh coat of paint. The happiness of the corruptors is seen in the loam in the woods. Life reaching for a piece of sun before falling back to earth. Happiness then in both the climb and the fall in the third person might be the pursuit of metaphor in the hopes of a box-office smash. (I climb into my Darth Vader suit)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28224744 - 03/11/23 06:52 AM (10 months, 13 days ago)

Luke, I am your father. :evil:

Well, the lesson I was learning was that bhukti mukti where successful is named in same wellspring, that which corruptors can only see from afar. The gatherer falls back for a while; the spring remains pristine.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28228931 - 03/14/23 06:55 AM (10 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Yesterday I would close my eyes and scroll the contents of the course to randomly pick a chapter, and the two times I did it went to the nature of this world related to that Wapnick quote, in essence that it is every loving thought composes the actual reality.




I think this is the way that the course uses language inconsistently and it is important not to take this too literally. Heaven is perfect oneness and so there are no thoughts at all (which are a feature of our separated state), but the idea of that is likely quite terrifying and so Jesus presents it to us in a way that we can understand. It's always worth just keeping that in mind when reading passages like this. They're more like poetry than literal descriptions. Ken discusses this widely as it seems to be a common stumbling block for people (myself included).

Thoughts as we are aware of them are all unreal, including the ego's thoughts and the Holy Spirit's thoughts. In the same way that the world is unreal, anything that we are aware of as separate from us, including thoughts, light and energy are equally unreal.


[Quote]
Ideally we can experience this here, but it goes again to what it is as OBE, NDE, or after passing.
[/Quote]

The Course's goal is that we bring the experience of peace into our awareness now, and awaken to our true reality as soon as we are ready to. The reason we don't awaken is that we don't want to, and are too wrapped up in our investment as separated sons. So the process means bringing any thoughts that are reflective of our bodily identity to the loving presence within our own minds. Over time the fear of love will subside and we will become aware of what we really are.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28229002 - 03/14/23 08:19 AM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Refreshing my memory:

Quote:

2. Every loving thought that the Son of God ever had is eternal. ²The loving thoughts his mind perceives in this world are the world’s only reality. ³They are still perceptions, because he still believes that he is separate. ⁴Yet they are eternal because they are loving. ⁵And being loving they are like the Father, and therefore cannot die. ⁶The real world can actually be perceived. ⁷All that is necessary is a willingness to perceive nothing else. ⁸For if you perceive both good and evil, you are accepting both the false and the true and making no distinction between them. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/152#2:1-8 | T-11.VII.2:1-8)






Edited by syncro (03/14/23 08:47 AM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28233089 - 03/17/23 12:55 AM (10 months, 7 days ago)

Q: If you are really ready to give up the ego and the world and ready to give up everything associated with it, whatever that means, even if that means you die or you disappear or whatever, how do you go about doing that? I sit and meditate with the words every day and go to that centered place. There is a part of me that feels like I could just sit there and say the words and never do anything else. But I almost don’t want to do anything else because it takes me away from that. How do you do this?

K: I think the best way for you first is to stop meditating.

Q: I’m not saying meditating. I’m saying just kind of go to the centered place.

Stop that. Don’t do any of that. That’s the worst thing you could do. Okay? What you want to do is you want to stay firmly rooted in the world and whatever it is that turns you on or turns you off in the world—focus on that. And don’t allow yourself to run away from it. Because that’s what you want to bring to that quiet center. You don’t want to go to the quiet center with empty hands. You want to go to that quiet center with all of the angst, all of the anguish, all of the anger, all of the conflict, all of the disappointment, all of the pleasure, all of the expectation, all of the hatred, all of the judgment, all of the conflict, all of the blahblahblah. That’s what you want to bring to the quiet center. That’s what’s missing. And that’s the Alternative. I mean this is very, very simple.

Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.
The Meaning of Sacrifice


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28233112 - 03/17/23 01:55 AM (10 months, 7 days ago)

Interesting.  I've gotta check out some of Ken's stuff...

Still reading Gone West atm.  I love channeled material.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28233880 - 03/17/23 03:06 PM (10 months, 6 days ago)

I'm glad you mentioned Gone West again - I got a bit bored and fell off when they were covering architectures and such related in the worlds, but right after that it's getting good - I peaked ahead too and it looks like some heavy stuff from the officer.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28236231 - 03/19/23 10:03 AM (10 months, 4 days ago)

Now I can't find the Gone West bookmark, disappearing as mysteriously as it being there. I could have put it somewhere else and forgot. But I found the motherload of such free downloads on that site, https://www.ghostcircle.com/free-ebooks/, including another one from JSM Ward, oh it's a sequel to Gone West, A Subaltern in Spirit Land


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28237545 - 03/20/23 01:42 AM (10 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Interesting.  I've gotta check out some of Ken's stuff...

Still reading Gone West atm.  I love channeled material.




I'll post some of Ken's stuff here from time to time. Enjoy Gone West


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28237690 - 03/20/23 07:55 AM (10 months, 4 days ago)

Every story is a metaphor around a germ of truth I believe. Discerning what may be the germ encloaked in what otherwise seems to be uncoordinated flights of fancy provides an opportunity for me to develop patience while navigating thru what can amount to a lot of twaddle.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28241065 - 03/22/23 10:38 AM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Every story is a metaphor around a germ of truth I believe. Discerning what may be the germ encloaked in what otherwise seems to be uncoordinated flights of fancy provides an opportunity for me to develop patience while navigating thru what can amount to a lot of twaddle.




I agree with most of that I think. Battling with the "twaddle" is often where the growth happens, I've found.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28241152 - 03/22/23 11:26 AM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

tinymadidea said:
Battling with the "twaddle" is often where the growth happens, I've found.




I suppose intelligence is a measure of growth.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28241409 - 03/22/23 01:24 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28241476 - 03/22/23 02:03 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

No, really I do twaddle a disservice for every nuance gives insight into it's creation, the intrigued peruser is blessed with nimble distraction.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28241501 - 03/22/23 02:18 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

And no one will take your joy from you.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28252433 - 03/29/23 03:54 AM (9 months, 26 days ago)

We are talking about the recognition of seeing how absolutely selfish and self-centered we are. Just look at that without wanting to change it, and without calling it all kinds of dirty words. “This is awful, this is terrible, this isn’t spiritual, etcetera.” Just say, “Yes, that’s what I’m doing and I’m doing it because I only care about myself and that’s what the ego is. And I see that in everybody else, but it’s not going to make me happy.”

You can’t force this on yourself because there’s a part of you that still wants that and feels happy because you get what you want. If you try to change it you’re building conflict and reinforcing conflict into the very thought system you’re trying to undo. Because the conflict is, “Obviously, I’m self-centered and selfish because I want to be.” Therefore changing it is putting myself in conflict with myself.

So, what you want to do is you want to examine the basic premise without trying to do anything about it. But examine the basic premise that says, “I will be the happiest when I’m the most selfish.” As long as you believe that’s what makes you happy, don’t change it. Just say, “Well, obviously I still believe that and that’s okay. It doesn’t make me a bad person, it doesn’t make me evil, but it will also not make me happy. But as long as I think it will make me happy then I just have to wait until I realize it won’t make me happy.” That’s very, very important because if you attack your ego and try to change it then you’re making it real.

Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.
Saving the World


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28255903 - 03/31/23 09:06 AM (9 months, 23 days ago)

A question was asked in the ethical dilemma thread in the forum above, "could I be allowing these presences that haunt me into your lives via interacting with you guys/gals online?"

It would seem a common question in some way or another, and I remember it was addressed at least briefly in the course and was wondering if anyone remembered. It was something like although minds are shared, the Sonship, which is all of us, is not effected by ignorances, negativities, but the why is not clear. I suppose it is because the oneness of the true mind only is so because it is sane, and wouldn't be as such if it held our insanities. Maybe it is the mind beyond the "wall of fire" referred to in Gone West, where the spirits go beyond any form identification, as it were.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28257519 - 04/01/23 11:26 AM (9 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
A question was asked in the ethical dilemma thread in the forum above, "could I be allowing these presences that haunt me into your lives via interacting with you guys/gals online?"

It would seem a common question in some way or another, and I remember it was addressed at least briefly in the course and was wondering if anyone remembered. It was something like although minds are shared, the Sonship, which is all of us, is not effected by ignorances, negativities, but the why is not clear. I suppose it is because the oneness of the true mind only is so because it is sane, and wouldn't be as such if it held our insanities. Maybe it is the mind beyond the "wall of fire" referred to in Gone West, where the spirits go beyond any form identification, as it were.




The important thing is always to bring it back to the mind. It's not what happens but what teacher you choose that dictates your experience. The Course is ONLY focused on the mind rather than what goes on here. That's what makes it so different from every other teaching. It doesn't differentiate between this plane, the astral plane, the spiritual plane: all are equally illusory.

So if someone passed on some entity, the temptation might be to get lost in the weeds, thinking there's something mystical about the whole thing rather than recognising that all it is is yet another temptation. The important thing from my experience would be to look for my own ego showing up in response to such an experience, which would involve some temptation to blame my loss of peace on what is happening, rather than recognising that my loss of peace is only (ever and always) down to my own decision to identify with the body.

Once I have identified with the Holy Spirit, I would realise that such an experience has no power to take away the peace of God from me. In that way, I am then identified with the part of the mind that is not affected by negativity and knows it is one with the whole Sonship.

I am not sure which passage you are referring to specifically are there are many with similar content, but here is one:

In reality you are perfectly unaffected by all expressions of lack of love. These can be from yourself and others, from yourself to others, or from others to you. Peace is an attribute in you. You cannot find it outside. (T-2.I.5. 6-9)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28261753 - 04/04/23 09:32 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Searching the text, mostly I am finding the opposite, that no thoughts are neutral and they do affect the all. It is a contradiction, but not in reality as mentioned. Miscreations are real in the mistaken or split mind. As well searching always brings other gems.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28331339 - 05/23/23 01:33 PM (8 months, 1 day ago)

After about 35 years of being involved with people and with this course, I can tell you that probably one of the most common mistakes, if not tragic mistakes that occur is when people really take the metaphysics of the Course and use it as a defense and really use it as a way of not dealing with these issues. They use this as a way of really becoming very insensitive to people’s pain and suffering, and yet feeling that somehow they’re being holy and spiritual and very good students of this course. It is really so important that you allow the ego to speak, because it’s already speaking. So making believe it doesn’t speak is not only silly, is very naïve. We would not be here in bodies and thinking we’re bodies if we did not believe what the ego says. So to quickly dismiss it or discount it and say it’s all an illusion really does not help. It’s really denial. And denial is not a spiritual principle.

Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.
“You Have What You Have Taken”


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28332087 - 05/24/23 05:24 AM (8 months, 1 day ago)

What is the context of this, what issues not being dealt with? I was trying to find the rest of the talk.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28332327 - 05/24/23 09:50 AM (8 months, 22 hours ago)

Hi Syncro, hope all is well with you. It's a general statement and not about any issues in particular. It is a call to be authentic.

Using myself as an example, I sometimes act spiritual so that it appears to myself and others that I am not angry or annoyed or frustrated (because that's not what spiritual people do). This is really common and it ends up sabotaging any genuine spiritual progress. Much better is to get in touch with the anger and ask for help with it than by pretending it doesn't exist.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28332528 - 05/24/23 12:48 PM (8 months, 19 hours ago)

It may be bit dichotomous because the anger/ego stuff does not exist per the course and the metaphysics are for their purpose, but I get the benefit of sharing and getting help.

I'm a little biased, being accused of spiritual bypassing, asserting more the metaphysics and practice over therapeutic process. My ex is a licensed therapist and went though the phase of everything must be put in therapy forever and ever, mine in needing to take the opposing view. :smile: I really don't discount therapy but stood accused.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28333295 - 05/24/23 08:43 PM (8 months, 11 hours ago)

I think posing is an honest phase in the great work..

Thereby analyzing and questioning the self and its actions.. and the actor of being.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28333916 - 05/25/23 10:39 AM (7 months, 30 days ago)

Yes ultimately the ego states don't exist but we will only really know that once we fully awaken from the dream of seperation. In the meantime though, as bodies, we certainly do believe in anger and the ego. It is important not to deny those things or we will end up sabbotaging the process whilst believing we are ascending.

It is a really easy trap to use the metaphysics to shout down the ego, but in reality this just makes it more real.

The next quote is in reference to the body but can equally be applied to the ego and ego-states such as anger, as they are really one and the same:

"However it is almost impossible to deny its (the body's) existence in the world. Those who do so are engaging in a aprticularly unworthy form of denial" T-2.IV.3.10-11

Ken often quotes the line of the course: "Anger is never justified", commenting that the course never says to not get angry, just that it is never justified.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28333920 - 05/25/23 10:40 AM (7 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
I think posing is an honest phase in the great work..

Thereby analyzing and questioning the self and its actions.. and the actor of being.




I can agree that it is a phase for most if not all, although I am not sure it can be characterised as being honest :smile:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28334310 - 05/25/23 02:54 PM (7 months, 30 days ago)

I had forgotten that quote. :thumbup:

Suppose we are going though the exercises or whatever practice; how do we tell the difference between the unworthy denial and successes? Writing the question it occurred to me that peace could be a standard.


Edited by syncro (05/25/23 02:55 PM)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28334763 - 05/25/23 09:09 PM (7 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

tinymadidea said:
Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
I think posing is an honest phase in the great work..

Thereby analyzing and questioning the self and its actions.. and the actor of being.




I can agree that it is a phase for most if not all, although I am not sure it can be characterised as being honest :smile:



I feel I'm finished most of my posing conjecture.. to be honest..


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28335534 - 05/26/23 12:28 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

My first thought was: "by being unreasonably suspicious" haha.

I think that expecting the deceptiveness (denial) of our own egos is part of the answer. Knowing that I am more likely to deceive myself than accept the answer is a big help because then I can look out for it.

In a way that's the difficulty of the whole course: trying to discern when I am choosing the ego or not (or when I am choosing denial or not). The right answer only comes from looking at the wrong one so if you're on the look out for your own ego then that's pretty good going. All this moves you towards humility: yes I am in my ego but Jesus is by my side. As soon as you can accept your choice for the ego and forgive yourself then you're there. You have to see yourself choosing your ego and be very gentle with yourself for doing so. That's when you are being successful at the course.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28336464 - 05/27/23 03:24 AM (7 months, 29 days ago)

To be honest if you want to win the course it will take sublime faith in God.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28336624 - 05/27/23 08:05 AM (7 months, 29 days ago)

I sort of quick picked a page, seeing ego in the index, and got a
good one.

Quote:

V. The “Dynamics” of the Ego

1. No one can escape from illusions unless he looks at them, for not looking is the way they are protected. ²There is no need to shrink from illusions, for they cannot be dangerous. ³We are ready to look more closely at the ego’s thought system because together we have the lamp that will dispel it, and since you realize you do not want it, you must be ready. ⁴Let us be very calm in doing this, for we are merely looking honestly for truth. ⁵The “dynamics” of the ego will be our lesson for a while, for we must look first at this to see beyond it, since you have made it real. ⁶We will undo this error quietly together, and then look beyond it to truth.




continued https://acim.org/acim/chapter-11/the-dynamics-of-the-ego/en/s/150


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28337170 - 05/27/23 04:03 PM (7 months, 28 days ago)

LOVE that passage, thank you :thumbup:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28337953 - 05/28/23 07:44 AM (7 months, 28 days ago)

It still seemed elusive what is the ego. I was thinking what is it, something said or certain behaviors? No, imo, it must be the whole body-mind system, even beyond as it is the premise. There are two makers of this world is said, and all is very well in releasing false premise. Clarified is that we hold to the premise of isolation (spiritual) because we fear it which is senseless. It is a subtle coercion.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28350585 - 06/07/23 08:21 AM (7 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
It still seemed elusive what is the ego. I was thinking what is it, something said or certain behaviors? No, imo, it must be the whole body-mind system




I have pondered this often, and ask myself (as it seems most thoughts are of the ego)  but is EVERY thought of the ego?  Loving thoughts toward others can't be, can they? Unconditional love certainly is not of the ego, so are loving thoughts (our true creations) the only thoughts not of the ego?  It would seem.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28351767 - 06/08/23 08:12 AM (7 months, 17 days ago)

Seems good. The substance of unity, therefore of reality, is joy or appreciation. This is consistent as ananda, bliss. It cannot be both real and not be shared.

Perhaps ego is anything that doesn't see appreciation. This in reality could not be.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28357937 - 06/13/23 05:04 AM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Reading this again was harsh, but lifted the burden in trying to accept. It didn't even take away the forms of the idols but puts them in light.


Quote:

Seek Not Outside Yourself


1. Seek not outside yourself. ²For it will fail, and you will weep each time an idol falls. ³Heaven cannot be found where it is not, and there can be no peace excepting there. ⁴Each idol that you worship when God calls will never answer in His place. ⁵There is no other answer you can substitute, and find the happiness His answer brings. ⁶Seek not outside yourself. ⁷For all your pain comes simply from a futile search for what you want, insisting where it must be found. ⁸What if it is not there? ⁹Do you prefer that you be right or happy? ¹⁰Be you glad that you are told where happiness abides, and seek no longer elsewhere. ¹¹You will fail. ¹²But it is given you to know the truth, and not to seek for it outside yourself.

2. No one who comes here but must still have hope, some lingering illusion, or some dream that there is something outside of himself that will bring happiness and peace to him. ²If everything is in him this cannot be so. ³And therefore by his coming, he denies the truth about himself, and seeks for something more than everything, as if a part of it were separated off and found where all the rest of it is not. ⁴This is the purpose he bestows upon the body; that it seek for what he lacks, and give him what would make himself complete. ⁵And thus he wanders aimlessly about, in search of something that he cannot find, believing that he is what he is not.

3. The lingering illusion will impel him to seek out a thousand idols, and to seek beyond them for a thousand more. ²And each will fail him, all excepting one; for he will die, and does not understand the idol that he seeks _is_ but his death. ³Its form appears to be outside himself. ⁴Yet does he seek to kill God’s Son within, and prove that he is victor over him. ⁵This is the purpose every idol has, for this the role that is assigned to it, and this the role that cannot be fulfilled.

4. Whenever you attempt to reach a goal in which the body’s betterment is cast as major beneficiary, you try to bring about your death. ²For you believe that you can suffer lack, and lack _is_ death. ³To sacrifice is to give up, and thus to be without and to have suffered loss. ⁴And by this giving up is life renounced. ⁵Seek not outside yourself. ⁶The search implies you are not whole within and fear to look upon your devastation, but prefer to seek outside yourself for what you are.

5. Idols must fall _because_ they have no life, and what is lifeless is a sign of death. ²You came to die, and what would you expect but to perceive the signs of death you seek? ³No sadness and no suffering proclaim a message other than an idol found that represents a parody of life which, in its lifelessness, is really death, conceived as real and given living form. ⁴Yet each must fail and crumble and decay, because a form of death cannot be life, and what is sacrificed cannot be whole.

6. All idols of this world were made to keep the truth within from being known to you, and to maintain allegiance to the dream that you must find what is outside yourself to be complete and happy. ²It is vain to worship idols in the hope of peace. ³God dwells within, and your completion lies in Him. ⁴No idol takes His place. ⁵Look not to idols. ⁶Do not seek outside yourself.

7. Let us forget the purpose of the world the past has given it. ²For otherwise, the future will be like the past, and but a series of depressing dreams, in which all idols fail you, one by one, and you see death and disappointment everywhere.

8. To change all this, and open up a road of hope and of release in what appeared to be an endless circle of despair, you need but to decide you do not know the purpose of the world. ²You give it goals it does not have, and thus do you decide what it is for. ³You try to see in it a place of idols found outside yourself, with power to make complete what is within by splitting what you are between the two. ⁴You choose your dreams, for they are what you wish, perceived as if it had been given you. ⁵Your idols do what you would have them do, and have the power you ascribe to them. ⁶And you pursue them vainly in the dream, because you want their power as your own.

9. Yet where are dreams but in a mind asleep? ²And can a dream succeed in making real the picture it projects outside itself? ³Save time, my brother; learn what time is for. ⁴And speed the end of idols in a world made sad and sick by seeing idols there. ⁵Your holy mind is altar unto God, and where He is no idols can abide. ⁶The fear of God is but the fear of loss of idols. ⁷It is not the fear of loss of your reality. ⁸But you have made of your reality an idol, which you must protect against the light of truth. ⁹And all the world becomes the means by which this idol can be saved. ¹⁰Salvation thus appears to threaten life and offer death.

10. It is not so. ²Salvation seeks to prove there is no death, and only life exists. ³The sacrifice of death is nothing lost. ⁴An idol cannot take the place of God. ⁵Let Him remind you of His Love for you, and do not seek to drown His Voice in chants of deep despair to idols of yourself. ⁶Seek not outside your Father for your hope. ⁷For hope of happiness is _not_ despair. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/329#1:1-10:7 | T-29.VII.1:1–10:7)




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28358086 - 06/13/23 08:29 AM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Gotta say, in my interpretation, idols are not items and images etc used for remembrance. These are not the problem.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28368391 - 06/21/23 08:23 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

tinymadidea said:
After about 35 years of being involved with people and with this course, I can tell you that probably one of the most common mistakes, if not tragic mistakes that occur is when people really take the metaphysics of the Course and use it as a defense and really use it as a way of not dealing with these issues. They use this as a way of really becoming very insensitive to people’s pain and suffering, and yet feeling that somehow they’re being holy and spiritual and very good students of this course. It is really so important that you allow the ego to speak, because it’s already speaking. So making believe it doesn’t speak is not only silly, is very naïve. We would not be here in bodies and thinking we’re bodies if we did not believe what the ego says. So to quickly dismiss it or discount it and say it’s all an illusion really does not help. It’s really denial. And denial is not a spiritual principle.

Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.
“You Have What You Have Taken”




This is a currently a major issue in all discussions surrounding nondual philosophies. The popularity of self-described "uncompromising" nondual teachers mean that someone coming off a psychedelic experience of oceanic boundlessness may start searching youtube and latch on to a nihilistic, solipsistic metaphysics that encourages spiritual bypassing and total distrust of traditional wisdom texts. Without intentional shadow work or purgation of some sort, it's just a subconscious time bomb.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28369010 - 06/21/23 03:49 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Gotta say, in my interpretation, idols are not items and images etc used for remembrance. These are not the problem.




Not at all I agree, but what would you say they are?  I think anything one desires really.  For most of my life it's been mind altering substances of many sorts, seeking outside myself that which I felt a lack of.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28369099 - 06/21/23 05:13 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Yes, that without which would imply lack it seems. I reread a lot of the thread this morning, came back now and was looking for something about the counterintuitive in being separate minds, but the first few Ps of the OP address it well. The whole post is worth a reread. Just awesome.

"Like to the sun and ocean your Self continues, unmindful that this tiny part regards itself as you."

We consider ourselves this tiny part, and our idols are essentially each other, when regarding the same, and things to play this sad game of limitation.

"Do not accept this little, fenced-off aspect as yourself. The sun and ocean are as nothing beside what you are."
:oldman:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28372649 - 06/24/23 12:10 PM (7 months, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

syncro said:
It still seemed elusive what is the ego. I was thinking what is it, something said or certain behaviors? No, imo, it must be the whole body-mind system




I have pondered this often, and ask myself (as it seems most thoughts are of the ego)  but is EVERY thought of the ego?  Loving thoughts toward others can't be, can they? Unconditional love certainly is not of the ego, so are loving thoughts (our true creations) the only thoughts not of the ego?  It would seem.




There are the two levels to bear in mind. On the one hand, everything that we know and experience is ego. Anything we are conscious of is dualistic and therefore not Oneness and therefore not of God. Basically everything we experience is illusory:

T3.IV.2.1-2
Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego


That being said, once we find ourselves within the world as a seperated self we can make a choice for something that reflects the Oneness of Christ. The only way we can do that is to undo the ego:
1. Realise we (as a decision making mind and NOT a body) have chosen the ego and accept 100% responsibility for that choice
2. Ask for the part of our minds that remembers God to help us to choose again
3. Be very kind with ourselves for not being able to do this for a lot of the time (This step is very important)

The big mistake is to make a positive choice for love. It's completely understandable and would seem very noble but we can't get there without first seeing that we choose the ego. We MUST go through the darkness of the ego to get to the light. Anything else is false light.

Forrester, the vast majority of thoughts we have reflect the ego: not surprising as this is the ego's world. Watching the ego, without judgement, reflects the thought of love. Loving thoughts come the more time you spend watching the ego with Love next to you. It's basically mindfulness. The Course leads you to an understanding of why to be mindful. I think it saves time because it helps you to avoid lots of ego pitfalls.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28372662 - 06/24/23 12:16 PM (7 months, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

syncro said:
Gotta say, in my interpretation, idols are not items and images etc used for remembrance. These are not the problem.




Not at all I agree, but what would you say they are?  I think anything one desires really.  For most of my life it's been mind altering substances of many sorts, seeking outside myself that which I felt a lack of.




Yes an idol is anything used as a replacement for God. That includes the body, food, air, water, sex, drugs, money, spiritual teachings lol.

We are going to need idols, just like magic, to get by on our spiritual journey. The key is to see how all these things are a substitution for God's Love - a denial of the Everything which we already have.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: bubbleguts365]
    #28372696 - 06/24/23 12:36 PM (7 months, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

bubbleguts365 said:
Quote:

tinymadidea said:
After about 35 years of being involved with people and with this course, I can tell you that probably one of the most common mistakes, if not tragic mistakes that occur is when people really take the metaphysics of the Course and use it as a defense and really use it as a way of not dealing with these issues. They use this as a way of really becoming very insensitive to people’s pain and suffering, and yet feeling that somehow they’re being holy and spiritual and very good students of this course. It is really so important that you allow the ego to speak, because it’s already speaking. So making believe it doesn’t speak is not only silly, is very naïve. We would not be here in bodies and thinking we’re bodies if we did not believe what the ego says. So to quickly dismiss it or discount it and say it’s all an illusion really does not help. It’s really denial. And denial is not a spiritual principle.

Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.
“You Have What You Have Taken”




This is a currently a major issue in all discussions surrounding nondual philosophies. The popularity of self-described "uncompromising" nondual teachers mean that someone coming off a psychedelic experience of oceanic boundlessness may start searching youtube and latch on to a nihilistic, solipsistic metaphysics that encourages spiritual bypassing and total distrust of traditional wisdom texts. Without intentional shadow work or purgation of some sort, it's just a subconscious time bomb.




I honestly see so much denial going on in all spiritual discussions I've seen lately. I don't spend too much time on them because it doesn't seem like anyone is really serious about doing "the work". Although as I say this I feel like a hypocrite because I can delude myself very easily!


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea] * 1
    #28372715 - 06/24/23 12:51 PM (7 months, 19 hours ago)

T3.IV.2.1-2
Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego


This is interesting and I think it can be a common difference in use of the term consciousness, around Advaita and such, where consciousness can be equated with pure being, as in this case it is not.

If I recall correctly, Nisargadatta used consciousness to describe more as the dualistic perception, whereas Ramana Maharshi used it as pure being. It looks like Shankara uses consciousness as the self-illuminating absolute.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28375202 - 06/26/23 12:17 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

Hi Sycro,

I think I have heard the word consciousness being used in that way, although if I look up a definition, it definitely implies duality. I like the Course's statement of oneness or absolute truth being represented by the words "God is".

Wp1-169.5.1-4 Oneness is simply the idea God is. And in His being, He encompasses all things. No mind holds anything but Him. We say "God is", and then we cease to speak, for in that knowledge are words meaningless.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28375465 - 06/26/23 03:31 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

That says it all. Wonderful quote. "No mind holds anything but Him."

Perception, illusion, ego included then. Boggling.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28375612 - 06/26/23 05:32 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

In yoga speak then, there is nothing but turiya. Or, there is nothing but being, or, "nothing fails to cover the ground." (that's a Buddhist think)


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28377823 - 06/28/23 01:11 PM (6 months, 27 days ago)

The teaching, the mind is holy; I've been on about it today, in need of it. Can it be denied?

It's an interesting play to see the rebuttals within.

It doesn't have to be the word, holy, if not preferred, but should be an equivalent.


Edited by syncro (06/28/23 02:23 PM)


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28378653 - 06/29/23 06:45 AM (6 months, 27 days ago)

It's funny because holy sounds nice one might think, sublime, innocent. It also implies mind is in control of itself, and is whole. This is power. We are, say, half in control of mind, half not, kind of meh. Not if the mind is holy.


Edited by syncro (06/29/23 06:51 AM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea] * 1
    #28385558 - 07/05/23 03:13 AM (6 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

tinymadidea said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

syncro said:
It still seemed elusive what is the ego. I was thinking what is it, something said or certain behaviors? No, imo, it must be the whole body-mind system




I have pondered this often, and ask myself (as it seems most thoughts are of the ego)  but is EVERY thought of the ego?  Loving thoughts toward others can't be, can they? Unconditional love certainly is not of the ego, so are loving thoughts (our true creations) the only thoughts not of the ego?  It would seem.




There are the two levels to bear in mind. On the one hand, everything that we know and experience is ego. Anything we are conscious of is dualistic and therefore not Oneness and therefore not of God. Basically everything we experience is illusory:

T3.IV.2.1-2
Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego


That being said, once we find ourselves within the world as a seperated self we can make a choice for something that reflects the Oneness of Christ. The only way we can do that is to undo the ego:
1. Realise we (as a decision making mind and NOT a body) have chosen the ego and accept 100% responsibility for that choice
2. Ask for the part of our minds that remembers God to help us to choose again
3. Be very kind with ourselves for not being able to do this for a lot of the time (This step is very important)

The big mistake is to make a positive choice for love. It's completely understandable and would seem very noble but we can't get there without first seeing that we choose the ego. We MUST go through the darkness of the ego to get to the light. Anything else is false light.

Forrester, the vast majority of thoughts we have reflect the ego: not surprising as this is the ego's world. Watching the ego, without judgement, reflects the thought of love. Loving thoughts come the more time you spend watching the ego with Love next to you. It's basically mindfulness. The Course leads you to an understanding of why to be mindful. I think it saves time because it helps you to avoid lots of ego pitfalls.




Good way to put it, indeed mindfulness is key.  I've never been able to sit and meditate eastern style, I just don't think it's my path.  But I find everyday constant mindfulness (or at least an attempt), forgiveness, and non-judgement to be my form of meditation and it is helpful, I seem to progress in making it easier and more natural.  We see ourselves in our brothers and I find this true more and more as I forgive all I see, which there is much opportunity to do with the state of the world today.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28385563 - 07/05/23 03:22 AM (6 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
T3.IV.2.1-2
Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego


This is interesting and I think it can be a common difference in use of the term consciousness, around Advaita and such, where consciousness can be equated with pure being, as in this case it is not.

If I recall correctly, Nisargadatta used consciousness to describe more as the dualistic perception, whereas Ramana Maharshi used it as pure being. It looks like Shankara uses consciousness as the self-illuminating absolute.




This is an interesting point and seems paradoxical, but as hermeticism says, all truths are but half truths.

I want to feel like pure consciousness is non-dual, but I see how duality is implied.  If one is conscious, what is one conscious OF if not "other", although that's really more perception than consciousness.  I guess non dual consciousness would be the feeling of oneness with God but even the course often implies that God is a step above when it says "God takes the last step".


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28385814 - 07/05/23 10:24 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Awareness has the same dual implication. Being seems good which I think Christ would say goes all the way(?), though some say beyond being, or neither or, that dirty quadruple logic, or the fifth is good, ineffable.


Edited by syncro (07/05/23 01:13 PM)


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28385835 - 07/05/23 10:45 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

But I think being need not be dismissed to the ineffable. It's a good word. :smile:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28386530 - 07/05/23 11:36 PM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

tinymadidea said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

syncro said:
It still seemed elusive what is the ego. I was thinking what is it, something said or certain behaviors? No, imo, it must be the whole body-mind system




I have pondered this often, and ask myself (as it seems most thoughts are of the ego)  but is EVERY thought of the ego?  Loving thoughts toward others can't be, can they? Unconditional love certainly is not of the ego, so are loving thoughts (our true creations) the only thoughts not of the ego?  It would seem.




There are the two levels to bear in mind. On the one hand, everything that we know and experience is ego. Anything we are conscious of is dualistic and therefore not Oneness and therefore not of God. Basically everything we experience is illusory:

T3.IV.2.1-2
Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego


That being said, once we find ourselves within the world as a seperated self we can make a choice for something that reflects the Oneness of Christ. The only way we can do that is to undo the ego:
1. Realise we (as a decision making mind and NOT a body) have chosen the ego and accept 100% responsibility for that choice
2. Ask for the part of our minds that remembers God to help us to choose again
3. Be very kind with ourselves for not being able to do this for a lot of the time (This step is very important)

The big mistake is to make a positive choice for love. It's completely understandable and would seem very noble but we can't get there without first seeing that we choose the ego. We MUST go through the darkness of the ego to get to the light. Anything else is false light.

Forrester, the vast majority of thoughts we have reflect the ego: not surprising as this is the ego's world. Watching the ego, without judgement, reflects the thought of love. Loving thoughts come the more time you spend watching the ego with Love next to you. It's basically mindfulness. The Course leads you to an understanding of why to be mindful. I think it saves time because it helps you to avoid lots of ego pitfalls.




Good way to put it, indeed mindfulness is key.  I've never been able to sit and meditate eastern style, I just don't think it's my path.  But I find everyday constant mindfulness (or at least an attempt), forgiveness, and non-judgement to be my form of meditation and it is helpful, I seem to progress in making it easier and more natural.  We see ourselves in our brothers and I find this true more and more as I forgive all I see, which there is much opportunity to do with the state of the world today.




Pray at will?

:cross:


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28386722 - 07/06/23 04:56 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Reminds me of in the course that it was said the various paths will fulfill the goal of it, but that this, the way to see others and offer, was meant to save a lot of time.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28386874 - 07/06/23 08:48 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Reminds me of in the course that it was said the various paths will fulfill the goal of it, but that this, the way to see others and offer, was meant to save a lot of time.




Yes, that right there is said in many ways many times in the course.  I think the course path is not meant for all, as it seems to draw to it the ones whose path that is.  It's like if it finds you, it might be the path you were meant to take.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28387187 - 07/06/23 02:05 PM (6 months, 19 days ago)

"It is a required course."

It's an excellent reflection too from other paths as they must meet - when feeling high in one we see the other.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28397432 - 07/16/23 09:39 AM (6 months, 9 days ago)

The other day I was doing a quick pick and wanted to post - the page I picked we had seen recently, but scrolling in the same chapter, and thinking of the recent bump of the Guilt and Fear thread...

The whole section is worth the read.

Quote:

5. The guiltless mind cannot suffer. ²Being sane, the mind heals the body because _it_ has been healed. ³The sane mind cannot conceive of illness because it cannot conceive of attacking anyone or anything. ⁴I said before that illness is a form of magic. ⁵It might be better to say that it is a form of magical solution. ⁶The ego believes that by punishing itself it will mitigate the punishment of God. ⁷Yet even in this it is arrogant. ⁸It attributes to God a punishing intent, and then takes this intent as its own prerogative. ⁹It tries to usurp all the functions of God as it perceives them, because it recognizes that only total allegiance can be trusted. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/93#5:1-9 | T-5.V.5:1-9)




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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28402662 - 07/21/23 08:43 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Great passage. The first sentence reminds me of:

Of one thing you were sure: Of all the many causes you perceived as bringing pain and suffering to you, your guilt was not among them. Nor did you in any way request them for yourself. This is how all illusions came about.T-27.VII.7.4-6

In the passage you shared, the idea about punishing yourself to mitigate God's punishment is fascinating. It makes me think of the house elves in Harry Potter. I can certainly relate it to myself.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28402670 - 07/21/23 08:48 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Helen told Jesus lots of things which I won’t mention because we’re recording this. Jesus told Helen, “What you’re doing with me is trying to make me manageable. You’re trying to manage me.” That’s what we’re always doing with everybody else. We’re always trying to manage people. Watch very specifically what you do with each other, with your selves, with your family, with your colleagues at work, with this course. It’s always about you—never about the other person.

It has to be about you because you’re the one who has all these needs that not only demand to be filled, but you feel justified in filling them. If you’re experiencing the wholeness, if you’re experiencing the wholeness of God’s love and you’re experiencing Jesus’ love beside you, there are no needs; which is what allows you, then, to be with the other person and really feel for the other person.

Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.
Cast No One Out


Ive heard this class and it is really quite wonderful.


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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28494237 - 10/06/23 09:24 AM (3 months, 20 days ago)

This is part of the Question and Answer series from the Foundation for A Course in Miracles:


Q #6: Can you please explain how and why the Course is unlike any other spiritual path? I have studied other non-dualistic teachings but seem to always come back to the Course.

A: First, let us say that by non-duality we mean that A Course in Miracles recognizes only one dimension of reality -- spirit and the state of perfect oneness, what the Course refers to as the realm of knowledge. Everything else -- the dualistic world of separation and perception, of form and matter, of thinking and concepts -- is illusion, and thus does not really exist.
This non-dualism is what you find in the higher teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism, but rarely in the West. What makes A Course in Miracles unique as a spiritual system -- ancient and contemporary -- is its integration of this non-dualistic metaphysics with a sophisticated psychology, heavily based on the insights of Freud and his followers. This means essentially that at the same time that the Course teaches that the world is an illusion and is nothing but a dream, outside the Mind of God, we are urged to practice our daily lessons of forgiveness, paying careful attention to our everyday experiences here. Key to this integration is the Course’s emphasis on purpose, the introduction of which idea sets A Course in Miracles apart from other spiritual paths. The Course teaches that not only is the world an illusion, but that it is a purposive illusion; the purpose being to make a world of bodies, thoroughly focused on solving the myriad number of physical and psychological problems that beset us daily, clamoring for attention and solution. In this way the mind, the true source of our problems, is kept hidden from awareness.
In addition, A Course in Miracles is unique among spiritualities in its insistence that we look at the ego -- the dark side -- as the way of moving beyond to the light. Its focus, therefore, is not on the truth, but on removing our ego’s thought system of guilt, fear, and attack, which allows the light of truth to shine. As Jesus teaches in one representative passage: "Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all of the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. It is not necessary to seek for what is true, but it is necessary to seek for what is false" (T.16.IV.6:1,2).


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28494334 - 10/06/23 11:08 AM (3 months, 20 days ago)

It's an interesting conundrum. It goes to all 'pursuit' of truth being as celebration or creation.


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