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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28377823 - 06/28/23 01:11 PM (6 months, 27 days ago)

The teaching, the mind is holy; I've been on about it today, in need of it. Can it be denied?

It's an interesting play to see the rebuttals within.

It doesn't have to be the word, holy, if not preferred, but should be an equivalent.


Edited by syncro (06/28/23 02:23 PM)


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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28378653 - 06/29/23 06:45 AM (6 months, 27 days ago)

It's funny because holy sounds nice one might think, sublime, innocent. It also implies mind is in control of itself, and is whole. This is power. We are, say, half in control of mind, half not, kind of meh. Not if the mind is holy.


Edited by syncro (06/29/23 06:51 AM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea] * 1
    #28385558 - 07/05/23 03:13 AM (6 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

tinymadidea said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

syncro said:
It still seemed elusive what is the ego. I was thinking what is it, something said or certain behaviors? No, imo, it must be the whole body-mind system




I have pondered this often, and ask myself (as it seems most thoughts are of the ego)  but is EVERY thought of the ego?  Loving thoughts toward others can't be, can they? Unconditional love certainly is not of the ego, so are loving thoughts (our true creations) the only thoughts not of the ego?  It would seem.




There are the two levels to bear in mind. On the one hand, everything that we know and experience is ego. Anything we are conscious of is dualistic and therefore not Oneness and therefore not of God. Basically everything we experience is illusory:

T3.IV.2.1-2
Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego


That being said, once we find ourselves within the world as a seperated self we can make a choice for something that reflects the Oneness of Christ. The only way we can do that is to undo the ego:
1. Realise we (as a decision making mind and NOT a body) have chosen the ego and accept 100% responsibility for that choice
2. Ask for the part of our minds that remembers God to help us to choose again
3. Be very kind with ourselves for not being able to do this for a lot of the time (This step is very important)

The big mistake is to make a positive choice for love. It's completely understandable and would seem very noble but we can't get there without first seeing that we choose the ego. We MUST go through the darkness of the ego to get to the light. Anything else is false light.

Forrester, the vast majority of thoughts we have reflect the ego: not surprising as this is the ego's world. Watching the ego, without judgement, reflects the thought of love. Loving thoughts come the more time you spend watching the ego with Love next to you. It's basically mindfulness. The Course leads you to an understanding of why to be mindful. I think it saves time because it helps you to avoid lots of ego pitfalls.




Good way to put it, indeed mindfulness is key.  I've never been able to sit and meditate eastern style, I just don't think it's my path.  But I find everyday constant mindfulness (or at least an attempt), forgiveness, and non-judgement to be my form of meditation and it is helpful, I seem to progress in making it easier and more natural.  We see ourselves in our brothers and I find this true more and more as I forgive all I see, which there is much opportunity to do with the state of the world today.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28385563 - 07/05/23 03:22 AM (6 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
T3.IV.2.1-2
Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego


This is interesting and I think it can be a common difference in use of the term consciousness, around Advaita and such, where consciousness can be equated with pure being, as in this case it is not.

If I recall correctly, Nisargadatta used consciousness to describe more as the dualistic perception, whereas Ramana Maharshi used it as pure being. It looks like Shankara uses consciousness as the self-illuminating absolute.




This is an interesting point and seems paradoxical, but as hermeticism says, all truths are but half truths.

I want to feel like pure consciousness is non-dual, but I see how duality is implied.  If one is conscious, what is one conscious OF if not "other", although that's really more perception than consciousness.  I guess non dual consciousness would be the feeling of oneness with God but even the course often implies that God is a step above when it says "God takes the last step".


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28385814 - 07/05/23 10:24 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Awareness has the same dual implication. Being seems good which I think Christ would say goes all the way(?), though some say beyond being, or neither or, that dirty quadruple logic, or the fifth is good, ineffable.


Edited by syncro (07/05/23 01:13 PM)


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28385835 - 07/05/23 10:45 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

But I think being need not be dismissed to the ineffable. It's a good word. :smile:


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28386530 - 07/05/23 11:36 PM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

tinymadidea said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

syncro said:
It still seemed elusive what is the ego. I was thinking what is it, something said or certain behaviors? No, imo, it must be the whole body-mind system




I have pondered this often, and ask myself (as it seems most thoughts are of the ego)  but is EVERY thought of the ego?  Loving thoughts toward others can't be, can they? Unconditional love certainly is not of the ego, so are loving thoughts (our true creations) the only thoughts not of the ego?  It would seem.




There are the two levels to bear in mind. On the one hand, everything that we know and experience is ego. Anything we are conscious of is dualistic and therefore not Oneness and therefore not of God. Basically everything we experience is illusory:

T3.IV.2.1-2
Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego


That being said, once we find ourselves within the world as a seperated self we can make a choice for something that reflects the Oneness of Christ. The only way we can do that is to undo the ego:
1. Realise we (as a decision making mind and NOT a body) have chosen the ego and accept 100% responsibility for that choice
2. Ask for the part of our minds that remembers God to help us to choose again
3. Be very kind with ourselves for not being able to do this for a lot of the time (This step is very important)

The big mistake is to make a positive choice for love. It's completely understandable and would seem very noble but we can't get there without first seeing that we choose the ego. We MUST go through the darkness of the ego to get to the light. Anything else is false light.

Forrester, the vast majority of thoughts we have reflect the ego: not surprising as this is the ego's world. Watching the ego, without judgement, reflects the thought of love. Loving thoughts come the more time you spend watching the ego with Love next to you. It's basically mindfulness. The Course leads you to an understanding of why to be mindful. I think it saves time because it helps you to avoid lots of ego pitfalls.




Good way to put it, indeed mindfulness is key.  I've never been able to sit and meditate eastern style, I just don't think it's my path.  But I find everyday constant mindfulness (or at least an attempt), forgiveness, and non-judgement to be my form of meditation and it is helpful, I seem to progress in making it easier and more natural.  We see ourselves in our brothers and I find this true more and more as I forgive all I see, which there is much opportunity to do with the state of the world today.




Pray at will?

:cross:


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28386722 - 07/06/23 04:56 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Reminds me of in the course that it was said the various paths will fulfill the goal of it, but that this, the way to see others and offer, was meant to save a lot of time.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28386874 - 07/06/23 08:48 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Reminds me of in the course that it was said the various paths will fulfill the goal of it, but that this, the way to see others and offer, was meant to save a lot of time.




Yes, that right there is said in many ways many times in the course.  I think the course path is not meant for all, as it seems to draw to it the ones whose path that is.  It's like if it finds you, it might be the path you were meant to take.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28387187 - 07/06/23 02:05 PM (6 months, 19 days ago)

"It is a required course."

It's an excellent reflection too from other paths as they must meet - when feeling high in one we see the other.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28397432 - 07/16/23 09:39 AM (6 months, 9 days ago)

The other day I was doing a quick pick and wanted to post - the page I picked we had seen recently, but scrolling in the same chapter, and thinking of the recent bump of the Guilt and Fear thread...

The whole section is worth the read.

Quote:

5. The guiltless mind cannot suffer. ²Being sane, the mind heals the body because _it_ has been healed. ³The sane mind cannot conceive of illness because it cannot conceive of attacking anyone or anything. ⁴I said before that illness is a form of magic. ⁵It might be better to say that it is a form of magical solution. ⁶The ego believes that by punishing itself it will mitigate the punishment of God. ⁷Yet even in this it is arrogant. ⁸It attributes to God a punishing intent, and then takes this intent as its own prerogative. ⁹It tries to usurp all the functions of God as it perceives them, because it recognizes that only total allegiance can be trusted. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/93#5:1-9 | T-5.V.5:1-9)




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Offlinetinymadidea
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Registered: 01/19/23
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28402662 - 07/21/23 08:43 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Great passage. The first sentence reminds me of:

Of one thing you were sure: Of all the many causes you perceived as bringing pain and suffering to you, your guilt was not among them. Nor did you in any way request them for yourself. This is how all illusions came about.T-27.VII.7.4-6

In the passage you shared, the idea about punishing yourself to mitigate God's punishment is fascinating. It makes me think of the house elves in Harry Potter. I can certainly relate it to myself.


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Offlinetinymadidea
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28402670 - 07/21/23 08:48 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Helen told Jesus lots of things which I won’t mention because we’re recording this. Jesus told Helen, “What you’re doing with me is trying to make me manageable. You’re trying to manage me.” That’s what we’re always doing with everybody else. We’re always trying to manage people. Watch very specifically what you do with each other, with your selves, with your family, with your colleagues at work, with this course. It’s always about you—never about the other person.

It has to be about you because you’re the one who has all these needs that not only demand to be filled, but you feel justified in filling them. If you’re experiencing the wholeness, if you’re experiencing the wholeness of God’s love and you’re experiencing Jesus’ love beside you, there are no needs; which is what allows you, then, to be with the other person and really feel for the other person.

Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.
Cast No One Out


Ive heard this class and it is really quite wonderful.


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Offlinetinymadidea
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28494237 - 10/06/23 09:24 AM (3 months, 20 days ago)

This is part of the Question and Answer series from the Foundation for A Course in Miracles:


Q #6: Can you please explain how and why the Course is unlike any other spiritual path? I have studied other non-dualistic teachings but seem to always come back to the Course.

A: First, let us say that by non-duality we mean that A Course in Miracles recognizes only one dimension of reality -- spirit and the state of perfect oneness, what the Course refers to as the realm of knowledge. Everything else -- the dualistic world of separation and perception, of form and matter, of thinking and concepts -- is illusion, and thus does not really exist.
This non-dualism is what you find in the higher teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism, but rarely in the West. What makes A Course in Miracles unique as a spiritual system -- ancient and contemporary -- is its integration of this non-dualistic metaphysics with a sophisticated psychology, heavily based on the insights of Freud and his followers. This means essentially that at the same time that the Course teaches that the world is an illusion and is nothing but a dream, outside the Mind of God, we are urged to practice our daily lessons of forgiveness, paying careful attention to our everyday experiences here. Key to this integration is the Course’s emphasis on purpose, the introduction of which idea sets A Course in Miracles apart from other spiritual paths. The Course teaches that not only is the world an illusion, but that it is a purposive illusion; the purpose being to make a world of bodies, thoroughly focused on solving the myriad number of physical and psychological problems that beset us daily, clamoring for attention and solution. In this way the mind, the true source of our problems, is kept hidden from awareness.
In addition, A Course in Miracles is unique among spiritualities in its insistence that we look at the ego -- the dark side -- as the way of moving beyond to the light. Its focus, therefore, is not on the truth, but on removing our ego’s thought system of guilt, fear, and attack, which allows the light of truth to shine. As Jesus teaches in one representative passage: "Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all of the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. It is not necessary to seek for what is true, but it is necessary to seek for what is false" (T.16.IV.6:1,2).


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28494334 - 10/06/23 11:08 AM (3 months, 20 days ago)

It's an interesting conundrum. It goes to all 'pursuit' of truth being as celebration or creation.


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