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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek 9
#27575370 - 12/09/21 10:44 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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A lot of folks will take an either/or approach to growing mushrooms. That is either Agar or BRF (PF-Tek). I like to do both and combine them in what I'll call the Combo Tek.
As a first step, rather than go spores to agar, I prefer to get pins first, then clone to agar. If you have a spore syringe, perfect. This particular grow I started with a swab and then made a spore syringe. You can use any wide, short PC-able PP5 container with a bottom layer of BRF/verm with a small hole on top covered with micropore tape, and PC for 45-60 minutes. I happened to have these empty hummus containers and used those. I injected spores through the top and covered with more tape.

After some time I saw some pins

Which I transferred to agar in 4oz mini rounds

which also produced pins

which I transferred to standard agar plates and let grow out

then transferred to sterilized quart rye jars (before and after shake)

and then spawned to a 6 qt plastic shoebox with coir/verm, which after some time looked like this

then this

and I got a couple of nice handfuls

and ended up with many macro and micro doses

So there you have it, my Combo Tek shoebox grow, combining the best of both worlds, BRF and agar. This method is great for people who want a step up from the PF-Tek. Also if anyone avoids agar due to having to do numerous transfers to clean it up, those steps are eliminated. The BRF does a great job of minimizing bacteria, and growing the pins in a closed container minimizes contamination from mold or other spores.
It was great fun for me to do this grow and present it to folks here. Many of you may already be using this or similar methods. If not, I hope you will try this out and incorporate this into your future grows.

Notes: All work done in a SAB. Verm/BRF/H2O standard 2:1:1 ratio, no verm barrier. Depth approximately 3/8 inch. Agar, MEA 10gm 10gm 500ml recipe. Easy to scale up to 66qt monos, just make more jars/substrate. Coir/Verm substrate prepared via bucket tek.
Edited by veggie (12/11/21 09:05 AM) Added Notes
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Baba Yaga
Psychedelic Minion

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 4,241
Loc: On Break Vacation
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: veggie]
#27575391 - 12/09/21 11:12 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nice, I might try this as well.
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Haywire
Wetspot Wizard



Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 1,620
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27575443 - 12/10/21 12:59 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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grass seed is another good substrate for in vitro pins. very easy to make as well.
-------------------- Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto My grows Outdoor patches
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Baba Yaga
Psychedelic Minion

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 4,241
Loc: On Break Vacation
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: veggie]
#27575450 - 12/10/21 01:04 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
veggie said: micro doses

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Ziran
The Hero of Time




Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 6,034
Loc: Temple of Time
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27575466 - 12/10/21 01:33 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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looks good my guy
-------------------- Song Of Healing
Updated Pf Tek Guide Ziran's Teks AMU Q&A Thread The Chinese word for nature is zìrÑn and it means that of which is of itself.

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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,401
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: Ziran]
#27575485 - 12/10/21 02:01 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: veggie]
#27576976 - 12/11/21 07:16 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Added Notes to post.
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Drboomer
The lord magnificent


Registered: 09/22/19
Posts: 957
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27577029 - 12/11/21 08:08 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Good simple writeup!
I've been doing this for awhile. It helps if you like to have a bunch of varieties and species going at once. You can knock up the brf pucks and kind of forget about em until they pin while getting agar work for other varieties done.
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xVadisx
MountainsDogsAndFungi



Registered: 09/03/21
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: veggie]
#27577188 - 12/11/21 10:48 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Interesting!
I usually do this but with full-on cakes that I also fruit and take clones from. I like the idea of saving some BRF/verm/space if I just want to get something going on agar -> oats and don't want the fruiting stage with cakes.
Thanks for the write-up veggie!
-------------------- Thanks to everyone for sharing what they know . 165F for 24hrs. Better Holes Tek (Use a Step Drill Bit) Don't forget your towel: THE HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE TO THE SHROOMERY
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: xVadisx]
#27579077 - 12/12/21 06:44 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
xVadisx said: I usually do this but with full-on cakes that I also fruit and take clones from. I like the idea of saving some BRF/verm/space if I just want to get something going on agar -> oats and don't want the fruiting stage with cakes.
Yes, that is a major advantage of cloning pins, you don't have to wait for a full flush of mature mushrooms to clone. And if you generally streak spores to agar, producing pins first may seem like a time consuming 'extra' step, but in the long run it really is a time saver.
Most growers, myself included, will clone a mature fruit in an attempt to duplicate a particular characteristic, e.g. the biggest, the most potent, the prettiest, the weirdest, etc. When I have spores, especially ones I haven't worked with before, the characteristic that I am most interested in is that they fruit. And starting with a pin, at the very least, I know that culture will fruit.
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fungusul
Fungus Kingdom


Registered: 07/16/20
Posts: 1,065
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: veggie]
#27579094 - 12/12/21 06:57 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank for tek! 
Great idea to create a clone out of a pin and later do a transfer. Controlling the starting point for transfers saves a lot of work in the long run.
On second transfer, have you transferred the second pin or just mycelium?
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: fungusul]
#27579905 - 12/13/21 11:14 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
fungusul said: On second transfer, have you transferred the second pin or just mycelium?
I have done both, transfer mycelium and transfer secondary pins. Initially the pins on the BRF are very small, too small to get a sample, so I just plop them whole on agar. The resulting mycelium grows clean and fast and I may transfer once to expand the culture, or go straight to grain.
Some plates will throw out pins like crazy and if I catch them in time, while still quite small, I will transfer those. If they get too big for my liking, I may just pluck and eat them right before they go to grain.
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bakedbeings
orbiter of truth


Registered: 09/01/20
Posts: 4,218
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: veggie]
#27579920 - 12/13/21 11:32 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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this kinda thing is definitely worthwhile if you have spore syringes. i find them very inconvenient for agar plates. how many a2a transfers do you usually do before a2g?
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aNewBeginning

Registered: 06/26/21
Posts: 708
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: bakedbeings]
#27580012 - 12/13/21 12:57 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nice writeup, thank you!!
How long did it take for the original BRF plate to pin?
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: aNewBeginning]
#27580174 - 12/13/21 03:34 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bakedbeings said: this kinda thing is definitely worthwhile if you have spore syringes. i find them very inconvenient for agar plates. how many a2a transfers do you usually do before a2g?
Absolutely. This is much more efficient than innoculating agar with a spore syringe. And, imo, more efficient than streaking spores to agar, in many cases.
I will usually do one transfer, many times zero, before going to grain.
Quote:
aNewBeginning said: How long did it take for the original BRF plate to pin?
I'll see a puff of white in 5-6 days, and full colonization and pins in another 5-6 days. Approximately.
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fungusul
Fungus Kingdom


Registered: 07/16/20
Posts: 1,065
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: veggie]
#27581176 - 12/14/21 01:04 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you veggie!
I'm using 3M micropore surgical tape which is more like a mesh. Yours looks like a matrix of small holes on a transparent plastic material.
What kind of micropore tape are you using?
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: fungusul]
#27581300 - 12/14/21 03:44 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
fungusul said: What kind of micropore tape are you using?
Yes, you are right, fungusul. I am not using the brand 3M MicroporeTM tape. I use the term micropore, incorrectly, to mean any breathable tape. I am actually using the 3M TransporeTM tape this time.
The difference is that the Micropore tape is breathable, white, non-waterproof, gentle hold. The Transpore tape is breathable, clear, waterproof, stronger hold.
Either tape, in my opinion, can be used. I do use both myself. Some say the Transpore will melt in a PC, but I've never had that issue. But I do replace it after 2 or 3 uses, 1 or 2 with the Micropore tape.
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fungusul
Fungus Kingdom


Registered: 07/16/20
Posts: 1,065
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: veggie]
#27581373 - 12/14/21 04:37 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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With 3M Transpore tape been stronger it might be easier to replace than 3M Micropore tape. Is that true in your experience?
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MegaCrouton
Stranger


Registered: 12/08/21
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: fungusul]
#27581665 - 12/14/21 09:34 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Going to give this a shot once my PF jars colonize. I'm having the hardest time getting the MSS to go directly to agar, so this should make it much easier.
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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Re: BRF pins > agar grow. The Combo Tek [Re: fungusul]
#27582595 - 12/15/21 02:02 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
fungusul said: With 3M Transpore tape been stronger it might be easier to replace than 3M Micropore tape. Is that true in your experience?
Both tapes peel off easy enough. The transpore tape is a little stickier and will sometimes leave a residue. But it is not a big deal. You can use either tape. Also generic breathable surgical tapes, found next to the name brands in drug stores, work just as well.
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