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OfflineZoekend
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Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 19
Loc: NL
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Santo Daime?
    #2757321 - 06/02/04 05:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Hi there ... I'm totally new to the board, so I guess I'll just start at the beginning.

I'm 26, live in NL and have been using paddo's (shroomz) for both fun and discovery regularly for about the past 8 years ... I love to use them at parties, waay better than the pills my pals take. But I have also had major breakthroughs with them -- among other things, my brother and I healed a long-festering wound for good and I finally lost whatever fear I had that was blocking my crossing into fluency in Dutch (I grew up speaking French & English) ...

And I've, like many, had serious spiritual discoveries. I've always wanted to meditate and do it right while tripping, but I just can't seem to get my head to sit still.

I figured a good place to start my search would be at my local smartshop. The girl behind the counter didn't know about anyone who did shroom meditation, but she mentioned there was a Brazilian church in The Hague that uses ayahuasca ... Santo Daime.

I've read loads of links on it, and it really sounds like something up my alley -- beliefs and all, not just the sacraments. Has anyone here ever been to a proper Santo Daime ceremony who can tell me what it's like?

I'm definitely excited about what might be in the future, but I want to know more about the services, etc. ... I found a few reports on erowid from people who'd been to the Amsterdam church, but they were really focused on the drug and not so much the spiritual bit of it.

So I figured I'd ask here!

Thanks a lot ...
Zoekend


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 27 days
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: Zoekend]
    #2760314 - 06/03/04 12:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

there are maybe some folks over at www.ayahuasca.com who have been to a sandaime or a UDV church service...

& more info floating around their host www.yage.net


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineZoekend
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Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 19
Loc: NL
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: gnrm23]
    #2760809 - 06/03/04 04:53 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks!


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Offlinemycrodot
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Registered: 03/17/04
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Re: Santo Daime? [Re: Zoekend]
    #2761022 - 06/03/04 06:09 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Zoekend, elaborate on this healing of a long-festering wound if you would please.


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OfflineZoekend
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Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 19
Loc: NL
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: mycrodot]
    #2762500 - 06/04/04 09:27 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The long-festering wound ... ahhhh ... let's see if I can explain this clearly, yet succinctly ...

My brother and I were really close growing up ... there's 4.5 years between us (I'm older) and we got along great. That's not to say that there weren't the usual sibling issues (we used to beat on each other like nobody's business -- I've sent him to the emergency room for stitches, and we both have countless other physical scars from roughhousing), but on the whole we were always there for each other.

Then, when I was 14 and he was 10, I entered the 9th grade -- at a 5-day boarding school 75 miles away from home (on campus from Sunday night through Friday, home on weekends). And, at the same time, our dad hit rock-bottom with his alcoholism and entered recovery.

The combination of my being a usual teenager causing my parents grief and our dad going through a really hard time put a lot of pressure on the family. Dad wasn't there for anyone but himself. I was self-absorbed and miles away, yet still causing repercussions at home. Mom was busy going through her version of recovery ... and there was my brother, left to fend for himself (which, whether actually true or not, is how he saw it)...

After high school, I got a scholarship to be an exchange student in Germany ... by this point, the 'heavy lifting' of our dad's recovery was behind us and things were on the upswing in general (my brother was entering high school, and I would've been out of the house regardless) ... while in Germany, I have to admit I wasn't very good at managing money. I was partying pretty hard and (unbeknownst to me) was causing my parents more grief back home who kept bankrolling the party ...

When I got back from Germany, I proceeded to start college only to find out it wasn't for me (I had much more success just jumping into the working world) ... the one year of college study caused more friction between me and my parents.

What does this all have to do with the relationship between me and my brother? In addition to feeling like I had abandoned him, he also felt resentment because he was the one who had to deal with the negative emotions in the house whenever I would screw up. I would get it while on the phone with my parents, but the minute I'd hang up, I would be back in "my world" ... and he would have to watch our mom crying about how I was a f*ckup and our dad be all sullen and depressed because he was adjusting to an alcohol-free (and thus for him, hobby-free) life ...

After I dropped out of college, I really got my act together. Basically all I needed was true independence. That was 6 years ago ... I leapt up the ladder at a multinational company, working like a dog (and loving every minute of it), getting job security and living the life I always wanted - including getting back over to Europe (and NL, no less!) ...

Anyhow, my brother had never gotten over his resentment of feeling like he got the shaft because of my choices. And the fact that I had succeeded essentially by ditching my family and making 'selfish' choices bothered him even more. Sort of a prodigal son syndrome. Because he didn't want to cause my parents the same grief I had caused them, he tried to be the "good son" and pushed a lot of his own wishes under the surface.

Toss in the ever-present sibling rivalry (we're both really competitive, and hate to let the other get the upper hand), and it was impossible for the two of us to spend time together for a while. We'd have a good day, but then end up having a rip-roaring argument in the evening about nothing at all.

Finally, while he was visiting, he and I ate some Mexicans (his first time) ... about halfway through the trip we just started talking. And we talked. Feelings that I didn't even knew he had came to the surface, I was able to share some of my perspective, we both had a big cry and for the first time in years really felt the brotherly love that we have for each other.

We talked for nearly 3 hours about everything that was standing between us without either one getting angry or defensive. We were able to have the rational, yet emotionally-deep, conversation we'd been needing to have for a long time. I think part of it was that the motivation for the unloading wasn't to hurt each other (as it had been in the past), but rather to put it to rest and move forward with the rest of our adult lives (he's 21 now) ...

That was 2 years ago. Since then, it feels like part of ourselves has gone back in time to when we were little kids and there was nothing in between us ... but with an adult perspective that allows us to really enjoy just being together. He's an amazing guy, a fantastic professional artist and musician ... and despite some frustrations when I don't "get" his work, we haven't had a serious fight since that magical evening.

I've shared this story with people who've never tried a psychedelic, let alone shrooms, and they just pooh-pooh the effect. They feel that the catharsis would've happened eventually, and that the fungus gave us "fake" feelings for the evening.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Perhaps we would've eventually buried the hatchet, but it would've taken way more time and who knows what would've happened between then and now (now we're still young enough to have crazy fun together) ... and the feelings were absolutely genuine, just put in a managable context. It was weird .. at times in the conversation, we were just totally wrapped up in the emotions with tears streaming down our faces, and then other times (particularly with the negative emotions) we were able to take a mental step back and just observe without reacting.

So, that is the elaborate description of the wound and the healing ... I hope it's clear!! Would be happy to answer any other questions about it ...


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Offlinemycrodot
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Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 8
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: Zoekend]
    #2763089 - 06/04/04 01:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, I misunderstood your use of the word wound. I thought you were referring to a actual cut or wound that would not heal.


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: Zoekend]
    #2763345 - 06/04/04 02:55 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

as far as aya goes, go and ask that question in the other drug forum as well, you may get more results you're looking for.

as for the philosphy part of your post...that was great!!!  i highly enjoyed reading it, thank you for sharing.

I don't see how people can say an actual "feeling" is fake.  you're experiencing it, so it must be real.  letting go of the ego and judgement is a wonderful thing, especially for those long chats!

not judging what you did in the past is a good thing too!  learning from it is different, but all and all sounds like you two had a wonderful experience.  :thumbup:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2763374 - 06/04/04 03:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

you're experiencing it, so it must be real.

I'm not so sure about this, kaiowas!  Please read this and let me know if you think what I experienced was "real". It certainly felt real... :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: trendal]
    #2763423 - 06/04/04 03:08 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

no no!!! I think you misunderstand me...but I'll read it anyway since you're like a mod and all and you'll put your firery wrath upon my good name if I don't. :wink:

what I should have said was emotions...like Zoekend put "fake feelings"

I know there are fake ideas, but feelings..as in emotions??


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2763434 - 06/04/04 03:10 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Ahh, I misunderstood you there kaiowas! I thought you were implying that sensory experience = Reality :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: trendal]
    #2763479 - 06/04/04 03:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

btw tendal, that is a classic salvia breathrough.  when you felt like you were going away and couldn't fight it anymore, did you ever see snippets of your own life flash before your eyes?  that shit is insane too.  fantastic read  :thumbup:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2763494 - 06/04/04 03:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

did you ever see snippets of your own life flash before your eyes?

No. The entire thing played out as very "real"...with nothing I would call a "hallucination".

Aside from things dissapearing and changing form, of course :smirk:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineZoekend
Stranger
Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 19
Loc: NL
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Santo Daime? [Re: trendal]
    #2763840 - 06/04/04 04:48 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Kaiwo, glad you enjoyed it ... I've been awed at the relationship-building aspects of shroom use .. it's such a cliche, I know, but even when it's a bad trip you get to know your friends better ...

I was at a party with a friend this past Saturday, and the friend I was there with had a really bad trip. Full-on paranoia. He thought Al Qaeda was staging a sarin attack and that I was part of this giant conspiracy to kill him ... and the Jesus van just confirmed to him that he was on the way out.

I always thought of him as a really laid-back, yet intense guy, but I had no idea his head was under as much pressure as what came out that night ... (well, I should've guessed earlier, he just broke up with his girlfriend of 11 years...) ....

We've always been pals, but now we're really friends ... and that's just an example of a *bad* trip ..


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Amazon Shop for: Ayahuasca, Salvia

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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