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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: christopera]
#27837545 - 06/26/22 02:44 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: Your argument is that the tv made people protest.
Did you ever consider that they wanted to be there?
I'm answering your question why a minority had more people show up to rallies than the majority.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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christopera
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
christopera said: Your argument is that the tv made people protest.
Did you ever consider that they wanted to be there?
I'm answering your question why a minority had more people show up to rallies than the majority.
No, you are presenting a hypothesis. One that isn't well supported because TV's rarely make people do things they don't want to do.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
Edited by christopera (06/26/22 02:46 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: christopera] 2
#27837565 - 06/26/22 02:51 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Without authority figures on tv asking others to show up to the rallies, they may not even know about the rallies.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't know the numbers, but 3 new news channels went live in Ukraine in November 2013, all pushing people to the Kiev protests. John McCain, Victoria Nuland, and others from the US also pushed people to protests (plenty of evidence of this).
Even if true, so what? Why does a free speech warrior like yourself have a problem with opinionated news channels?
I was just explaining to christopera why so many people came out to the rallies, even though it was a minority opinion.
Or there were so many because the movement had popular support. Doesn’t that same poll showing 45% support for the protests also show less than 10% support for yanukovitch? He was a massively unpopular leader.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Without authority figures on tv asking others to show up to the rallies, they may not even know about the rallies. 
Sounds about right.
I went to gay pride in Baltimore yesterday and I’m 100% sure I wouldn’t have known about it if nobody bothered to get the word out about when and where it was happening.
Your seriously complaining that people were trying to get as many protesters on the streets as possible?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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christopera
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Without authority figures on tv asking others to show up to the rallies, they may not even know about the rallies. 
A hypothesis you can’t really prove in this case. You can’t prove there were no opposition authorities. You can’t prove people went because there were authorities. It’s just speculation.
What we do know, those people went there because they decided to go there.
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koods
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: christopera] 1
#27837751 - 06/26/22 05:30 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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I agree with falcon that rallies tend to not be well attended if they aren’t publicized.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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r3volution.gurl



Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: christopera]
#27837768 - 06/26/22 05:47 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: ...TV's rarely make people do things they don't want to do.
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  "Souls love. That’s what souls do. Egos don’t, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and you’ll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass
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koods
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Unless you are actively psychotic, you’re not taking marching orders from your TV
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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r3volution.gurl



Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: koods] 1
#27837797 - 06/26/22 06:00 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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koods said: Unless you are actively psychotic, you’re not taking marching orders from your TV
Sure... lol I beg to differ.
People take all kinds of orders from their television and don't even realize it.
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  "Souls love. That’s what souls do. Egos don’t, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and you’ll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass
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Faustoid
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Humans are psychotic. We are so mimetically infested by our own argumentative bullshit that we cannot even remotely suggest agreement on things that are worded differently though mean the same thing.
We are so collectively arrogant and self righteous that the world will burn around us while we cannot agree on who gets to let it burn.
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christopera
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: koods]
#27837869 - 06/26/22 06:49 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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koods said: I agree with falcon that rallies tend to not be well attended if they aren’t publicized.
Me too.
However, Fal has no proof pro Russian agreement rallies weren't well publicized. Just pure speculation. That there were 3 new news stations is proof of nothing, maybe in Ukraine they get 10 new news stations a year. Who knows? Maybe those new stations were pro Russia? Who knows? Maybe all of the existing stations were saying "don't go to the rally, we are pro Russia", and then people said "Fuck you we are pro EU and went to the rally." It's all speculation.
The proof we do have? Pro Russian agreement rallies weren't much of a thing. Pro EU rallies, pretty big. 1/44th of the population showed up in one city when a Russian agreement was announced. When was the last time the US had a rally with 7 million people (1/44th the population)?
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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christopera
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Quote:
r3volution.gurl said:
Quote:
koods said: Unless you are actively psychotic, you’re not taking marching orders from your TV
Sure... lol I beg to differ.
People take all kinds of orders from their television and don't even realize it.
You aren't psychotic so you do take orders from your TV?
Or are you just smarter than the rest of us?
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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r3volution.gurl



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Loc: Canada
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: Faustoid]
#27837875 - 06/26/22 06:55 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Faustoid said: Humans are psychotic. We are so mimetically infested by our own argumentative bullshit that we cannot even remotely suggest agreement on things that are worded differently though mean the same thing.
We are so collectively arrogant and self righteous that the world will burn around us while we cannot agree on who gets to let it burn.
Yeah true!
I believe it to be more ignorance than psychotic though, but you're not wrong to use that word when we actually think about the big picture of how we are actively destroying our environment and what we are doing about it collectively.
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  "Souls love. That’s what souls do. Egos don’t, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and you’ll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass
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r3volution.gurl



Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: christopera]
#27837885 - 06/26/22 07:01 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
r3volution.gurl said:
Quote:
koods said: Unless you are actively psychotic, you’re not taking marching orders from your TV
Sure... lol I beg to differ.
People take all kinds of orders from their television and don't even realize it.
You aren't psychotic so you do take orders from your TV?
Or are you just smarter than the rest of us?
The point made was 'unless you're psychotic, you don't take orders from television'.
I don't think I'm smarter, I'm aware of psychological warfare and much less ignorant regarding world issues and solutions than majority of people, but that has nothing to do with the current conversation.
I just believe it's ignorant to think people don't take orders from their televisions and the pandemic is a prime example of that. Lots of people didn't want to stay home etc., but they did for a better future.. what falcon is explaining is similar to that in regards to people wanting a better future and when television taps into that psychologically, people will follow.
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  "Souls love. That’s what souls do. Egos don’t, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and you’ll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass
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christopera
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We can narrow it down in the context of the discussion.
Do you think there were television programs that told people be be pro EU and they rallied, maybe rioted, they didn't consider the implications, they just did it because there was TV coverage.
Or do we think they went there and rallied, maybe rioted, likely understood potential and hopeful implications, and did so on their own volition?
The body of knowledge clearly points to the latter being the case for the vast majority. Some make believe about people getting brainwashed into rallying, maybe rioting, for a pro EU cause when in fact they all wanted a pro Russian decision is absolutely fucking retarded. Gaslighting at its worst.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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r3volution.gurl



Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: christopera] 1
#27837918 - 06/26/22 07:20 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: We can narrow it down in the context of the discussion.
Do you think there were television programs that told people be be pro EU and they rallied, maybe rioted, they didn't consider the implications, they just did it because there was TV coverage.
Or do we think they went there and rallied, maybe rioted, likely understood potential and hopeful implications, and did so on their own volition?
The body of knowledge clearly points to the latter being the case for the vast majority. Some make believe about people getting brainwashed into rallying, maybe rioting, for a pro EU cause when in fact they all wanted a pro Russian decision is absolutely fucking retarded. Gaslighting at its worst.
Both those questions could answer true simultaneously. We can only speculate. I don't know each and every individual to answer that personally.
People have multiple reasons to participate or support a cause. I can guarantee not every single person at those rallies were on the same page being pro EU.
Brainwashing isn't make believe and people support causes or positions they later regret all the time(unlikely to ever admit to it though). I'm not saying this is the case here, but it's not wise to be ignorant to that fact.
Television programming is one of the most powerful brainwashing tools.
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  "Souls love. That’s what souls do. Egos don’t, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and you’ll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass
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christopera
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Precisely. We can only speculate.
However, we know that pro EU marches were massive and followed directly a pro Russian agreement from the existing government. The timeline is very clear.
Now I am no Sherlock Holmes, but what do we think the body evidence suggests? Do we think the 3 new news stations instantly created enough publicity to stir a rally, later a riot, that was pro EU? Or do we think people were just pissed off and went and marched and later rioted?
Which is the more simple answer? The probable answer?
Meanwhile, the pro Russian agreement marches hardly materialized. Did the TV not have pro Russian material in a State that just decided to be pro Russian agreement?
Suspicious for sure.
Also, I never said brainwashing was make believe. I said the notion that the TV brainwashed people into rallying/marching/rioting/ for a pro EU agreement was make believe. There is probably some level of creep on that, variability. I won't deny that people do things because they see things on TV, but did it influence hundreds of thousands to march when there was very little pro Russian agreement marchers? A shaky dishonest proposition, gaslighting really.
I do agree that being aware of media influence, to some degree a subtle form of brain washing, it should be considered. I just don't think it was a reasonable influence in this specific case. The body of evidence says as much.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
Edited by christopera (06/26/22 07:35 PM)
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koods
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: christopera]
#27837955 - 06/26/22 07:39 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lots of people didn't want to stay home etc., but they did for a better future.
Wtf does that have to do with a TV
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Re: Anybody know Jimmy Dore? [Re: christopera]
#27837963 - 06/26/22 07:42 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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I think the main problem with falcon’s premise is that the antigovernment faction was much larger than the faction that supported the government.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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