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Shroomluvr69
luvr of shrooms


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 32
Loc: The Netherlands
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Adding cocoa nibs (fermented) and Japanese green tea (Okumidori Gyokuro) to the substrate
#27568879 - 12/04/21 10:15 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I just inoculated jars containing an experimental substrate.
Since I recently started using tea (as a drink) more seriously and start to appreciate it's effects more and more I thought it would be interesting to see if P. cubensis would like it too. So I chose a high quality hand picked green tea (yeah I'm a snob) which I personally really like. I also added some cocoa nibs as cocoa is known as food of the gods in Aztec culture, whereas mushrooms are known as the flesh of the gods, so it made sense to combine the two in my "Western" mind. It might be totally useless but I'm curious to see what happens. And hey, placebo is one hell of a drug.
I'm curious also to your thoughts on this, as I did no research to the chemicals present in both tea and chocolate to predict a negative or positive result.
-------------------- "When in doubt, double the dose." Terence McKenna
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rince
Wind


Registered: 07/17/21
Posts: 213
Loc: EU
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Re: Adding cocoa nibs (fermented) and Japanese green tea (Okumidori Gyokuro) to the substrate [Re: Shroomluvr69]
#27570030 - 12/05/21 07:48 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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From Radical Mycology by Peter McCoy:
Quote:
The Fungi Will Teach You More Than Any Person The limits of appropriately applied mushroom cultivation are unknown. Where its history has for so long been constricted, the cultivators of today should seek to push the current boundaries of fungal cultivation into new fields of research. I cannot overstate the importance of trying new things when working with fungi, nor can I summarize the great value of learning from mistakes and experimenting. Many of the techniques and insights presented in the following pages are based on the direct experiences of many cultivators who intentionally did things that were not supposed to work. Every time knowledge is gained on how fungi respond to novel conditions or ecologically reflective designs, the skill of the cultivator and the depth of dialogue surrounding cultivation advances one step forward. Without experimentation, we will never fully understand what the possibilities are for working with fungi. Indeed, many of the greatest advances in science have arisen due to accident and/or intuition. If we only repeat what others tell us to believe about the fungi, we deny our ability to form our own relationships with them. It is by slowing down and paying attention to the responses of fungi that we learn most directly from them, enabling the chance to uncover an understanding of their ways that no book could ever teach.
-------------------- LAGMv2.022
1959-2021 Rest in peace, you old chunk of coal.
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,971
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Re: Adding cocoa nibs (fermented) and Japanese green tea (Okumidori Gyokuro) to the substrate [Re: Shroomluvr69] 1
#27570259 - 12/05/21 11:30 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Adding cocoa nibs (fermented)
The japanese make sake by adding koji, rice fermented with Aspergillus oryzae, to yeast.
You suggest adding another fermented product: this will add many organisms to the substrate, compromising sterility. That doesn't mean it won't work! There's a principle of parallel fermentation, or you might also call it 'dual culturing/co-culturing'. It involves intentionally fermenting more than one thing at once. Osenstibly, one wants them to work together.
For sake, the koji helps break down the sugars in the rice, similar to the malting process to make malt extract, which the yeast then consumes. Kombucha is made by symbiosis in the cultures of bacteria and yeast.
This fermented cacao may be good for the mushroom, and the cultures may work together: that would be the ideal outcome. I don't know what the actual outcome will be. Good luck!
Quote:
Shroomluvr69 said: I'm curious also to your thoughts on this, as I did no research to the chemicals present in both tea and chocolate to predict a negative or positive result.
Green tea contains a number of anti-oxidant compounds: such as EGCG, epigallocatechin gallate. Many of the health effects of tea are attributed to this compound. It has been shown to be massively anti-microbial in-vivo. My guess is a low dose will slow the psilocybin down a bit, but may potentially encourage the culture to be strong long-term, by killing off simpler molds. Similar principle as 'anti-biotic agar'.
I tested making grains infused with plant extracts: one was wheat berries with blueberry extract and strong chamomile tea made from the whole flowers. I then injected with spores of P. Mexicana. Growth was exceptionally slow, most germinated eventually though and produced healthy sclerotia after about 6 months or more. I think the slow growth was more the blueberry extract, which was a very strong and 'pharmaceutical' style extract. The tea was probably more possible to ferment
Sclerotia from these jars seemed to make me more sleepy than other mushrooms: I think some of the plant extracts seeped into the sclerotia, like bioaccumulation. In truth I quite liked the effect, and I'm definitely going to do something similar again with sclerotia.
I tested quinoa infused with a triphala extract: triphala is a mixture of three anti-oxidant herbs from India. I made a tea from this triphala, 9 of the himalaya strong extracts, which contain lots of tannins. Nothing at all grew in this jar even though it was injected with tampanensis spores. Not even bacteria grew though the grain was well-hydrated. The strong extract killed all the fungus.
It will be about the dose of these plant compounds. I think the way you're doing it, it'll even up stronger.
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Shroomluvr69
luvr of shrooms


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 32
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Adding cocoa nibs (fermented) and Japanese green tea (Okumidori Gyokuro) to the substrate [Re: CreonAntigone] 1
#27571356 - 12/06/21 12:46 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Your replies make me even more enthusiastic, thanks! I will report back if I have news Right now they're colonizing at 26C/80F.
Here's a picture of what the jars look like before any sign of growth:
 The dark spots are the cocoa, and you see some green leaves which is the tea. You can see I also used some whole grain brown rice; only because my flour bag was almost finished.
-------------------- "When in doubt, double the dose." Terence McKenna
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Failboat
Fuck Up
Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
Last seen: 26 days, 8 hours
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Re: Adding cocoa nibs (fermented) and Japanese green tea (Okumidori Gyokuro) to the substrate [Re: Shroomluvr69]
#27571387 - 12/06/21 01:13 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you want to grow mushrooms I reccomend wheat. Drink your tea and chew your nibs for energy while practicing standardized cultivation procedures.
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,971
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Re: Adding cocoa nibs (fermented) and Japanese green tea (Okumidori Gyokuro) to the substrate [Re: Failboat]
#27571802 - 12/06/21 07:58 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: If you want to grow mushrooms I reccomend wheat. Drink your tea and chew your nibs for energy while practicing standardized cultivation procedures.
What do you feel about people adding coffee to sclerotia substrate? Provided it's properly PC'd. Tea or cacao would be similar.
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Failboat
Fuck Up
Registered: 02/01/18
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Last seen: 26 days, 8 hours
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Re: Adding cocoa nibs (fermented) and Japanese green tea (Okumidori Gyokuro) to the substrate [Re: CreonAntigone] 1
#27572035 - 12/07/21 02:09 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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If it's a free waste product then it could be added to mushroom media. I suppose spent tea would be logical. I just wouldn't spend money on high cost ingredients that are intended for human consumption ya know what I mean. Like popcorn is costly compared to feed corn. Unless you have access to a tea house or cafe who will supply you freebies I just wouldn't put it on the list of ingredients beyond chucking in the mornings pot worth on any given day.
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp


Registered: 10/09/21
Posts: 898
Last seen: 21 hours, 50 minutes
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Re: Adding cocoa nibs (fermented) and Japanese green tea (Okumidori Gyokuro) to the substrate [Re: Failboat]
#27576545 - 12/10/21 07:06 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I know this is a bit tangential to your experiment, but one of the things I am currently working on is using coconut flour as a substrate for several species, including cubes. I've already shown that cubensis can successfully colonize and fruit from ONLY coconut flour substrate, if you're interested in that check out my signature.
The cool part is that coconut flour is not a grain or a grain product.
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FungiPapi
Stranger


Registered: 09/08/20
Posts: 67
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
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Re: Adding cocoa nibs (fermented) and Japanese green tea (Okumidori Gyokuro) to the substrate [Re: Mycoplex]
#27605014 - 01/03/22 11:30 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I use spent gunpowder green tea in all my grows; I noticed they colonize quicker, but green tea can sometimes look like contaminations.
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