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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #27564828 - 12/01/21 02:30 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
I've had food poisoning a couple of times that I would consider WAY worse than the flu. Flu was a cakewalk by comparison.

Although I will say, I think COVID was the most sick I've ever felt, TBF.

But still, I knew it would pass.



the fact that you think you can just drop "food poisoning" as any kind of objective basis of comparison speaks to your ability to engage productively in this kind of of conversation. With the right set of ears you could consume it, though

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #27564845 - 12/01/21 02:47 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I think it's hard for most people to understand what serious illness is unless they've been around it in meaningful ways. JSB's flu is waaaaaaay different from an 80 year old's flu for example, and his upset tommy is different from some kids renal failure after eating a hamburger. Lots of the population has significant illness of some kind, and those illnesses have been managed pretty well as far as most people are aware, so they don't understand what's being talked about. People lined up to get an experimental polio vaccine after it failed because they knew damn well what it was like to watch healthy children suffer and die unexpectedly. JSB has lived a privileged life in that regard. There's only so much you can expect from somebody that has to rely purely on abstraction for understandign, particularly when it's in conflict with other parts of their beliefs. If he'd worked in a nursing home or a hospital for a couple years, even before covid, he'd have had his fill of this type of senseless suffering, and he'd probably be on the opposite side of the issue. Right now he doesn't seem to be able to even think about the people who are needlessly sick and dying in a way that demonstrates understanding, and he's not alone in that. Again, this is why we need more mandates to help. Compassion has to be learned, and people are showing they're clearly not up to the task right now.

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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #27564846 - 12/01/21 02:48 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
People think they're healthy and die of heart attacks all the time. Covid is one of those things right now. It's doing lots of subclinical damage to the population and that's going to make life suck later on for lots of people. It's already doing it to people in the short term.




Most people see a low death rate, know a couple people who got through with mild symptoms, and just think "I'll be fine".

Yet statistically hospitalization even in the 'young and healthy' isn't rare at all, especially with Delta.

I could give dozens of anecdotal stories from people I know and Covid patients I worked with before my state got mostly vaccinated, many of them younger and healthier than me (at least prior to infection), you can't inject reality into anyone though. It's all just numbers until someone's faced with the reality of what illness really is, it's even worse when facing something entirely preventable.

Catching Covid naturally is not some flowers and rainbows holistic and organic way of gaining immunity, it's a highly infectious novel virus that your system has no past experience fighting off ravaging your cells and taxing countless organs and physiological processes while your body enacts a myriad of inflammatory processes and tries desperately to figure out how to not die. All of the ways that even an infection with mild symptoms can impair your long term health in forms that you may not realize until months/years later, and the frequency that they've been occuring, are just a google search away. Needles are scary though

Edited by feevers (12/01/21 02:58 PM)

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
    #27564883 - 12/01/21 03:25 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


All of the ways that even an infection with mild symptoms can impair your long term health in forms that you may not realize until months/years later, and the frequency that they've been occuring, are just a google search away





Yeah but so is the ability to pretend your life is meaningful in any "greater than yourself" sense you want

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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #27564898 - 12/01/21 03:32 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
a vaccinated person is statistically far less likely to catch the virus than an unvaccinated person.



This is why I don't like statistics; they can be massaged to pretty much show anything anyone wants. Hell, they even include that shit in University courses.

I know a LOT of people personally, and I catch up with dozens around the world on a weekly basis, so I have a lot of anecdotal data to work from, and it certainly doesn't line up with what I'm being told.

Now please bear in mind; I'm not being arrogant here. Of course I have NO idea of the full scope worldwide. But when what I'm told totally conflicts with what I see personally - as a well traveled and worldly wise person - I'd have to be a fucking idiot to swallow it wholesale.

I know plenty of people who, fully vaxxed, have caught COVID 2-3 times. I caught it once, in December 2019, and have not had it again since. And I'm no some kind of paraoid germaphobe either, unlike many that I know. What I'm told simply does NOT add up with what I see with my own two eyes and hear with my own two ears, so to me it's just hearsay. And with the obvious frequency with which we are lied to by TPTB, I won't swallow it without question. Perhaps, if I knew you guys personally, I would be a lot more inclined to take your personal experiences onboard, but as it stands you're just ghosts in the machine, repeating what the media says, and so I don't buy it. I don't accept fear in my life, and I see (or think I do) a lot of fear in this thread.


Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
If he'd worked in a nursing home or a hospital for a couple years, even before covid, he'd have had his fill of this type of senseless suffering, and he'd probably be on the opposite side of the issue.

Right now he doesn't seem to be able to even think about the people who are needlessly sick and dying in a way that demonstrates understanding, and he's not alone in that. Again, this is why we need more mandates to help. Compassion has to be learned, and people are showing they're clearly not up to the task right now.



See you're doing that thing again and insulting my intelligence (I say this lightly, I sure hope you don't mean it). I know many employed in these environments, one a bestie. I am not ignorant to what goes on in them. I've also traveled across many developing countries. I've seen pain and suffering unimaginable in my time.

Nobody ever questioned me on that before, but now, because of my stance, suddenly I'm a fucking idiot who has no idea what suffering or compassion or real illness is?

It makes me very suspicious of those that would say such things to be talked to like this.

I would never question that of anyone, cause it's fucking rude.

One more reason not to comply, IMO.

Personal agenda...


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Onlinekoods
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 3
    #27564907 - 12/01/21 03:38 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
the short answer is yes

the medium answer is that it's true that some vaccines lose some of their efficacy when fewer people buy into them, which is why things like mandates exist for certain kinds of vaccines.



So given the fact that the world will never be fully vaxxed (I'm thinking of the poorest of developing countries here, as well as those who don't want vax), then COVID seems more likely to mutate in vaxxed people.

Yet the hardcore pro-vax lot want something that is innately unachievable, kind of like how I want to see utopia...

Perhaps I'm not supposed to get it?




That’s not how it works at all. Everytime a virus replicates its RNA, there’s the chance that errors occur in the copying process. That’s a mutation. The more copies of a virus being made the more chances there are for a mutation to arise that helps the virus. Unvaccinated people have much higher viral loads, and they are infected for a significantly longer period of time which allows for that mutation to get amplified through many more replication cycles.

Being vaccinated or not vaccinated doesn’t change the chances that a copying error occurs. A copying error is a completely random event. Being vaccinated reduces the number of copies of the virus, and therefore the number of copying errors.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineGorlax
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods] * 1
    #27564950 - 12/01/21 04:01 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Fuck Omicron my stock portfolio is taking a severe beating!

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #27564957 - 12/01/21 04:06 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I've got a friend youer
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
....


Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
If he'd worked in a nursing home or a hospital for a couple years, even before covid, he'd have had his fill of this type of senseless suffering, and he'd probably be on the opposite side of the issue.

Right now he doesn't seem to be able to even think about the people who are needlessly sick and dying in a way that demonstrates understanding, and he's not alone in that. Again, this is why we need more mandates to help. Compassion has to be learned, and people are showing they're clearly not up to the task right now.



See you're doing that thing again and insulting my intelligence (I say this lightly, I sure hope you don't mean it). I know many employed in these environments, one a bestie. I am not ignorant to what goes on in them. I've also traveled across many developing countries. I've seen pain and suffering unimaginable in my time.

Nobody ever questioned me on that before, but now, because of my stance, suddenly I'm a fucking idiot who has no idea what suffering or compassion or real illness is?

It makes me very suspicious of those that would say such things to be talked to like this.

I would never question that of anyone, cause it's fucking rude.

One more reason not to comply, IMO.

Personal agenda...




Most of my good friends have never done CPR on a stranger, watched somebody slowly die of cancer, or put kids in body bags, and I hope that they don't run around bragging about how much they understand about suffering just because we're buddies. walking past some starving kids in the 3rd world with untreated disease doesn't seem to have developed your compassion very much either. Nothing that you've posted in response to criticism of your stance on this issue shows any understanding of how covid is hurting people. Your posts show a clear lack of understanding and compassion for the suffering of others, flat out, and I'm pointing it out again. If that makes you feel stupid or insulted then that's on you. It's been explained to you several times and you're not getting it. Lots of posters have been watching people die in a professional setting, and they're telling you your wrong. Lots of posters have education on this subject that you lack, and they're telling you that you're wrong. It's arrogant to blow them off over and over. The simple truth of the matter is that you're spreading illness that kills and hurts people, and you don't care. Justify that in a way that shows compassion and consideration for other people if you feel like you deserve respect. So far you haven't done that or even made an attempt that hasn't devolved into selfish complaints about how you're losing your freedom. Feel free to quote an example if I one somewhere.

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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #27564960 - 12/01/21 04:08 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
If that makes you feel stupid or insulted then that's on you.



It doesn't make me feel stupid at all. It makes me think more and more that you are; I'm seeing more and more frequently your assumptions, making you far less a reliable source IMO.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Onlinekoods
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27564969 - 12/01/21 04:15 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

The unvaccinated are a burden. They are the reason we still have to worry about covid. And they are expensive.

The number of unvaccinated people hospitalized in my city for covid since the vaccines became available is 2,496. There were only 72 vaccinated people hospitalized. And the vaccinated population is twice the size. The 25% unvaccinated portion of the population was responsible for 97% of the hospitalizations. If those people had been vaccinated there would have been over 2,400 fewer covid hospitalizations this year. Those hospitalizations aren’t cheap. For someone in and out in a day or two, it’s 10,000-15,000. Someone spending three weeks in the ICU on the ventilator has used well over $1 million. If you average the hospital bill at 50,000$ those 2,400 cases, it’s $120 million dollars in unnecessary healthcare expenses in a single city due to the unvaccinated. That is money that gets paid by insurance customers, taxpayers and gofundme donations. I don’t think that is an acceptable situation when it is so easily remedied



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #27564972 - 12/01/21 04:18 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

It doesn't matter if I'm reliable or not, or if I'm stupid. You can look at plenty of reliable sources, but you haven't. You dodge the question again though. I'll post the important part of that criticism again:

The simple truth of the matter is that you're spreading illness that kills and hurts people, and you don't care. Justify that in a way that shows compassion and consideration for other people if you feel like you deserve respect.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #27564990 - 12/01/21 04:32 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

feevers said:
a vaccinated person is statistically far less likely to catch the virus than an unvaccinated person.



This is why I don't like statistics; they can be massaged to pretty much show anything anyone wants.




Who in their right mind would think the world's top notch vaccines would have anything to do with reducing viral transmission, right?

I mean Feevers is talking about a vaccine like its some kind of vaccine, ludicrous!


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Onlinekoods
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27565034 - 12/01/21 04:58 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

feevers said:
a vaccinated person is statistically far less likely to catch the virus than an unvaccinated person.



This is why I don't like statistics; they can be massaged to pretty much show anything anyone wants.




Who in their right mind would think the world's top notch vaccines would have anything to do with reducing viral transmission, right?

I mean Feevers is talking about a vaccine like its some kind of vaccine, ludicrous!




Its really amazing how persistently the antivaxxers believe the vaccines don’t protect against infection.

This is real world data from the past two weeks. You are 7.3x more likely to get infected if you are unvaccinated.

Unvaxxed population: 250,000
Vaxxed population: 450,000

Vaxxed 172 cases/4.5=38.2 per 100,000

Unvaxxed 698 cases/2.5=279.2 per 100,000

279.2/38.27=7.3



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27565043 - 12/01/21 05:06 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

They know, but they choose not to know :cookiemonster:

Half this thread is finding new ways to state that the vaccine works to a significant degree.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27565048 - 12/01/21 05:11 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

success has been pretty limited on that front. When pie charts fail you know that you're in trouble.

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Onlinekoods
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27565056 - 12/01/21 05:18 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I mean it’s not even ambiguous.

How can you look at months worth of data that show the unvaccinated were responsible for 97% of hospitalizations and believe that the vaccines don’t work. Not a single vaccinated person hospitalized in the past week, 31 unvaccinated. Not only do they work they haven’t lost any efficacy keeping people out of the hospital.

But JSB knows people who were vaccinated and have gotten covid 3 times. In the past year. After being vaccinated. 3 times. Unless these people have full blown aids, that is simply a ridiculous story. He also wants us to believe that he was one of the hundred or so people outside of China infected with covid in December 2019. 100 in six billion.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27565115 - 12/01/21 05:50 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Yah we've tried eplaining the science, being nice, brow beating, shaming these people. Best thing we've seen so far is to trick them into thinking it's some liberal conspiracy to have them stay unvaccinated. Biden is fucking up:sadyes:

Edited by CHeifM4sterDiezL (12/01/21 05:51 PM)

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #27565159 - 12/01/21 06:16 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

when the pie charts came out, the whole pie was made with dead unvaccinated people with maybe a few spinkles of vaccinated people. You typically don't need numbers or figures for this kind of thing. It's some deep rooted emotional issues or something. I think it's best that they sort out these troubles in therapy after they get forced to get the vaccine. We'll see what happens when their jobs get threatened on a more serious level. I haven't personally tried extortion yet, so I have hope for that option. I do enjoy the liberal conspiracy idea though. I'm sure it's worked on some of the crazier ones.

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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #27565324 - 12/01/21 08:42 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
It doesn't matter if I'm reliable or not, or if I'm stupid. You can look at plenty of reliable sources, but you haven't. You dodge the question again though. I'll post the important part of that criticism again:

The simple truth of the matter is that you're spreading illness that kills and hurts people, and you don't care. Justify that in a way that shows compassion and consideration for other people if you feel like you deserve respect.



Yeah I'm sorry mate, but all your credibility on this subject - in my eyes - has now gone out the window. I'll always respect your advice and opinions on matters of the self and intimacy with others, and I'll always feel you're a friend, but on this matter it's now agree to disagree.

Fact is, you've made so many bloody assumptions about me thus far, when you really know me not, that you're bound to have made many assumptions about the subject at hand and I can no longer trust your opinion regarding it.

I'm 'spreading illness that kills and hurts people' now am I? Come on. Even for you that's a bit of a fucking stretch. I haven't been ill in two years, you don't think I'd have noticed??


Quote:

Asante said:
They know, but they choose not to know.

Half this thread is finding new ways to state that the vaccine works to a significant degree.



Oh I know they bloody work. I never denied that; I'm not a bloody idiot. At least, not all the time.

I just don't want it myself, and none of the arguments presented by people who think I should get it give me any cause to feel that I should get it.

Because that's what this thread - IMO, and feevers & morrow aside - has pretty much become; a bunch of people telling another bunch of people that they should get the vaccine, and if they don't; that somehow equates to them being immoral pieces of shit.

It's retardation of reductionist reasoning. I'll very likely keep playing, but it's really got kinda outa hand stupid at this point. I'm actually chuckling as I write this though cause it does amuse me just how retarded this world is. Everybody seems to want to think that they know everything.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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OfflineGorlax
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #27565491 - 12/01/21 11:31 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think most people will say the vaccines do not work. They are however not as effective as many or most sources claim. Pretty shitty technologies were put into making the vaccine.

They should have made the vaccine target multiple proteins instead of just the spike protein (s). The main one that would prevent many variants would be a vaccine that targets both the spike protein and nucleocapsid protein (n). I'm sure there's companies out there already drumming up this intellectual property idea.

Scientists seemed to have started to play with this idea as of 09/07/21

https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/pdf/S2211-1247(21)01108-6.pdf

Quote:


SARS-CoV-2 infection causes respiratory insufficiency and neurological manifestations, including loss of smell and psychiatric disorders, and can be fatal. Most vaccines are based on the spike antigen alone, and although they have shown efficacy at preventing severe disease and death, they do not always confer sterilizing immunity. Here, we interrogate whether SARS-CoV-2 vaccines could be improved by incorporating nucleocapsid as an antigen. We show that, after 72 h of challenge, a spike-based vaccine confers acute protection in the lung, but not in the brain. However, combining a spike-based vaccine with a nucleocapsid-based vaccine confers acute protection in both the lung and brain. These findings suggest that nucleocapsid-specific immunity can improve the distal control of SARS-CoV-2, warranting the inclusion of nucleocapsid in next-generation COVID-19 vaccines.




You can visualize it like this. The vaccine works as a key and the target protein the lock. The current vaccines work like a lock pick not like a key. Adding multiple targets would be like adding 2FA encryption and make it much harder for viral replication/transmission/variation.


nucleocapsid protein:

- is abundantly expressed during infection
- contains immunogenic epitopes
- is more highly conserved than the S protein among the viral variants
– new viral variants may be less likely to escape vaccine protection if vaccines include conserved sequences.
- is significantly more effective than S protein in stimulating antibody-dependent natural killer cell activation

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