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Tumerz
Registered: 06/24/20
Posts: 116
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27595594 - 12/26/21 07:55 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey, just found this thread, I don't get on here too often.
I've been playing around with ovoids for a little while now. I got some genetics from the northeast (maybe PA?) and GA as well. I'll post some pics of my plates/tubs tomorrow when i can get good pics.
I can get good growth going, but my problem is triggering the fruiting stage. I'm toying around with different temperature/humidity fluctuations to see if anything works but the rhizo growth continues to munch thru.
Has anyone had consistent success in fruiting these indoors?
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MysticMycologist
Dirt Sherpa



Registered: 10/14/21
Posts: 1,755
Loc: seeking samadhi
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Tumerz] 1
#27595601 - 12/26/21 07:58 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not yet. Thatβs the goal. Iβm sure we would all love to see your notes and pictures.
-------------------- Two eyes to look, One eye to see. Prying open my third eye 
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trampingtrillions
Drifter

Registered: 11/09/20
Posts: 64
Loc: Canada
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Hi all,
I have been following this thread closely, bought a syringe of ovoid spores from a vendor a couple months ago but never had any success germinating them, despite numerous attempts on a bunch of different substrates.
Would anybody be willing to share a print with me? Would be happy to send you a natalensis print in return.
Apologies if this is the wrong place for this request, just figured this is where the ovoid enthusiasts are.
Thanks & peace,
TT
-------------------- Trades List
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MysticMycologist
Dirt Sherpa



Registered: 10/14/21
Posts: 1,755
Loc: seeking samadhi
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Check out the marketplace for a print. Also, some vendors are offering ovoid prints
If you have a syringe, you could try dipping a sterile cotton swap into the solution and streaking that on agar.
-------------------- Two eyes to look, One eye to see. Prying open my third eye 
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trampingtrillions
Drifter

Registered: 11/09/20
Posts: 64
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 28 days, 7 hours
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I used up the last of my syringe unfortunately. I will buy another if it comes to it, just prefer to trade & build community where possible. I'll poke around the marketplace some more, didn't see anybody offering ovoids but perhaps I'll post this request there.
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SingularFusion


Registered: 10/31/18
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good stuff Mycoplex
I dunno how you are doing FAE/gas exchange on those
My findings with makings tubs of cyan spawn and such have shown the best colonization performance when I leave the tub basically like a unmodded tub of cubes in fruiting conditions, way more FAE than you would want for colonizing something usually. I dunno why the demand for fresh air is so high, but they really explode in those circumstances
You may be surprised what they can fight off, the woodlovers seem to be in a league of their own in terms of defending from small contaminations... as long as it's not trich, that seems to fuck them every time
And nope, I don't have any indoor fruit either yet unfortunately
Good luck with it, hope to see you get it done man
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp


Registered: 10/09/21
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@Nef, thanks man. The way I am doing FAE and gas exchange here is like what you just described. Both the straw tub and the layered one are unmodified tubs, and I leave the lid cracked/open 24/7.
On the layered tub, the fact that I did not leave the lid open after spawning the cardboard to substrate was what got me with the cobweb mold, that is my theory. I agree with you that these things seem to love FAE during colonization.
Here are a few more shots of both tubs. I show the cross-section of the layered tub and how the mycelium from the cardboard is expanding to the nearby woodchips and sawdust/soil.
The straw tub is also reaching out through the casing.
Edited by Mycoplex (12/26/21 11:32 PM)
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Tumerz
Registered: 06/24/20
Posts: 116
Last seen: 2 months, 4 days
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 2
#27596717 - 12/27/21 07:20 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've had good agar growth on recipes using LME and grain water as well. I just poured some dishes of grain water w/ the addition of some peptone this go around to see how it effects growth (mainly for other strains/species). Ovoids have been tearing thru the agar plates.
From agar I go to grain (I use oats cause theyre easy to get in bulk for cheap, I haven't experimented with other grain)
Once my grain is colonized I spawn to a substrate of coir, straw, vermiculite, wood shavings (I have a lathe from woodturning so use a mix from that, mainly wild cherry, eastern red cedar, red maple, etc.)
I do want to experiment with Acer negundo (box elder) wood shavings because the ovoid hunters in GA say it is the best indicator/associative tree. I have some in my backyard and am going to try my next batch with that.
Here is some growth from some current tubs:

I've just started to rotate this tub into the freezer at night to try and simulate a hard winter, and move it into a greenhouse style fruiting chamber during the day. (temps get up to about 70 max, with high FAE and high humidity). Praying that the temperature fluctuation might be the right trigger for these guys.
I've also got some other trays going, one that sits in the greenhouse all day, but it ripped thru the pseudo-casing pretty quick

I'll post some pics of the myc on agar
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp


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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Tumerz] 1
#27596760 - 12/27/21 08:04 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey Tumerz,
Those tubs look great. You're definitely ahead of myself as far as colonization goes, keep up the good work.
When it comes to the freeze/thaw cycle, I have seen/heard of two perspectives here. In a 2009 PDF by John Allen (linked in the first page of this thread), they also do the same thing with success; they freeze their spawn, then thaw it with extra water to simulate hard rainfall. I have had this strategy ready in case I want to try it out.
On another hand, others like elpico, Moricz, and probably others in this thread have also fruited them without doing this freeze cycle. Another reason I thought the freeze cycle might be unnecessary is because in a recent video where Alan Rockefeller describes various North American species, he mentions ovoids and their tendency to fruit regardless of the cold; what they care about is rain.
Video: Funxta'z Everything Mushroom Workshop featuring Alan Rockefeller. Ovoids come up around 12:50.
I'm probably going to try going without a freeze cycle, but if you find that it helps or leads to success, I would definitely give it a try.
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Tumerz
Registered: 06/24/20
Posts: 116
Last seen: 2 months, 4 days
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 2
#27596773 - 12/27/21 08:24 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the extra info. I'm going to case that one tray that's been in the greenhouse for a few days and see what happens.
And I had just read that John Allen article earlier this week. Going to give the tub a good soak after a few more freeze cycles and see if that induces anything after 10-14 days.
I'll keep yall updated
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marcelot
Stranger

Registered: 11/12/21
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27598217 - 12/29/21 04:02 AM (2 years, 30 days ago) |
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Mycoplex,
Its a sawdust substrate (still not fully colonized).
So the history is as follows:
1) Initially lid of shoebox-sized plastic box was closed.
2) From information about FAE on this thread, open lid for FAE (however, also moved to another location which was probably too hot, and got trichoderma contamination).
3) Now keeping the box closed to avoid trichoderma spreading to other cultures.
Testing alkaline water solution for trichoderma (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14620316.2004.11511754), once i'm done with trichoderma, will open box again.
But still some miles to fruiting :-)
Great to see Tumerz joining the experiments!
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Tweeq
Tweeq of Nature


Registered: 06/07/18
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: marcelot] 1
#27599912 - 12/30/21 01:44 PM (2 years, 28 days ago) |
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Very nice thread!
Got some nice ovoid plates and probably too late for spring fruits now anyway so I might give indoor a shot too.
Edited by Tweeq (12/30/21 01:45 PM)
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp



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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Tweeq]
#27600286 - 12/30/21 07:29 PM (2 years, 28 days ago) |
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Hey Tweeq, welcome to the thread. That agar is looking great, looks like you're already off to a really good start if you wanted to give indoor a shot. Glad to have more contributors to the thread.
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp



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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27602951 - 01/01/22 08:47 PM (2 years, 26 days ago) |
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Posting some minor updates from my end.
The first shot here shows one of the cherry wood jars that has been mostly taken over by the ovoid myc. The remaining cherry wood jars are much slower than this one and are probably bacterial so this one is the first to get this far.
The next shots show the current state of the RR sawdust cakes. Slow but steady, they're still chugging along.
Finally, the state of the straw sub a couple weeks after casing. About half the surface has been colonized and I expect the rest to colonize over the next week.
Unfortunately, the other tub (which had the layered cardboard in it) contamed out with both cobweb and trich and I had to remove it from the project. I'm pretty confident one of the reasons it contamed was because of the cardboard and how wet the cardboard was when I spawned it. In the future I won't use cardboard in that way even though it seems to be useful for eliciting rhizo growth quickly.
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp



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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex]
#27606601 - 01/04/22 10:49 AM (2 years, 23 days ago) |
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Today I will try to recreate the 2009 experiment by John Allen and colleagues, linked in the PDF on the first page of this thread.
This is the tek where they froze colonized ovoid mycelium and thawed it the next day while rinsing it between two layers of "soil." In my case, instead of soil I will use a pasteurized blend of peat moss, vermiculite and gypsum.
I went with pasteurizing instead of sterilizing because I have already seen trich come up once with sterilized peat and I don't want to see it again.
Here is the jar of ovoid mycelium I plan on using, this is after a freeze cycle of about 12 hours. If I had to give an honest estimate of colonization I would say it was about 90% colonized before I froze it. I didn't quite get to 100% but it slowed down enough to where I wanted to move on to fruiting.
I will spawn this jar to two tiny tupperware trays that I configured the way described in the PDF, albeit smaller.
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex]
#27606772 - 01/04/22 01:27 PM (2 years, 23 days ago) |
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Here is the result of this. I took the frozen jar of ovoid myc and split it between two small tupperware containers, each with holes drilled in the bottom.
I sandwiched the mycelium in each container between two thick layers of peat casing, then used a jar to pour cold water over this top layer so that it drains through the bottom.
I then re-cased a bit more after this soak, waited for the tubs to drain, and put them in this perlite tub.
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marcelot
Stranger

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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27608089 - 01/05/22 01:50 PM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
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Fingers crossed!
Update on my end:
1) Slow growth on corn was due to bacteria: its pretty decent now with gentamicine.
2) On the wood colonization, some things changed (and i still can't pinpoint the one largely responsible for it) that colonization speed increase significantly:
- Added way more water than field capacity (with gentamicine).
- Added a woodchip layer of Acacia Decurrens (on top of previous woodchips of Schinus terebinthifolia). It seems to love the Acacia.
Not sure which one of the two (or a mix of them) is responsible for the fast growth.
Looking forward to those pins Mycoplex :-)
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp



Registered: 10/09/21
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: marcelot]
#27608188 - 01/05/22 03:52 PM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
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Hey Marcelot, glad you were able to ID the cause of the slow growth on the corn. I think we were guessing it was bacteria earlier so good to know we were on the right track.
That is an interesting observation with the acacia, will look into that.
I am also looking forward to your pins: You are way ahead and I hope they pop out very soon for you, it would be a great win for everyone!
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rockyfungus
dirty


Registered: 03/01/21
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27608214 - 01/05/22 04:17 PM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
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A neat trick is to just throw the tray's outside till they fruit...
Fertilized potting soil or compost is preferable to casing I believe. Added grass is a good way to ensure a nice microclimate as well.
I just go agar->wood for all my woodies.
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp



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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: rockyfungus] 1
#27618395 - 01/14/22 10:49 AM (2 years, 13 days ago) |
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Hey guys, hope others have been having luck with this project.
I have been working on the same fruiting tubs from above since the last post, and am hoping for pins at some point in the near future. It seems to me that these ovoids are either slow to pin or I am missing some pinning trigger.
In the 2009 John Allen paper where he freezes and thaws the spawn, they claimed to get pins in 10 days after thawing the mycelium which I find extremely fast. For me it's been 11 days from thawing and I can't even imagine seeing pins anytime soon, it seems very far away since I am barely now seeing rhizo strands poking through the casing layer.
I am guessing that in their experiment, the patches of mycelium that they extracted from the wild were probably more "mature" than the one I am using and therefore quicker to pin.
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