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OfflineSingularFusion
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #27580674 - 12/13/21 11:54 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

hey again mycoplex

grain to wood is for sure the preferred method from my limited experience so far (other woodlovers not ovoids). Way way faster than anything else

they are gonna be all over that cherry in no time

I'll return a bit later down the road for a look

all the best :rockon:


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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #27581107 - 12/14/21 11:58 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

I think one of the things hampering your process is bacteria.  Your wood is far too wet and is the perfect environment for bacteria to flourish. All of those jars look bacterial to me. Every time I have issues with woodlovers jumping from one substrate to wood it is almost always because of bacteria.  The fact the substrates with BRF mixed in are doing much better kinda reinforces this.  Bacteria has a hard time with BRF and that would give the myc the competitive edge.

As far as your rolls of cardboard myc, I have the perfect use.  Find a spot where you want to make a chip bed, roll the whole thing out flat on the ground, and pile a few inches of chips on top of it.  Ta-daa, instant woodlover bed.


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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #27581159 - 12/14/21 12:49 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nef said:
hey again mycoplex

grain to wood is for sure the preferred method from my limited experience so far (other woodlovers not ovoids). Way way faster than anything else

they are gonna be all over that cherry in no time

I'll return a bit later down the road for a look

all the best :rockon:




Hey what's up Nef. :rockon:

Quote:

Mr Piggy said:
I think one of the things hampering your process is bacteria.  Your wood is far too wet and is the perfect environment for bacteria to flourish. All of those jars look bacterial to me. Every time I have issues with woodlovers jumping from one substrate to wood it is almost always because of bacteria.  The fact the substrates with BRF mixed in are doing much better kinda reinforces this.  Bacteria has a hard time with BRF and that would give the myc the competitive edge.

As far as your rolls of cardboard myc, I have the perfect use.  Find a spot where you want to make a chip bed, roll the whole thing out flat on the ground, and pile a few inches of chips on top of it.  Ta-daa, instant woodlover bed.




OK, this makes sense to me and I will make sure that my chips are dry next time.  Is the suggestion to not soak them to begin with?  Ie, can they just be used right out of the bag and thrown in a jar along with colonized grain? 

Thanks for the suggestion about the cardboard, for the chips in that scenario I'm assuming it's the same deal (just use them dry, out of the bag)?

Thanks for your help here, I agree that the jars are wet/bacterial too.


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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] * 2
    #27581228 - 12/14/21 02:17 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mycoplex said:
Quote:

Nef said:
hey again mycoplex

grain to wood is for sure the preferred method from my limited experience so far (other woodlovers not ovoids). Way way faster than anything else

they are gonna be all over that cherry in no time

I'll return a bit later down the road for a look

all the best :rockon:




Hey what's up Nef. :rockon:

Quote:

Mr Piggy said:
I think one of the things hampering your process is bacteria.  Your wood is far too wet and is the perfect environment for bacteria to flourish. All of those jars look bacterial to me. Every time I have issues with woodlovers jumping from one substrate to wood it is almost always because of bacteria.  The fact the substrates with BRF mixed in are doing much better kinda reinforces this.  Bacteria has a hard time with BRF and that would give the myc the competitive edge.

As far as your rolls of cardboard myc, I have the perfect use.  Find a spot where you want to make a chip bed, roll the whole thing out flat on the ground, and pile a few inches of chips on top of it.  Ta-daa, instant woodlover bed.




OK, this makes sense to me and I will make sure that my chips are dry next time.  Is the suggestion to not soak them to begin with?  Ie, can they just be used right out of the bag and thrown in a jar along with colonized grain? 

Thanks for the suggestion about the cardboard, for the chips in that scenario I'm assuming it's the same deal (just use them dry, out of the bag)?

Thanks for your help here, I agree that the jars are wet/bacterial too.





If you're making an outside patch I would just find some already outdoor chips and toss them on top of your cardboard.  Buying smoker chips by the bag can add up and I've noticed that they don't get colonized as fast as other weathered chips.  I would never use dry chips for anything myco.

I don't mean you need to use dry chips in your jars, I'm saying what you have is excessively wet.  There should not be extra moisture droplets in the jar.  You want everything at field capacity like with coir in a tub.

I would focus on getting your cultures very VERY clean on your plates, then making very clean grain spawn.  Clean spawn is key.  The most success I've had with woodlovers is going to grain and inoculating large chip beds with it.  It seems once I make an outdoor bed and the grow is basically out of my hands it does better.  :lol::shrug:


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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #27581454 - 12/14/21 05:56 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks again for the advice Mr Piggy.  I am trying this out again with another batch of wood chips that I will soak but let dry longer.  I also am trying this by taking some garden mulch (wood chips with some other organic matter), sterilizing that, and trying that out as a wood source.

I will probably keep the cherry wood jars that appear wet just so I can check out this growth pattern.  Before I tried this, it never occurred to me how interesting it is for mycelium to move from grain to wood, two totally different worlds.

I will probably use chips from that same mulch formula for the cardboard project too.

If the wood endeavors here end up being not so fruitful, I may try to focus on grass as a nutrient for this species.  Even though it's known as a woodlover, it appears to also have a strong liking for grass/straw like others have mentioned earlier in the thread.


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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex]
    #27581576 - 12/14/21 08:00 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Hey guys, here are a few more updates on the ovoid "cardboard burrito" and the ovoid straw bed.

The myc has begun poking through the walls of the cardboard from the inside.  I put an additional layer of cardboard around the outer log, so unless I'm mistaken the myc that is poking through the sides here is actually doing so from a couple layers of cardboard deep in the log.

The straw bed is also being colonized, and this tub has absolutely zero wood of any kind.  I tried this out from reading elpico's work earlier in this thread and I hope to be able to case this if it gets colonized. 

I am curious though:  Do we know whether ovoids truly are "woodlovers" or not?  It seems that they do readily colonize wood, but that if they can be fruited entirely on straw the way shown earlier in this thread I'm curious if they are more of a grass lover and the wood is more tangentially surrounding it in the wild (ie, it does grow in the vicinity of trees and might even consume their chips, branches, or twigs, but perhaps it's primarily a grass lover?).  Just a question I have been pondering.



Edited by Mycoplex (12/14/21 08:06 PM)


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Offlinemarcelot
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #27582782 - 12/15/21 05:09 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quick update on my side:

1) Can confirm elpico's observation on FAE: circulating air increased growth speed significantly (changed things from "this is a disaster" to OK situation).

2) Will try grass as well (currently on sawdust of local hardwood).

Mycoplex, can you notice a difference between growth speed on wood vs grass?


Edited by marcelot (12/15/21 05:13 PM)


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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: marcelot]
    #27582957 - 12/15/21 07:55 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

marcelot said:
Quick update on my side:

1) Can confirm elpico's observation on FAE: circulating air increased growth speed significantly (changed things from "this is a disaster" to OK situation).

2) Will try grass as well (currently on sawdust of local hardwood).

Mycoplex, can you notice a difference between growth speed on wood vs grass?




Nice!  To be honest I have not noticed a pattern one way or another when it comes to wood vs straw so far:  Both the cardboard log and the straw bed above were colonized the same day and both are doing alright it seems.  Maybe the cardboard might be outpacing the straw by just a bit.

What are the rest of the fruiting parameters you are using now that you have increased FAE?  Is it a woodchip-based grow or something else?  I know you were mentioning spore germination before but when it comes to your fruiting setup it would be nice to know any details you could provide!


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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex]
    #27584922 - 12/17/21 01:32 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Hey everyone, here are some project updates from my end.  If anyone else has updates looking forward to hearing from others too.

The first shots here show the RR Cakes / Sawdust cakes.  These initially took a long time to start colonizing and originally started growing only underneath the dry verm layer (more FAE?).  After about 2 weeks, mycelium is now poking out from lower in the jar, like how you might expect a typical LC inoculation to look. 

The difference between ovoid and cubensis mycelium is that the mycelium always started growing directly under the dry verm layer (I wrote about this in another post), and only after a few weeks did it start poking out from lower in the jar.  The growth pattern itself seems altogether different than what I've seen with PF Tek using cubes.



The second group shows how the overly-wet grain + cherry wood jars are coming along.  These are probably bacterial at this point but the ovoids are still starting to tear through the cherry wood.  I tried to show this in some of the photos.  I have an "updated" version of this formula (using drier chips) but it's not quite ready to show yet since it's less than a week old.



The last photos show the cardboard log and straw colonization (both spawned the same day).

I think I'd like to take the cardboard log and create a "small" personal-sized outdoor bed with it.  What I mean by this is probably buying one of those length-wise flower containers that hang on balconies and use that as a chip bed. 




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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] * 3
    #27586792 - 12/18/21 11:37 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Hey all, this is a shot of ovoid mycelium jumping from rye berries to wood.

This is a different jar and different formula from the overly-wet ones that are bacterial earlier (the ones with the cherry wood).  In this formula, I am using sterilized garden mulch (literally the type you buy at any garden store).

I did not soak these chips at all prior to sterilizing them.  They had an inherent moisture content that I could feel when handling it, and I did not want to add to it.  I have about a handful of jars with this approach.



As of tonight, I can see metabolites on the other jars with the cherry wood, confirming that those are for sure bacterial.  I'm going to let them colonize and spawn them to a "miniature" outdoor bed.  If I get to this point I'd love to show what I mean by this.


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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex]
    #27587349 - 12/19/21 02:19 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

@elpico Hey elpico, any chance you can share some extra detail about how you cased your all-straw ovoid pots from page 2 in the thread?  Was it a CVG/coir type of casing like in the Moricz thread? 

Do you have any advice on how to identify whether the straw is "fully" colonized by the ovoids and ready for casing?  Is it supposed to be entirely white almost like a grain jar would? Do you know whether I should be leaving the lid open/ajar during this period, or is it better to keep it closed?  Straw is something I'm not familiar with and I seem to recall discussion where people suggest colonizing straw with FAE. 

I know my shoebox is a long ways out but was trying to feel out exactly how far along it is.  Here are some shots of it today, along with a shot of what the bottom looks like.

There is some clear rhizo growth along the top of the straw, it's interesting how this species goes from normal myc to rhizo as soon as it detects an alternate nutrient source available.  It seems to behave this way when going from grain to cardboard too.



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Invisibleelpico
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #27587525 - 12/19/21 04:45 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Straw can be tricky to work with, as it is very prone to trich, and also dries out easily.  I would cover the tray during colonization or the surface will easily dry out and be prone to incomplete colonization/contamination.  Just a few holes here and there in the lid/foil, etc. for air exchange, just like any other sub.  Your last two pics look like 100% colonization, the first two look incomplete on the surface. The casing I used was nothing special, likely some mix of cactus soil/peat/vermiculite.  That mycelium looks like its going after the straw!


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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: elpico]
    #27587554 - 12/19/21 05:11 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

elpico said:
Straw can be tricky to work with, as it is very prone to trich, and also dries out easily.  I would cover the tray during colonization or the surface will easily dry out and be prone to incomplete colonization/contamination.  Just a few holes here and there in the lid/foil, etc. for air exchange, just like any other sub.  Your last two pics look like 100% colonization, the first two look incomplete on the surface. The casing I used was nothing special, likely some mix of cactus soil/peat/vermiculite.  That mycelium looks like its going after the straw!




Thank you as always brother.  I know it's not always easy to get hold of others on threads here so I am blessed anytime there is a response like this.  Appreciate it!


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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] * 2
    #27587771 - 12/19/21 08:48 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Hi there. I was invited to share a simple tek I used to successfully propagate ovoids outdoors. Maybe it can be helpful to someone.


During the shroomery hack I found a lot of ovoids fruits in the wild, but they were too far gone. The mycelium on the butts looked good though so I harvested them anyway.

I mixed the rotted fruits with fresh wood chips and compost. Maybe a 75/25 ratio.

I put the mix in a Rubbermaid container and filled it with water. I let it all soak for 24 hours.

Then I dumped half of the mix in a cardboard box, the water drained naturally. The other half I dumped in the same wood line near the box.

The box fruited heavily. I wasn't expecting it. I was late for much of them. I did have a decent yield still, see pics from above post. I've been finding a few tiny ones every couple days or so since. The box is in bad shape but the chips are still in a box shape.

The area where I dumped chips had mycelium but did not fruit.


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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #27587951 - 12/20/21 05:59 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Transferred colonized agarn to corn. Which did grow quite slowly, but steadily.

Unfortunately when i did a grain to grain transfer, both jars were contaminated
with green mold.

Did manage to transfer some grain to a bed of hardwood sawdust (see pictures),
which is colonizing the sawdust (there are some infected grains, but looks alright
in general).

Yesterday transferred the remaining partially contaminated grains (from the jars) to:

1) Bucket with grass.

2) To the outdoors, nearby stream in a few locations with sawdust, with decomposing wood,
etc...

Also started a liquid culture inspired by you, but unfortunately its quite slow there.

Anyway, waiting for rye berry's to arrive to start another grain spawn from the
remaining agar.

Thanks for starting the thread, invaluable information! 

Ah, regarding bacteria contamination, yeah same here as well... got some gentamicine
which helped (next time will cook the grains with gentamicine so it penetrates the
grains).





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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: marcelot]
    #27588357 - 12/20/21 01:50 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Hey Marcelot, good work with the project even with the setbacks.  I have a couple bacterial jars that I need to get rid of similarly (they're full of colonized grain and cherry woodchips).  I might spawn them to a small flower pot outdoors and layer it with additional woodchips, but in general do the same thing you did: spawn the bacterial jars outdoors somewhere.

For the slow colonization of the corn, was the colonization slow throughout the whole process or only at the beginning?  I notice that whenever the mycelium of this species switches environments/nutrients, there seems to be a longer recovery period, followed by slow growth, but then it should eventually build momentum.  I think the only exception to this I have seen is when you go from grain to wood which for whatever reason triggers something that causes tons of rhizo growth to start appearing very very quickly.

I'm asking because possibly the slow growth in the corn stage was a result of some bacteria or contam that was already there before the g2g transfer (just an idea, it could be totally off).

If you continue to see that slow colonization with corn, definitely try the rye berries when you get them, the ovoids do seem to like this grain for reasons I don't understand.

Good job on the sawdust, is that an outdoor bed that you put the grain directly to?

On my side, just wanted to share a different concept that I had the idea to try below.  This is a bit different than some of the jars I have previously shared so I wanted to mention my thought process for this.

This is a jar that was sterilized with both rye berries and wood chips simultaneously.  Both were in the jar, layered as shown, then sterilized prior to inoculation.  When I inoculated the jars with ovoid LC, I shot the LC against the walls of the quart jar so that it falls down into the rye berries first.

My thought is that the ovoids will first colonize the rye berries, then gradually move onto the wood, all in one jar.  I have no clue what this will yield and I know it's unorthodox but I wanted to try it out.



Edited by Mycoplex (12/20/21 02:08 PM)


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Offlinemarcelot
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #27591910 - 12/23/21 01:53 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Hi Mycoplex,

Sorry for taking so long to answer:

> "For the slow colonization of the corn, was the colonization slow throughout the whole process or only at the beginning? "

It does pick up pace after sometime.

Yes, it could have been contamination. Added some gentamicine to another corn trial, lets see how that
goes.

> "Good job on the sawdust, is that an outdoor bed that you put the grain directly to?"

From the pictures? That is indoor.

About your wood/grain mix idea, seems similar to this part of
the "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms" book:

"When trying to match a mushroom strain with an available substrate,
I place a small sample of the substrate into the agar media formula.
Upon exposure, the mushroom mycelium generates enzymes and acids to
break down the proposed food source. Once acclimated, the mycelium
carries a genetic memory of the end substrate to which it is destined.
With Shiitake, Enokitake, Maitake, and Reishi, I acquaint the mushroom
mycelium with the host substrate by introducing to the media a 1-2
gram sample of the sawdust directly into the liquid fermentation
vessels. This liquid inoculum is then used to generate grain spawn. I am
convinced that this method empowers the mushroom mycelium."


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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: marcelot] * 4
    #27592496 - 12/23/21 11:40 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Hey Marcelot, thanks for the extra info.  Good luck as always.  For the indoor tub, do you mist/fan it, or do you mostly leave it covered and not touch it?

Sharing a few more ovoid pics from my side.

These first pics show the colonized straw that I have since cased once it was around 100% colonized.  It was cased with a mix of peat moss, worm castings, and sawdust. 

The non-straw tub is the one where I took the colonized cardboard from earlier in the thread and layered it between woodchips and the same peat moss/sawdust blend.

Question (similar to above):  Should these be opened/misted/fanned semi-regularly? I can't imagine it's totally hands off.



The next pics show the grain to wood jars, including the bacterial cherry wood ones.  One of them appears to be winning the bacteria fight (first one pictured) because the cherry wood chips are getting totally colonized by rhizo myc.



The darker wood jars are regular old garden mulch which is also getting taken over but only on a couple of these jars....maybe this wood is TOO dry and I overcompensated for the wet cherry wood.

Next shots show the RR cakes coming along nicely I think...Notice how the myc started very small and tiny toward the top of the jar, but has since started moving throughout the jar and popping out here and there.  It took quite a bit of time to get to this point.



Finally, some shots of ovoids colonizing cardboard as I shared in the Woodlovers thread.  I plan to put these to woodchips.



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OfflineMycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #27594397 - 12/25/21 08:21 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Hi all,

The straw tub appears to already be colonizing through the casing layer I have applied.  I applied this casing after the straw was about 100% colonized and it appears to already be reaching out through the casing.  I am keeping the lid of this shoebox ajar most of the time (open at an angle).



The larger tub (below) unfortunately came down with cobweb mold today, which was heartbreaking.  This was the tub that I layered with woodchips/cardboard/peatmoss.

I isolated that tub, removed the part of the top substrate that had the cobweb, then misted the entire surface of the substrate and the tub itself with a fine mist of hydrogen peroxide. I believe the cobweb came up because I kept the lid too closed and there was not enough airflow.  I left the lid completely open for tonight so the top can dry even more.

I expect the cobweb to come back probably so this tub of the project might be dead for now, I will see how it looks tomorrow.



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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex]
    #27595503 - 12/26/21 06:20 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Hi all, this is the top of the larger tub that came down with cobweb mold earlier in the week.

This is after I sprayed it with a fine mist of hydrogen peroxide and left the lid open for about 24 hours.  I also scraped off a thin layer of this top casing (which is peat moss and sawdust).

I have this tub isolated and will keep an eye out for recurring cobweb.



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