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Mycoplex
Sporocarp


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Indoor Ovoid Fruiting - Community Cultivation Notes 13
#27559017 - 11/26/21 11:29 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Indoor Ovoid Fruiting Community Introduction The purpose of this thread is to track notes, experiences, and other relevant information related to cultivating Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. The focus is primarily on cultivating it indoors, but since this will require extensive knowledge of the species in the wild, all kinds of notes are welcome. This thread started as a way for me to gather advice about fruiting this species indoors, but when I noticed that there was wider interest on our board when it comes to indoor cultivation of ovoids, I wanted to make this more of a general grow log that we can all contribute to in whatever form that takes.
Agar Recipes This section tracks general notes about successful cultivation of ovoideocystidiata on agar specifically, including conditions, agar recipes, and anything else valuable.
The general consensus based on experience in this thread is that ovoideocystidiata can readily germinate at room temperature (68-72 Fahrenheit or 20-22 Celsius) with multiple agar recipes that you might already be familiar with.
Light Malt Extract (LME) From user Land Trout: "As far as agar goes I’ve only used regular lme agar 10:10:500 or 8:8:500 and it’s always worked. Like 100% of the plates germ at room temp. I don’t do anything different with my woodloving psilocybes, they are right next to my pans and cubes and gourmets all on the same recipe."
Wild Bird Seed (WBS) Soak 1 litre of WBS grain soak water, boiled down to ~300ml, filtered, added 10 grams of agar, then topped it up to 500ml.
 Ovoideocystidiata colonizing agar made with WBS soak water (Infinite Monkeys).
Diluted WBS Soak + Nutritional Yeast 50% diluted grain(WBS) soak agar, with a pinch of nutritional yeast.
 Ovoideocystidiata colonizing agar made with diluted grain soak water and nutritional yeast (MysticMycologist).
LME + Yeast + Agar (a) 20 grams LME, 2 grams nutritional yeast, 10 grams agar per 500ml
 Ovoideocystidiata colonizing agar made with LME and Yeast (Infinite Monkeys).
LME + Yeast + Agar (b) 7 grams LME, 1 gram nutritional yeast, 10 grams agar per 500ml
 Ovoideocystidiata colonizing agar made with LME and yeast (Infinite Monkeys).
Vegemite Agar
 Ovoideocystidiata colonizing agar made with Vegemite (worimi1).
Straw Water Agar
 Ovoideocystidiata colonizing potato flake agar made with straw water.
Liquid Culture Successful indoor cultivation of Ovoideocystidiata on LC is straightforward, and can be done with a number of liquid culture recipes that you may already be familiar with:
In general, the goal is to mix 4% of the chosen nutrient into the volume of LC you are sterilizing. If you know the capacity of your liquid culture jar (32oz, 16oz, etc.), you can convert this amount of grams, then calculate 4% of this value to determine the amount of nutrient to use.
Agar/LC to Grain This method works well for ovoids. In fact, it's suggested on multiple other woodlover threads that putting a woodlover species to grain prior to putting it to wood is ideal, and that seems to empirically be the case with ovoids. Putting agar or LC straight to wood might work sometimes but is comparatively slow.
Grain choice should be flexible. In this thread, rye berries have been prepared and used according to normal procedures. The resulting grain jars are colonized and subsequently used in a number of other methods.
When preparing grain jars, avoid using lids that have overly-restrictive filters like syringe filters. These can inhibit and slow ovoid colonization. A filter that uses a single or double layer of micropore tape is generally sufficient and leads to quick colonization. If you are experiencing jars that are stalling during colonization, consider the type of jar filter being used.
  
This photo shows Ovoideocystidiata colonizing rye berries and Cherry wood.
 Ovoideocystidiata colonizing wheat (InfiniteMonkeys)
RR Cakes
RR Cakes are a way to adapt the classic PF Tek recipe for use with woodlovers. The general principle is to substitute the vermiculite that you would normally use in PF Tek with sawdust that is fine enough to function as a suitable substitute. For the purpose of keeping these notes concise, the whole process won't be outlined but if you have ever made PF Tek cakes, you will recognize how to identify whether or not the woodlover mix is at field capacity. For that reason, it helps to have experience with classic PF Tek before trying to modify it to work for woodlovers.
           These photos show Ovoideocystidiata colonizing "RR Cakes" made of hardwood sawdust and BRF.
Straw
Ovoids readily colonize pasteurized straw substrate.
      
 Ovoids colonizing straw substrates in various stages of growth.
Straw and Wood Chips
      Ovoids colonizing straw substrates in various stages of growth. The straw has been layered with pasteurized wood chips and companion plants have been sown directly into the casing layer.
 Ovoideocystidiata colonizing tubs composed of coir, straw, vermiculite, wood shavings. The tubs have been layered with woodchips. (Tumerz) .
Straw and Potting Soil
  Ovoids colonizing a substrate composed of pasteurized potting soil and straw.
Casing Layer
Ovoids appear to derive benefit from being cased, like other species.
Casing recipes are likely flexible, with the general idea being to case the substrate with a thin layer of nutrient-devoid substrate mix (like vermiculite and peat moss, or Jiffy Mix).
Casing layers should be pasteurized and adjusted with lime as usual.
When casing Ovoid substrate, it helps to visualize what the natural counterpart of this might be: An Ovoid bed being covered in mud after a heavy thaw or river overflow event.
 In this example, rhizoRider uses a piece of wax paper to simulate a leaf layer. Technique provided by 7Suns.
Companion Plants
Some cultivators choose to simultaneously grow simple "companion" plants with indoor ovoids. These plants (like White Clover or Parsley) are generally easy to maintain and can be used as an indication of substrate moisture level.
As the roots of these plants decay, they provide nutrients for the underlying ovoid mycelium.
   White Clover germinating on an indoor Ovoid tub.
  Shade-loving grasses growing alongside Psilocybe Cyanescens mycelium (Nef).
Transplanting from Outdoor Beds
Existing outdoor ovoid beds can be used to fruit ovoids indoors by transplanting a subset of the bed indoors and ensuring that conditions are sufficient.
 holofractal's 3'x3' outdoor Ovoid bed.
 Land Trout's work with outdoor smart pots. The pots can be moved from bed to bed as a means of inoculation and expansion.
   holofractal's work transplanting a subset of an outdoor ovoid bed for indoor fruiting.
   Pnwmushroomnomad's indoor Ovoids, transplanted from outdoor spawn.
Indoor Fruiting Gallery
 Indoor Ovoid fruiting (elpico).
References
This is a collated list of references or resources that have come up in discussion in this thread.
moricz - Woodlover Magic Cellar Series
PDF: Allen, John W., Gartz, Jochen., Molter, Dan, and Prakitsin Sihanonth: The Occurrence, Cultivation, and Chemistry of Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, a new Bluing Species (Agaricales) from Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia
This PDF document is from 2009 and details an early attempt at cultivating ovoids indoors by John Allen and colleagues. One thing that is cool about this paper is the methodology they use to replicate the outdoor environment they found their mycelium sample in. They do this by freezing mycelium, then thawing it in conditions that resemble a flood that embeds wood chips in clayey soil.
Wikipedia: Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata
Edited by Mycoplex (01/24/24 10:20 PM)
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SingularFusion


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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27559113 - 11/27/21 02:51 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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sounds like fun, I'll stick around if you don't mind, and see if you manage to make anything work out
holofractal has a similar indoor experiment but I think he is using cyan, but maybe you can still learn something from his thread, which is still in the earlyish stages
I am trying open basement fruiting of cyan myself (basement gets very cold), was some large trays I brought in from outdoors which never fruited before the freeze hit, as they were made pretty late
all the best with it man, I'll drop back in in a bit
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marcelot
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27565662 - 12/02/21 05:00 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mycoplex,
In a similar situation here, although with success germinating the spores and grain cultivation. The temperature range is 60-65F, so a wine refrigerator seems more suitable.
Eagerly waiting for the grains to colonize some wood chips :-)
There were replies to some of my questions regarding ovoid fruiting in the "Official Woodlovers thread".
The information i have so far is:
1) Reports of fruiting from frozen/thaw cycle indoors.
2) That on nature the pinning trigger seems to be a temperature increase with high humidity (see the thread above for the details).
3) Freezing is not necessary on nature (because ovoids fruit even without freezing).
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marcelot
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: marcelot] 1
#27565663 - 12/02/21 05:00 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Attched to the previous message is image of germinated spores at 60-65F (sorry could not attached jpeg image).
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: marcelot] 1
#27565770 - 12/02/21 07:24 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Looks interesting, keep it updated.
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27566852 - 12/02/21 08:27 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey all, I really appreciate the responses and feedback here, I am more than happy with the info that everyone above provided and I now have more info to work off of thanks to everyone.
Here is a quick update on my part. I have since spawned a bunch of these "Sawdust PF Cakes." I believe they are called RR Cakes colloquially, and I created this by using the classic PF Tek recipe with Oak sawdust (finely ground) substituted for the vermiculite.
The resultant cakes look kind of odd if you are used to PF Tek proper, but I believe they should be functionally sound.
Here are a few shots of what the cakes look like in varying levels of light. They were inoculated yesterday with an Ovoid LC I have been managing.
Edited by Mycoplex (03/07/22 11:02 AM)
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marcelot
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#27572082 - 12/07/21 05:10 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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And it moves to wood
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marcelot
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: marcelot] 1
#27572085 - 12/07/21 05:15 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Corn to wood... Apparently it grows faster on wood than corn.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: marcelot] 1
#27572131 - 12/07/21 06:50 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Upload your pics to the site if you want people to look at them. Typically woodlovers do move faster on wood than grain.
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27572353 - 12/07/21 11:09 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey guys, I had to go back to the drawing board with the sawdust cakes I pictured above because I didn't like how they turned out: If you look closely you can see that the substrate is very dry, and you can see bits of whole rice from where I did not grind the BRF long enough. On top of this, they didn't colonize at all after a week or so even though I inoculated with an LC (not spores) that I knew was good and healthy.
I since remade these with a different wood source (I expanded wood pellets) and made a revised version of these woodlover PF Tek jars. I'll post some pictures later after inoculating them, but I think I was able to achieve the consistency I was looking for this time around (it looks and feels closer to the field capacity of PF Tek).
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Ps.NoName
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27572356 - 12/07/21 11:12 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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After failing with agar a few times. I went ovoid spore right into a PF tek jar with some saw dust added. They all bacterial contam'd to some extent, but I got enough good myceliun starting material to transplant to wood chips. Good luck
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Ps.NoName]
#27572360 - 12/07/21 11:15 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ps.NoName said: After failing with agar a few times. I went ovoid spore right into a PF tek jar with some saw dust added. They all bacterial contam'd to some extent, but I got enough good myceliun starting material to transplant to wood chips.
Hey, that sounds like you at least got further than I've gotten. I was wondering if you could provide more detail about the wood chips part of your process?
For example, do you take woodchips, soak them, sterilize them, and inoculate (indoors)? Or do you put the woodchips outdoors directly? Sorry for the petty questions, this particular process is not one I am familiar with (I am a novice with woodlovers). I might be overcomplicating things but I basically want to know more about how woodchips can be used indoors specifically.
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MysticMycologist
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27572368 - 12/07/21 11:20 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Looking forward to this. I have hopes to start a bed outdoors next year. Did you have any trouble germinating the spores? Did you just streak agar, any special recipe?
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Mycoplex
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Quote:
MysticMycologist said:
Looking forward to this. I have hopes to start a bed outdoors next year. Did you have any trouble germinating the spores? Did you just streak agar, any special recipe?
I found the spore germination part the easiest, but I know others have had difficulties from posts I've seen. Here are the exact parameters I used for germinating the spores:
I used a spore swab and streaked several plates. My agar recipe was the typical "potato flakes + corn syrup + agar" recipe. I have successfully germinates the spores in temperatures of the low 70s (like 69-72 F) and have also germinated them at a higher temperature (in a pseduo-incubator) closer to 80 F.
Once I got germination, I started creating LC out of them. I did not do any rhizo transfers, complicated isolations, or anything like that. My primary concern was preserving the mycelium in case of failure, which I anticipate a lot of for this project (it's a learning experience).
The mycelium of this species just seems to grow differently than cubes and it doesn't seem to lend itself well to hunting for rhizo sectors and transferring them out: The mycelium seems slower, more delicate, and tends to creep slowly across the agar. My experience with this species on agar is that the colonization sometimes has the appearance of a flower (like a series of flower petals radiating from the center). I'll try to take a pic sometime of a plate I'm ok with opening.
Once the LCs have colonized and I've tested it, I transferred to even more LCs to have additional ones on hand. I tend to go overboard with backups but I would rather do that than have to purchase or trade regularly for more spores.
Edited by Mycoplex (12/07/21 11:50 AM)
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anatomality
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27572388 - 12/07/21 11:44 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Indoor woodlovers are super interesting to me, I'll be following this thread closely. I've had some Wavy Caps on agar for the longest time, but I keep failing at getting it to jump to wood for some reason.
I'm trying a mix of soya and expanding wood dust next time...
Good luck with these 'voids.
-------------------- “The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: anatomality]
#27572396 - 12/07/21 11:52 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
anatomality said: Indoor woodlovers are super interesting to me, I'll be following this thread closely. I've had some Wavy Caps on agar for the longest time, but I keep failing at getting it to jump to wood for some reason.
I'm trying a mix of soya and expanding wood dust next time...
Good luck with these 'voids.
This is similar to my experience with indoor woodlovers: It seems easy enough (sometimes) to get the agar going, but "something" happens when you start transferring that agar. It's like certain outdoor woodlover species agar is more sensitive to being messed with or moved around (just a conjecture).
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Land Trout
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 4
#27572526 - 12/07/21 02:19 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cool! Hope you succeed! Just please continue with updates no matter what happens. I’ve got a similar project just In a greenhouse, but still have a lot of control over the climate. I’ve filled table beds with conifer chips and colonized sawdust blocks with some colonized smart pots on top, cased the chips with used greenhouse soil planted with a pasture mix. Ive always done spores>agar>grain>wood substrate of some form or other, or agar to sawdust.
 I really like using those smart pots, you can see how the myc runs through them and you can just move them from one chip bed to the next.
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marcelot
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#27572711 - 12/07/21 05:33 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Can't upload images... Perhaps its because did not send 10 messages? Ah, but this is the 10th message, so lets hope i can attach images now!
Allowed extensions: .7z .aac .ac3 .avi .azw3 .chm .djvu .doc .docx .epub .flac .flv .gz .kmz .m4a .m4v .mobi .mov .mp3 .mp4 .mpeg .mpg .nzb .odt .ogg .pdf .pgp .ppt .psd .ra .rar .rm .torrent .txt .wav .wma .wmv .xpi .zip
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marcelot
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 2
#27572748 - 12/07/21 06:02 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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"The mycelium of this species just seems to grow differently than cubes and it doesn't seem to lend itself well to hunting for rhizo sectors and transferring them out: The mycelium seems slower, more delicate, and tends to creep slowly across the agar. My experience with this species on agar is that the colonization sometimes has the appearance of a flower (like a series of flower petals radiating from the center). I'll try to take a pic sometime of a plate I'm ok with opening."
Yes, i was kind of frustrated by that speed, after reading about ovoids that: "especially since ovoids have a reputation as an aggressive colonizer".
But, once they hit wood, its a different picture! Then the mycelium becomes fast and aggressive.
About LC to wood: i've read comments from other people on "The Woodlovers thread" who had failure on agar to wood. Never tried it myself (began a LC yesterday as well... however perhaps they/we are missing some ingredients):
Stamets' Liquid Culture Media for Wood with 750 ml of water and sterilized:
1000 ml. water 40 grams barley malt sugar 3-5 grams hardwood sawdust 2 grams yeast 1 gram calcium sulfate
(only used honey myself, will try the recipe above someday).
About wood preparation:
https://www.zamnesia.com/blog-grow-magic-mushrooms-outdoors-n1678
(what i did was: eucalyptus chips with 1h sterilization and close to 8h soaked).
About colonization of wood:
As suggested on "Woodlovers thread", followed the agar -> grain -> wood route (and again, its _slow_ on agar and grain). Just throw the colonized grain to (prepared) wood.
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Mr Piggy
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Land Trout] 1
#27572797 - 12/07/21 06:29 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Land Trout said:
I really like using those smart pots, you can see how the myc runs through them and you can just move them from one chip bed to the next.
I'd +5 you again if I could just for that tip.
--------------------
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