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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mr Piggy] 1
#27572809 - 12/07/21 06:44 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Really happy that others find this thread interesting too.
I wanted to provide a few videos here that I've been using to get better acquainted with ovoid habitat. Some of the videos don't actually reference ovoids specifically in the title but go into great detail about them, so I was pleasantly surprised.
I haven't embedded the videos here to keep this neat, but here are each of them and a description of each:
"How to PROPERLY identify a magic mushroom" Lots of high definition shots of ovoids in nature. Most of this video is actually about ovoids specifically which I was surprised by, it hardly even mentions cubes if at all.
"Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata and habitat" Another cool video that shows how this species appears to have close proximity to muddy water or otherwise wetter soils. Again, notice the abundance of live plants nearby.
"2021 Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata in Pennsylvania" Another video, this one is rather hard to follow but you can see some of the same characteristics (leaf litter, plants).
One thing that stood out to me about this species from these videos is that it seems to have a relationship not only with woodchips, but plants as well to some capacity. Perhaps it's not feeding on the dead plant roots or something the way we think semilanceata might, but I couldn't help but notice that there was almost always live greenery nearby in addition to what we know is the main nutrient source (wood, wood chips).
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Mr Piggy
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27572929 - 12/07/21 08:37 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I found a patch about 60'x60' in Portland one time. They were in very soggy and muddy woodchips, the kind where your feet sink down a few inches. They do seem to thrive in very wet habitats.
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MysticMycologist
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mr Piggy] 1
#27572941 - 12/07/21 08:52 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Great videos! Thanks MycoPlex. I can’t wait to grow these bad boys in my flower beds. Woodlovers just hit different.
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Lemgrub
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I spent some time looking in the hunting and identification forum and their seasonal ovoid hunting threads contain good info about the habitat in which to find them. Grows near streams on wood litter often under box alder and Japanese knotweed. I found a few good areas for taking a look this spring.
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MysticMycologist
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Lemgrub] 1
#27572965 - 12/07/21 09:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wooded flood planes near lowland creeks and rivers, with box adler and lots of dead wood. Spot on.
I love reading in the hunting subforum. So many enthusiastic people. I would love to find a wild ovoid in my state. I don’t think one has been confirmed, but I’m sure they grow in the southern areas by the river. You can bet my ass will be looking come spring. I already scoped out a few nice habitats from the road.
I’m kind of obsessed with ovoids and woodlovers in general at the moment.
-------------------- Two eyes to look, One eye to see. Prying open my third eye
Edited by MysticMycologist (12/07/21 09:30 PM)
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Mycoplex
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One last update from me for tonight. Here are the re-done "RR/Sawdust Cakes" that I said I would be replacing the earlier ones in the thread with (left photo).
The left picture is not very clear and the substrate is still fresh from PC, but you can compare it to the ones earlier in the thread that were much drier.
In the second photo (quart jars) I am experimenting with another substrate blend for ovoids. This one is a sterilized mix of woodchips and expanded wood pellets (sawdust). About 70% of the jar is sawdust, with the remaining 30% being woodchips that I threw in. Instead of wheat bran, I used coffee as a nitrogen source and a bit of gypsum.
Both the sawdust cakes and the quart jars were inoculated with Ovoid LC tonight.
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Land Trout]
#27574009 - 12/08/21 07:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Land Trout said: I’ve filled table beds with conifer chips and colonized sawdust blocks with some colonized smart pots on top, cased the chips with used greenhouse soil planted with a pasture mix. ... I really like using those smart pots, you can see how the myc runs through them and you can just move them from one chip bed to the next.
Hey Land Trout, any chance you could tell us a bit more about this process? It sounds from the description that both the smart pots and the underlying table of conifer chips are both colonized, so when moving the pots from one bed to another, what is the ultimate goal?
Thanks in advance, and the photos you've taken are really great.
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Land Trout
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 2
#27574057 - 12/08/21 08:28 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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The chips arnt colonized yet. I’ve added colonized blocks of sawdust, and the colonized fabric pots are like movable spawn bags. Once there’s an established bed or patch they can be moved to another unclonized chip bed. This is a new experement I’m trying, but it’s working pretty good. I have power in the greenhouse, so I might run a little heater in there in the early mornings to try and get the stuff to colonize a little faster.
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Land Trout] 1
#27574074 - 12/08/21 08:50 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Land Trout said: The chips arnt colonized yet. I’ve added colonized blocks of sawdust, and the colonized fabric pots are like movable spawn bags. Once there’s an established bed or patch they can be moved to another unclonized chip bed. This is a new experement I’m trying, but it’s working pretty good. I have power in the greenhouse, so I might run a little heater in there in the early mornings to try and get the stuff to colonize a little faster.
Thanks for this extra detail! This is a very cool concept like others have also pointed out. Let us know how this goes, will ya?
Here are a few new pics from my end.
These first few photos show ovoideocystidiata colonizing rye berries (no wood at this point). These were inoculated with ovoid LC and agar. I mention both because I supplemented the earlier agar inoculation with LC since it seemed to be going super slow at the time. I'd like to take this colonized product and try putting it to woodchips perhaps.
These next pics show ovoideocystidiata colonizing the "RR Cakes" mentioned in this thread. I'm not 100% sure how to describe or make sense of this growth pattern, so maybe others who have grown ovoids more can chime in. These were inoculated with 100% LC (no spores).
What I am noticing here is that all the jars show their initial germination directly underneath the dry verm layer (this dry verm layer is the only occurrence of verm in this substrate mix). This appears to be the case even though I know for certain that LC fell through the sides of the jar like a typical PF Tek inoculation. Normally I would be concerned with growth showing up here (ie, a breach of the lids/filters) but in this case I think it's definitely ovoids being themselves since this is consistent across all of the jars.
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elpico
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 5
#27576771 - 12/11/21 12:24 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you're after indoor fruiting, ovoids are definitely a good choice. I have a clone culture of a wild fruit which fruits readily indoors at room temperature(low 70's). Not wanting to derail your thread, but I thought you might find the following info useful: What I did was I spawned grain to pasteurized straw and cased(idea inspired my moricz's cellar grows). This was kept in a monotub and misted as needed. Pins showed up after six to eight weeks. The fruits kept aborting in the monotub, so I moved the pot into a greenhouse that I have dialed for pans and zapotecorum(high humidity/high FAE). The fruits thrived and flushed 3-4 times, every two weeks:
I have not tried this method with other ovoid varieties, so it's possible that I got lucky with this particular clone
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: elpico]
#27576861 - 12/11/21 02:53 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey elpico, those are some awesome looking fruits! Those are some great looking indoor ovoids.
I was wondering if you can give any more info about that pasteurized straw substrate that you used in the monotub: Other than straw, what else was in the substrate? Manure? Was there any wood at all anywhere?
When you switched from monotub to pots, did you end up changing any of this substrate or is it the same? For example I don't see a lot of straw in the pot photo so was wondering if its all cased over or if you switched to something else.
Again thanks for these pics and hope you can spare some extra detail!
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elpico
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27577233 - 12/11/21 11:40 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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The substrate is nothing more than millet spawned to pasteurized straw. The ovoid mycelium tears through straw and colonizes pretty quickly. This was then cased. The cased flower pots(which you see in the pictures) were placed in a mono to help hold humidity. There was a good balance of misting/wetting of the casing, and evaporation. Pins formed under these conditions, but the lack of FAE in the mono resulted in aborted fruits. So the high FAE was definitely required for healthy fruit formation/spore production. The indoor martha-style GH provided the right conditions. I've repeated the grow with similar results. P. allenii was run alongside the ovoids, but failed to pin indoors. Hope this helps.
Great thread, by the way! Looking forward to updates on your projects.
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: elpico]
#27577263 - 12/11/21 12:11 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
elpico said: The substrate is nothing more than millet spawned to pasteurized straw. The ovoid mycelium tears through straw and colonizes pretty quickly. This was then cased. The cased flower pots(which you see in the pictures) were placed in a mono to help hold humidity. There was a good balance of misting/wetting of the casing, and evaporation. Pins formed under these conditions, but the lack of FAE in the mono resulted in aborted fruits. So the high FAE was definitely required for healthy fruit formation/spore production. The indoor martha-style GH provided the right conditions. I've repeated the grow with similar results. P. allenii was run alongside the ovoids, but failed to pin indoors. Hope this helps.
Great thread, by the way! Looking forward to updates on your projects.
Thanks so much for this info elpico! So to summarize, the ovoids were always in the pots to begin with, and the difference was that they were initially in a monotub, but the monotub did not provide the exact conditions so they were moved to a martha-type GH. That is a very cool process.
When I take a closer look at the pots, I can actually make sense of their size now. I previously thought that those were "big" pots but in fact these are small, hand-sized pots right? I have several of these around from my gardening hobby.
I was personally surprised that ovoids can colonize a substrate that is composed of ONLY straw. I'm assuming the nutrients from the colonized grain and what nutrients are left in the straw are "sufficient" here. Could it be that certain ovoids are grass-loving this way more than they are wood-loving? It seems that both grasses and wood are present in every case where these show up in the wild.
Please keep stopping by this thread, your wisdom is appreciated. This thread was intended to be a place for community members to drop notes more than to follow my personal progress so please stick around.
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elpico
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27577372 - 12/11/21 01:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you haven't already, check out moricz's work with woodlovers(link in Land Trout's sig above on this page). Pretty inspirational stuff.
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: elpico] 1
#27577950 - 12/11/21 08:17 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm a big fan of the moricz Cellar thread, it's one of my bookmarked threads on this forum. This thread is largely in the same spirit but for the fact that I am a humble beginner with ovoids.
Here is a list of the pending items for this project tonight. I expect to provide some pics soon:
- Pasteurize some straw as used above by elpico. I will inoculate this straw with colonized ovoid rye berries
- Create 2x ovoid master slants (agar slants with supplemented wood stick).
- Use a small amount of the grain to put it straight to cardboard as done in the moricz thread (I think he used agar to cardboard rather than grain to cardboard though). I have never used cardboard before in this hobby so I am basically just soaking the cardboard, deconstructing it into individual layers of cardboard, and putting some grains between the layers before compressing/rolling up the cardboard almost like a burrito.
My plan with the pasteurized straw is to put part of it to a small unmodified tub (I will keep the FAE issues that elpico mentioned above in mind if I even get that far). I also want to put some of it to a quart jar just to have it going in two different vessels at once.
I'm trying to make use of time by trying out several simultaneous strategies as shown in this thread. I don't expect all or even most to succeed, in fact I expect quite a lot of failure here and having to adapt in response, but if I was scared of that I would stick with cubes instead of being willing to try things out and fail.
Edited by Mycoplex (12/11/21 08:24 PM)
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trampingtrillions
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27577979 - 12/11/21 08:34 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm really excited to have come across this thread. I'm really interested in growing ovoids, I was expecting it to be an outdoor project but maybe I'll try indoor now too.
Currently struggling to germinate some spores. No luck yet on potato-honey agar, light malt extract agar, etc. Nothing directly on grains either. I just used the last of my syringe on more grain tea agar, and directly in a grain tea LC jar.
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MysticMycologist
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Have you tried very dilute plates with added nutritional yeast? That is my plan for when my print arrives. I second your feelings on this thread. I am so grateful for this community. To stand on the shoulders of giants.
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Mycoplex
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Quote:
trampingtrillions said: I'm really excited to have come across this thread. I'm really interested in growing ovoids, I was expecting it to be an outdoor project but maybe I'll try indoor now too.
Currently struggling to germinate some spores. No luck yet on potato-honey agar, light malt extract agar, etc. Nothing directly on grains either. I just used the last of my syringe on more grain tea agar, and directly in a grain tea LC jar.
Quote:
MysticMycologist said: Have you tried very dilute plates with added nutritional yeast? That is my plan for when my print arrives. I second your feelings on this thread. I am so grateful for this community. To stand on the shoulders of giants.
If anyone ends up having success with a specific agar recipe feel free to update and I will add it to the "Agar" section at the beginning and cite your work! If you want to try one that seems to have worked on my end, I've also documented that one.
I set out to give a shot at the items I said I would try to complete tonight:
First photo:
- The left-most jar and the shoebox on the right are the result of taking the pasteurized straw and mixing it with colonized rye berries. I wanted to try two different containers.
- The two center jars are expanded wood pellets that I originally inoculated with ovoid LC but after not seeing progress I put some colonized grain in there.
- The centrifuge tube in the front is the ovoid agar slant.
Second photo: Soaked cardboard that has been layered with colonized rye berries, then compressed into a comforter-type shape.
Edited by Mycoplex (12/12/21 01:31 PM)
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Land Trout
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Mycoplex] 3
#27578379 - 12/12/21 08:37 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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As far as agar goes I’ve only used regulare lme agar 10:10:500 or 8:8:500 and it’s always worked. Like 100% of the plates germ at room temp. I don’t do anything different with my woodloving psilocybes, they are right next to my pans and cubes and gourmets all on the same recipe. Working on my second gene pool of ovoids now. And several other subs, azzies, cyans, libs, and nats. Have never had a problem with ovoids germinating.
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Mycoplex
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Re: Path to fruiting ovoids "indoors" [Re: Land Trout]
#27580493 - 12/13/21 08:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey guys, hope everyone is doing good during this winter. I wanted to provide some updates from my end about this project, some fail and some new options being tried.
Earlier in this experiment I posted this variation of substrate I tried out, which is a mix of sterilized expanded wood pellets and wood chips. I inoculated about 7 of these quart jars with good ovoid LC, but not a single one started colonizing.
I took this as a hint and noticed that in my experience so far, this species does not seem to like going from liquid culture directly to wood, even if the LC is also good/healthy. The only exception to this I have encountered is the RR cakes, which themselves have BRF in them so it's not just wood. I've shown how far along those RR cakes have come below too.
I scrapped these wood-only quarts and instead sterilized a smaller amount of cherry wood chips in a quart jar (nowhere near full). I then threw in colonized rye berries that were colonized with ovoid LC.
If you notice, the mycelium has begum jumping from the grains to the wood.
I think I made the wood chips too wet here, but also the photo makes them look a bit wetter than they actually seen in person. In any case I will try to make them more dry next time.
Also at the bottom, notice that the ovoid LC is also colonizing the RR cakes.
Also remember that wet cardboard that I also colonized with rye berries? It seems to also be getting colonized by the ovoid and the myc is poking through from the inside of the "burrito." This is another instance of the same pattern where (LC - > grain - > wood) seems to work better for this species (just a conjecture so far based on experience).
Does anyone have experience on what can be done with this type of colonized cardboard? I have no clue what to do with it and have never even tried that before. It might contam out but just in case I try it again, what can typically be done with this?
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