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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,261
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d]
#27546169 - 11/16/21 06:36 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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What if, hypothetically, things were different than they are? Ok, sure, in that imaginary world it would be possible that your position is spot on.
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa]
#27546178 - 11/16/21 06:43 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: What if, hypothetically, things were different than they are? Ok, sure, in that imaginary world it would be possible that your position is spot on.
The thing is, we don't know how they are right now. We're in the data collection and discovery process. There's only two studies I know of regarding natural immunity, and the studies on vaccine efficacy and waning have been somewhat inconsistent as well.
In other words, I don't think you can totally rule it out as a real possibility, there's just not enough data. That's why I've been saying it may be better and getting frustrated with you guys shutting it down as a hypothetical possibility. That's anti-scientific behavior. There's just not enough info to come to a conclusive stance from what I've seen. And so it seems that if it is the case, then the position is reasonable.
The study I've been citing claims that vaccine induced immunity, compared to natural, results in a 13x increase in 'breakthrough infections', and a 27x increase in symptomatic disease, and that natural immunity efficacy did not wane for 'at least 7 months'. Those are some powerful findings. Across a population, that could be very impactful. I think it's worth talking about at least. I don't really see the issue with a mixed approach, where those that prefer natural immunity may do so, but those who want vaccines may do so, and I think state policy should be formed similarly.
Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 07:16 PM)
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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,012
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d]
#27546181 - 11/16/21 06:48 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
junk_f00d said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Even assuming your natural immunity argument has some validity, which it doesn't appear to have, it would still be better to get vaccinated, thereby reducing your risk while you're out there trying to get infected for natural immunity.
Why do you think it doesn't have validity?
I've considered this position too, but have seen no data on immune response for this kind of situation, understandably. For example, if it for some reason provides no additional benefit over straight vaccine-induced immunity, then there's no benefit. Also, I would assume if this idea was working in practice, then 'waning efficacy' wouldn't be so prevalent.
I'd assume just the opposite and cut down the risk that I wouldn't be able to smell my morning coffee, of course if your trying to reduce your exposure to fart odor, getting infected is the better option.
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: falcon]
#27546183 - 11/16/21 06:49 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
falcon said:
Quote:
junk_f00d said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Even assuming your natural immunity argument has some validity, which it doesn't appear to have, it would still be better to get vaccinated, thereby reducing your risk while you're out there trying to get infected for natural immunity.
Why do you think it doesn't have validity?
I've considered this position too, but have seen no data on immune response for this kind of situation, understandably. For example, if it for some reason provides no additional benefit over straight vaccine-induced immunity, then there's no benefit. Also, I would assume if this idea was working in practice, then 'waning efficacy' wouldn't be so prevalent.
I'd assume just the opposite and cut down the risk that I wouldn't be able to smell my morning coffee, of course if your trying to reduce your exposure to fart odor, getting infected is the better option.
If it's in the best interest of society long term that I develop natural immunity, then in some sense it's selfish not to, given my risk profile. Whether this is the case or not, I have no idea. But if it means we may someday live in a world where my hypothetical kids don't have to worry about COVID at all, and we can get this totally behind us, then I think it's worth it.
Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 07:05 PM)
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 21 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d] 1
#27547714 - 11/18/21 02:59 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
junk_f00d said: I think it's worth talking about at least. I don't really see the issue with a mixed approach, where those that prefer natural immunity may do so, but those who want vaccines may do so, and I think state policy should be formed similarly.
Isn't this the crux of the problem though? You're diluting the effectiveness of first world nations plan with your own third world plan. Isn't this why measles staged a comeback? Because of the anti-vax misguided logic.
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Oz_Salvia
Conservative
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 165
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d] 2
#27547727 - 11/18/21 03:32 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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The problem with testing one's heath on COVID is long term COVID. That's the deal breaker for me. Glandular fever in your 20's stretches on plenty. Who'd want something like that?
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,270
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Oz_Salvia]
#27547844 - 11/18/21 06:27 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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This chick on my facebook feed would rather get hand piercings than a shot.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,332
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 32 minutes, 23 seconds
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Quote:
If it's in the best interest of society long term that I develop natural immunity, then in some sense it's selfish not to, given my risk profile. Whether this is the case or not, I have no idea. But if it means we may someday live in a world where my hypothetical kids don't have to worry about COVID at all, and we can get this totally behind us, then I think it's worth it.
You have no fucking clue what you’re talking about
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 21 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] 1
#27548448 - 11/18/21 02:46 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: I think Australia may be nuttier than the US
Hmmmm, possibly.
Someone thought it completely normal to bring a wooden gallows to a protest outside Victorian Parliament debating covid restriction laws.
Complete with Trump flags QAnon signs and MAGA hats wtf
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10205757/Melbourne-anti-vaccine-protesters-drag-GALLOWS-steps-Parliament-House-Dan-Andrews-doll.html
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,326
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Copycats
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 21 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Kryptos] 1
#27549102 - 11/19/21 12:35 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-19/queensland-hotels-lock-out-unvaxxed-ahead-of-deadline/100626822
Quote:
Unvaccinated Queenslanders could find themselves locked out of holiday destinations this summer, with some major hotels saying they will refuse bookings rather than navigate the state’s impending COVID-19 restrictions.
From December 17, when the state is due to reach its 80 per cent vaccination target, Queensland will open its border to interstate travellers — but only if they are fully vaccinated.
The new rules will usher in a suite of restrictions for Queenslanders who are yet to be vaccinated, barring them from cafes, restaurants, bars, pubs, and tourism experiences.
All the freedom lovers are SPEWING they aren't welcome. I think it's funny as 
It's a pity that retail staff will have to endure their spaz meltdowns
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,261
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 21 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#27549148 - 11/19/21 01:22 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think it's a fantastic idea. Imagine going out now?... Hey Presto! No more idiots.
Bring it on
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,332
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 32 minutes, 23 seconds
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Seems like a better crowd at the bars, like we’ve stumbled upon the way to filter out the douchebags
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,362
Loc: attending Snake Church
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] 1
#27549245 - 11/19/21 04:38 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Austria is doing a national shutdown for 20 days, longer for the unvaccinated. They have mandatory vaccination requirements starting in February.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Warrk



Registered: 06/02/17
Posts: 1,635
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Ahhh, some relief in this thread, we have a run of sensible posts at last.
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Oz_Salvia
Conservative
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 165
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Quote:
Stable Genius said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-19/queensland-hotels-lock-out-unvaxxed-ahead-of-deadline/100626822
Quote:
Unvaccinated Queenslanders could find themselves locked out of holiday destinations this summer, with some major hotels saying they will refuse bookings rather than navigate the state’s impending COVID-19 restrictions.
From December 17, when the state is due to reach its 80 per cent vaccination target, Queensland will open its border to interstate travellers — but only if they are fully vaccinated.
The new rules will usher in a suite of restrictions for Queenslanders who are yet to be vaccinated, barring them from cafes, restaurants, bars, pubs, and tourism experiences.
All the freedom lovers are SPEWING they aren't welcome. I think it's funny as 
It's a pity that retail staff will have to endure their spaz meltdowns 
I'm finding it hard to see how private enterprise, particularly in Queensland where 40% are employed by small business, who took the big hit of shutdowns and over the winter when all the southerners come north for the warmth, are again being hobbled by who they can trade with? How is that fair?
It might be dandy to our politicians and public servants who get a pay cheque regularly every fortnight regardless of said shut downs and reduced trading, but the rest are doing it tough. That's why they protest.
Curiously the un-vaxxed can go to Coles, Woolies, Bunnings and take a dump in a public toilet. But they can't go to a pub, café or restaurant. How does that add up per public health policy? Seriously!?
We already have our hospitals across the country at breaking point and we don't even have a pandemic because the country is border shut. Once the doors open it will be pandemonium. Why? It's the same idiocy on punishment for not taking the jab which has seen massive lay-offs of medical staff.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/05/australias-hospitals-overwhelmed-and-about-to-get-much-worse-warns-ama
Edit to add, More than 2-thousand health workers won't get the jab in QLD facing the boot. The knock on will be huge as the hospitals have long been over worked and stretched. Perhaps some caved and it's not so bad (maybe? ha!), but how/why would you boot your health staff in the midst of a global pandemic and soon the international doors to open? Clowns are running the show here.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/more-than-2000-qld-health-workers-shun-vaccine-jab-as-deadline-looms-20211027-p593js.html
https://7news.com.au/politics/qld-hospitals-struggle-with-ed-patients-c-4620797
Quote:
More than 30,000 Queenslanders in an imminently life-threatening condition were not seen within 10 minutes of arriving at a hospital last quarter, ahead of an expected surge of COVID-19 patients when the borders open.
State government statistics show 34 per cent of the 89,684 people in imminently life-threatening condition weren't seen by a doctor or nurse within the clinically recommended time frame in the September quarter.
About 80,000, or one in three Queenslanders in a potentially life-threatening condition were not seen within the recommended 30 minutes, according to the data released on Friday.
Edited by Oz_Salvia (11/19/21 07:39 AM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,332
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 32 minutes, 23 seconds
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Oz_Salvia] 1
#27549604 - 11/19/21 10:54 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
More than 2-thousand health workers won't get the jab in QLD facing the boot.
They’ll cry and whine, like they did here and then they’ll end up getting the jab, like they did here.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] 1
#27549621 - 11/19/21 11:09 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Most will get it and them move on with their lives. We have people cry about getting the flu shot. They end up out of a job when they don’t get it.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 21 hours, 49 minutes
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Yeah it's a storm in a tea cup. Get the needle you big babies.
Quote:
Oz_Salvia said:I'm finding it hard to see how private enterprise, particularly in Queensland where 40% are employed by small business, who took the big hit of shutdowns and over the winter when all the southerners come north for the warmth, are again being hobbled by who they can trade with? How is that fair?
How long since you've been in the real world hinterland dweller? It's the era of the "Risk Assessment" now man. Best sharpen the pencil.
When shit goes south these days the first thing Workplace Health and Safety will ask for is the paperwork. Where's the copy of the Standard Operating Procedures? Where's the Risk Assessment?
It's a straight forward management decision with the higher priority given to staff and guests health.
Making money from a bogan who won't get the needle is down the list of priorities. It's quite simple.
Quote:
Oz_Salvia said:
Edit to add, More than 2-thousand health workers won't get the jab in QLD facing the boot.
Clowns are running the show here.
About 80,000, or one in three Queenslanders in a potentially life-threatening condition were not seen within the recommended 30 minutes, according to the data released on Friday.
Oi, don't you dare start bashing Anna or the Qld Labor government we have seen bugger all covid, no thanks to Gladys, the 'woman that saved Australia'  I think it's more like "what the hell are those clowns doing working in a health care role when they have no desire to follow the guidelines?!".
There are problems with minor surgeries, once again it's a procedural/risk management decision I'd be guessing but also that Qld has had long problems with ambulance ramp times since before the pandemic, I'm sure that problem is being wrongly attributed to covid even though it's a valid point.
Working in sewerage plants = Hepatitis shots are mandatory Working in particular roles around an abattoir = QFever shots are mandatory Work offshore, say PNG = Malaria shots are mandatory
This is what developed nations with high standards of healthcare put in place.
I'm sure there are members here older than myself who can remember seeing disfigured polio victims.
We don't see those people anymore because polio was eradicated in first world countries due to vaccinations.
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