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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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mine dg *DELETED*
#27547757 - 11/18/21 04:17 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
Reason for deletion: false
Edited by djbabyjesus (09/03/23 09:02 PM)
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Assyrian
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Registered: 11/17/21
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27547782 - 11/18/21 04:50 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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The dose makes the poison, look into the concept of LD50. I think it depends on where you want to draw the line and defining poisonous. Like, are side effects proof of poisoning? Which substances are they caused by? Are they just unpleasant effects caused by an unknown substance or interaction between substances? Are these unpleasant effects somehow damaging to some organs or just transitory alterations in perception that don't cause any permanent damage? Lots to be pondered, as you can see it depends on how strict you want to be.
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus] 2
#27547785 - 11/18/21 04:55 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Mushrooms are sensitive to their substrate, they can and will pick up things in the soil that you may not want to consume. That account needs to weigh their experiences against a cultivated patch that's grown in a supplied substrate.
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/21
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: larry.fisherman]
#27547798 - 11/18/21 05:19 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
larry.fisherman said: Mushrooms are sensitive to their substrate, they can and will pick up things in the soil that you may not want to consume. That account needs to weigh their experiences against a cultivated patch that's grown in a supplied substrate.
This. My theory of woodlover paralysis is it is caused by mycotoxins from various wood-rotting molds growing alongside the mushroom. This theory is supported by the fact that some patches cause it a little, some a lot, some not at all.
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Assyrian
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27547831 - 11/18/21 06:05 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Mushrooms are known to be bioconcentrators so obviously that can't be ruled out in non-controlled conditions, however as previously said, it'd be even just an unpleasant side effect of some biologically active but not necessarily toxic compound https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioaccumulation
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27548382 - 11/18/21 01:43 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said: By definition, "Mushroom poisoning is poisoning resulting from the ingestion of mushrooms that contain toxic substances. Its symptoms can vary from slight gastrointestinal discomfort to death in about 10 days. Mushroom toxins are secondary metabolites produced by the fungus."
No psilocybin woodlovers aren't poisonous in the sense you state at all (liver toxicity), nor are all woodlovers poisonous even in the sense of muscle problems - IF you grow them yourself. It's always the wild ones that throw these effects, SFAIK. And I've encountered it myself with wild Ps. cyans I picked in a local park under some blackberry vines. Miserable stuff, one of the worst experiences I've ever had with mushrooms - and I trashed the culture I was taking from them.
As to WHY? I suspect it's environmental toxins, pesticides, substrate, or perhaps genetics. If you domesticate them and they don't have this paralytic effect than you won't get it from any dose. I know because I've grown tons of a Ps cyan strain that I started from spores, grew indoors (well in the garage in a converted fridge) and that mutated due to mumble mumble see this thread from which I grew tons of excellent fruit and consumed all of it. 
I suspect people also confuse the muscle inhibition effect of high doses (cubes included) with paralysis but it's not at all the same thing.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (11/18/21 01:52 PM)
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27548718 - 11/18/21 06:48 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
Reason for deletion: prophets
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#27548729 - 11/18/21 07:01 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27548745 - 11/18/21 07:17 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
Reason for deletion: false
Edited by djbabyjesus (11/18/21 08:05 PM)
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27548778 - 11/18/21 07:44 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: and I trashed the culture I was taking from them.
That's what I'd do too, but it's a shame, because it would really be useful information to grow that culture. If one identified some azurescens that were known to produce the 'paralysis' reaction, it'd be really interesting to see if the ones artificially grown from that culture would have the same problems. Also, if another toxic fungi or bacteria was involved, it might reveal on an agar culture one took from the outside of the fruiting body or from stem butt/substrate.
If another organism is involved, one could clean it on agar and 'cure' the azzies of the paralysis reaction.
Of course, who the hell wants to grow out a mushroom they know might give them a bad reaction? It'd take someone very motivated, willing to grow mushrooms knowing they might be inedible, merely for science. I can say I got a clean azurescens syringe, and I fully expect any mushrooms I get from it will be completely free of this reaction.
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27548789 - 11/18/21 07:58 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
"I can say I got a clean azurescens syringe, and I fully expect any mushrooms I get from it will be completely free of this reaction."
What makes you expect the phenotype you have is non-paralysis causing? I am curious. Plz let us know how that comes out. And if you have any negative effects (paralysis) in the 2g plus range.
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27548792 - 11/18/21 08:03 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said:
Quote:
"I can say I got a clean azurescens syringe, and I fully expect any mushrooms I get from it will be completely free of this reaction."
What makes you expect the phenotype you have is non-paralysis causing? I am curious. Plz let us know how that comes out. And if you have any negative effects (paralysis) in the 2g plus range.
Because I don't think it is caused by phenotype, I think it is caused by co-culturing with other fungi which are the ones actually producing the toxins. So if that theory is right, it is impossible to get the reaction starting from clean spores. I trust that these spores are fully cleaned of any non-azuresces fungi.
I will be testing it but I'm gonna have to update you in one year, haha - I am assured that since I just started spores now I can't get fruits this year.
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27548804 - 11/18/21 08:07 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've wondered if the forest of amanitas had something to do with it. Also Creon, have you ever experienced WLP? I just looked into co-culturing. Interesting stuff. Its kinda like graphing trees where they can adopt trait from the parent plants root system. I read somewhere that azzies don't like being grown in sterile conditions and it works better if you take mycelium from out side because of a possible symbiotic relationship with other organisms.
Edited by djbabyjesus (11/18/21 10:27 PM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus] 1
#27548900 - 11/18/21 09:22 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said: Maybe its a phenotype issue. Some containing more nasty stuff than others. People either get lucky from a home patch or they don't....people have reported growing strains of cyan at home and having negative effects. In my experience, this is very true with cyans and azzies. Ive had it take 7g to cause paralysis from cyans...and another time only two grams...different sources... one source(area) was a constant problem. With azzies, some wild patches I pick are all good year after year, up to 5-7 grams no problems. Some places I won't even eat the mushrooms from...Identical substrate. I'm a big fan of the idea that the wild ones are just that, wild untamed phenotypes that produce varied drug profiles. Some good, some toxic or for lack of a better term..bad. Bad for you, cause paralysis.
I didn't mean so much they never cause paralysis if you grow them yourself, more that if you grow them yourself you can select a strain that doesn't have that effect, like any other selection for what you want/what you don't want. I've had cubes that were totally nasty in various ways and I trashed those cultures too. 
I've got some culture going that came from Capt Future and identifed as something in azure/sub/alleni spectrum which I'm aiming at a big outdoor grow for next year so I fucking HOPE they aren't going to slay me that way.
That would totally suck. 
Wild patches are the devil's playground it would seem; heaven or hell, flip that coin. 
Quote:
djbabyjesus said: I do think you are on point with growing out certain culture over others.... you know....its not too late in the year...I could possibly go get spore prints from the different areas. I have 4 separate areas....one of which I swear is the good Azzie phenotype with no paralysis. Maybe someone wants to grow out All 4 and see which are good? Science!!!
I'll totally take a suspected good azurescens spore print, I'd hate to commit to 4 separate tests as that one cyan experience was enough for a lifetime. I'd done a small amount and they seemed good, then with the full up I thought I was gonna stop being able to breath, so, uhm, no thanks. But I like the idea. Need some volunteers to test them, obviously. 
I do think it's genetics. The ones I stumbled on were growing in prime habitat without any obvious cofactors.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27548951 - 11/18/21 10:07 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
Reason for deletion: locations
Edited by djbabyjesus (11/19/21 03:02 AM)
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Blazer420
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus] 1
#27548991 - 11/18/21 10:37 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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lol the psilocybin in any mushrooms will make your body react to it as its a poison. No matter what species it is.. Wood lovers just are known to have some paralysis affects.
-------------------- ~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~ * You need 2 wake up and smell the music! * -We are all computer data in a materialistic world- |Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything|
 
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: Blazer420]
#27549040 - 11/18/21 11:40 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blazer420 said, lol the psilocybin in any mushrooms will make your body react to it as its a poison. No matter what species it is.. Wood lovers just are known to have some paralysis affects.
how does your body react to psilocybin it as its a poison? I'm not sure that psilocybin has been shown to be poisonous.
Edited by djbabyjesus (11/20/21 03:57 AM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27549861 - 11/19/21 02:26 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said: I'll do it. I'm pretty sure we are close to narrowing down an antidote. I have some questions.....how does a person separate a pheno of mushrooms from the rest.....does, a stem butt make a clone of that pheno? I can separate the 4 collections...but phenos exist with those collections....How do you suggest I go about separating them.....BY collection and then maybe by look? put ones that look alike together from the same collection....were talking more like 8-16 different runs 
Mmm, as long as the stems are attached so you know what they came from. Stems or caps it doesn't matter for cloning but usually stems since you can split them open and go after the cleaner tissue. For cloning.
Prints will have more genetic variation than clones from tissue but those phenos are pretty distinct just looking at them. Like the next to last ones the best FWIW.
Moving away from the coast it could just be climate variation too. For the other you need to find the smoking deer - having a liedown ("oh no I can't move!") near a patch that's become unresponsive to predators (you or cougars). I think that would be a gold standard test. Got a lot of deer in my neighborhood and you can have all of them that you want.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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djbabyjesus


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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27550625 - 11/20/21 03:25 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
Reason for deletion: location
Edited by djbabyjesus (11/20/21 05:38 AM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27551326 - 11/20/21 03:09 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said: If I followed the deer trail I would come to a spot where the entire area had been matted down as if a few deer had laid down there. In those spots, tons of Azurescens....and deer do doo.
Bingo!
Quote:
djbabyjesus said:

Lovely. Interesting theory, a psilocin dominant woodlover would be excellent for tea.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (11/20/21 03:23 PM)
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XXfuzyxgamingXX
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#27551388 - 11/20/21 04:03 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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The first time I took shrooms I had what I believed to be cyans.. looked identical to cyans, the wavy cap.. during the trip I experienced mild facial paralysis, the right side of my face went numb and I was worried I was having a stroke, but was able to not freak out or worry too much, I knew it was just the shrooms. It wasn't that bad, mild facial paralysis, which went away after an hour. The trip was a blast, those shrooms felt so fucking amazing, it felt like I was on MDMA... had incredible CEV's and very intense tactile sensations... I was grabbing fistfuls of dirt and squeezing it because touching things felt so amazing. I was filthy and covered in dirt head head toe by the end of trip, it was probably the best night of my life. I was with like 5 other people and we had a blast. I've never had that happen on cubensis or 4-aco-dmt so it's definitely unique to the woodlovers. I dont think it's anything to worry about tho. It's probably just toxins in the wood substrate itself that the shrooms concentrate. Or, it's an unknown alkaloid causing it. Cyans were very unique from cubes in that it felt like a roll, like MDMA. Was an awesome experience, I can't wait to have those again
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27559146 - 11/27/21 04:16 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
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Sub-Easy
slowly dying since birth



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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27559330 - 11/27/21 09:18 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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People eat a lot of mushrooms from the woods, and they would get more exposure to anything the mushrooms absorb than we would. We take in lots of pollution from the things we eat. That's not what is causing the problem. Not even from bacteria, mold, or poisonous wood they grow on. It doesn't work like that. Living things don't store poison from other living things in high enough concentrations to be harmful, unless they are biologically adapted to. So it's highly unlikely that some would be dangerous and some would have no effect. It's definitely something these mushrooms are making inside their bodies, Not absorbing it from the environment.
Some people are genetically much more sensitive to mycotoxins than others. But that also only applies to certain mycotoxins, some kinds mess with all of us. And the kinds of mycotoxins that relate to genetic sensitivity take a long exposure to cause problems. So genetic sensitivity is probably not it.
I thought they found the substance in azurescense that caused the paralysis?
I wouldn't call it a toxin. Toxins, and things that cause a reaction, are not at all the same thing.
It doesn't mean it's not a mycotoxin causing it, but considering it's popularity and history of study, I think they would know if it's a mycotoxin.
A toxin is a metabolic byproduct of a living thing, that causes disease or tissue damage. Disease is when an organ stops working properly.
So, intoxication might be a better way to think of it. Intoxication has nothing to do with toxic, even though the word toxic is in it.
But regardless, it's harmless to you, unless you get hurt because you can't move when you need to.
-------------------- Just take um like you get um. Those ephemeral spasms of infinity, in suspended animation, born across a boundless ether of existential misery aloft a revelry (of awe) for the abhorrently sublime.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27559663 - 11/27/21 02:59 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said:
Have you ever domesticated a wood lover that was known to cause paralysis and then after domestication it stopped causing those effects? I mean why would you even do that, right?
In light of all the reports of this it had occurred to me what a good experiment that would have been to do! But at the time I was just glad to have survived and not much interested in why they did this. IIRC it was a mix of mature caps and some immature ones that I made into the tea that had the evil effects.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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penicilliam
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: Sub-Easy] 1
#27560529 - 11/28/21 09:46 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is already known that some mushrooms are such highly effective bioaccumulators that they're not suitable for foraging even in an unpolluted environment. As an example up here in the pnw some tend to concentrate metals to a degree that they're not safe for eating no matter where you find them. Given the location sensitive nature of the anecdotal reports here, it wouldn't surprise me to be the case. Wouldn't have to be a metal, that was just an example.
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CHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27560663 - 11/28/21 11:49 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said: Wood Lover Paralysis From Magic Mushrooms: The Aeruginascin Hypothesis
Barbara E. Bauer, MS has written some great articles on the connection between Wood lovers and Bufotoxins. She makes a case for Aeruginascin, a drug nearly identical to bufotenidine, a toxic compound that causes paralysis. Aeruginascin has been recently identified in cubensis.



Anyone know if Aeruginascin has been found in wood lovers and at what amounts? Also for those that have experienced WLP it seem sometimes it happens during the trip and sometimes after. Are the sensations the same? How do they compare. WL’s are probably my favorite to trip on but I’m usually maxed out at 2g’s (I must be quite sensitive to the actives)and have never experienced WLP although on most deeper trips I usually have a really hard time walking during the peak. It also takes me a long while to feel comfortable back in my legs.
-------------------- "What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
   
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djbabyjesus


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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: Sub-Easy]
#27561502 - 11/29/21 02:04 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
Reason for deletion: false
Edited by djbabyjesus (11/29/21 03:02 AM)
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
#27561504 - 11/29/21 02:11 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CHUCK.HNTR said:
Quote:
djbabyjesus said: Wood Lover Paralysis From Magic Mushrooms: The Aeruginascin Hypothesis
Barbara E. Bauer, MS has written some great articles on the connection between Wood lovers and Bufotoxins. She makes a case for Aeruginascin, a drug nearly identical to bufotenidine, a toxic compound that causes paralysis. Aeruginascin has been recently identified in cubensis.



Anyone know if Aeruginascin has been found in wood lovers and at what amounts? Also for those that have experienced WLP it seem sometimes it happens during the trip and sometimes after. Are the sensations the same? How do they compare. WL’s are probably my favorite to trip on but I’m usually maxed out at 2g’s (I must be quite sensitive to the actives)and have never experienced WLP although on most deeper trips I usually have a really hard time walking during the peak. It also takes me a long while to feel comfortable back in my legs.
To my knowledge they have not done research like that on the wood lovers. Just cubensis. Aeruginascin was found in small amounts in cubes and has been identified in Inocybe aeruginascens which there have been reports of paralysis.
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LeafRaker
nomad



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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27561615 - 11/29/21 06:50 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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To add to your list of Azzie trips gone wrong:
I have experienced paralysis of the muscles used for swallowing. So I very nearly choked due to a very intense Azzie trip.
Poisonous mushrooms sounds extreme and it even sounded extreme to me until I read this thread and really pondered the points made here. And my difficulty in grasping this is in spite of the fact that I have myself courted serious danger with Azzies AND I am obsessed with harm reduction/risk management across all things. The simple conclusion that you made should have been obvious to me, but I am embarrassed to say it wasn't.
I would warn almost all off of Azzies. And for those who insist on consuming them I'd say: 1. Keep doses comparatively small, possibly no more than 2g or so. It might make sense for those seeking a profound experience to top off those doses with cubes or libs or something else. Going big on Azzies alone is really questionable.
2. Always plan for much more time out of commission with Azzies. My paralysis always occurred as my head was close to baseline and that physical deficit lasted for at least a few hours. The total time out of commission was much longer than it is for any other mushroom, except maybe for some Ps cyans or subs.
3. It probably makes sense to have a sitter that has experience with WLP if you plan to take them. It's hard to plan for all possibilities if you are alone and getting things wrong could be fatal.
-------------------- Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.
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wolfman42
Truth Lover

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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: LeafRaker]
#27561619 - 11/29/21 06:58 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is not just Azurescens that cause this.
I don't believe them to be poisonous but I've heard them described that way. Not just Azurescens. I've heard people talk that way about psychedelic Mushrooms in general.
I've read trip reports of paralysis on high doses. I myself experienced paralysis on a lemon tek dose of PEs.
I could not swallow, nor could I lift a glass of water to drink in the first place. I could not feel or move my body for the first hour. I was paralyzed flat like a board on my bed. I was able to swallow again after about an hour. Below the neck paralysis lasted much longer.
My friend almost called an ambulance due to my state. We both had some experience with psychedelics before but never had this happen.
Edited by wolfman42 (11/29/21 07:16 AM)
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LeafRaker
nomad



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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: wolfman42]
#27561635 - 11/29/21 07:20 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Super interesting information. I reliably experienced paralysis on substantial doses of Azzies, but I don't remember it on any other of the half-dozen or so species I have consumed, including if memory serves (it's fuzzy, TBH) Ps cyans. And I am someone who prefers to consume what are by most people's standards very large quantities.
Perhaps we just need a much bigger discussion of paralysis with mushrooms? It seems like one of the most serious pitfalls of mushroom consumption. If we don't understand what's happening even in the most noted case, Azzies, we're probably flying blind elsewhere.
-------------------- Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.
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wolfman42
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: LeafRaker]
#27561644 - 11/29/21 07:28 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LeafRaker said: Super interesting information. I reliably experienced paralysis on substantial doses of Azzies, but I don't remember it on any other of the half-dozen or so species I have consumed, including if memory serves (it's fuzzy, TBH) Ps cyans. And I am someone who prefers to consume what are by most people's standards very large quantities.
Perhaps we just need a much bigger discussion of paralysis with mushrooms? It seems like one of the most serious pitfalls of mushroom consumption. If we don't understand what's happening even in the most noted case, Azzies, we're probably flying blind elsewhere.
I do not view it as a pitfall but I agree we are flying blind. It will take some time for research to catch up due to the legalities. However, we do have many thousands of years with these magnificent creatures. So in that sense I feel comfortable even if paralysis is one of the intended effects 
I think paralysis is part of the mind blowing experience some of us will have on them but not all. It is highly dependent on body chemistry and I also have a low tolerance.
I am quite happy with that trip because it taught me so much, the paralysis was all part of the mind blowing experience for me.
Edited by wolfman42 (11/29/21 07:29 AM)
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LeafRaker
nomad



Registered: 11/28/11
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27561651 - 11/29/21 07:42 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your thoughts on deer+elk have greatly stimulated my imagination. I might be talking utter nonsense, but given the problem I'd like to throw out a few things that hit me.
One is that the diet of all animals in the family Cervidae places a real imperative on consumption of minerals, especially sodium.
Coastal areas and floodplains feature environments and organisms uniquely well suited to large concentrations of sodium and other minerals. Coastal vegetation is typically wildly different from that found a few kilometers inland, though inland animals will favor sodium-rich vegetation as well, moose muching on lily pads in freshwater lakes is an example.
I could imagine that deer and elk in those parks at the mouth of the Columbia gorge themselves on sodium-rich plants and fungi. I could even imagine that plants and fungi have found ways of using the deer and elk for their own purposes, i.e. that Azzie spores might be much more successful in deer dung and that the deer can be assured to keep the dung in the right places for Azzies if you paralyze the deer amongst the dune grasses.
One of my clearer memories of consuming Azzies is a strong taste of sodium. I wonder if what we call WLP reflects compounds in Azzies or other mushrooms that act upon ionotropic receptors, essentially hijacking those receptors to produce drug-like effects. I've only a scant understanding of the pharmacology, but I think barbiturates, like Sodium Pentothal, operated on those ionotropic receptors. I also *think* those are the receptors targeted by 'lethal injection' punishments.
-------------------- Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.
Edited by LeafRaker (12/03/21 09:43 AM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27569052 - 12/04/21 12:23 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said: Just wanted to clear the air on toxic and poisonous substances. As they are defined, Wood Loving mushrooms like azzies,cyan and subs are by definition, potentially poisonous or toxic mushrooms. If WLP is real, then they can in fact be toxic to the human body. Azurescens are poisonous mushrooms with varying degrees of toxins. Are they toxic enough to kill a full grown human? Not at normal recreational doses. But toxic to children? Definitely. A child died in Portland from cyans. I bet if you asked her parents if they thought their child was just 'intoxicated' and took a harmless substance they would not agree. This was very close to a neighborhood called Westmoreland... In that area there was and old abandoned park where cyanescens grew...those particular cyans caused paralysis in the 1-2 gram range. Very bad indeed. One of my friends, couldn't even lift a gallon of milk....Now I'm not saying they were the same ones but they were from located within 1/4mile of the cyans that killed the little girl.
Yeah, all that, but you still don't know what it is that caused the problem, or if it's produced by the mushroom itself, or from something comingled with the putative "poisonous" mushrooms, or came from some other mushroom growing in close proximity. I mean, where's the toxicology report? That somebody ate some mushrooms and died from them isn't terribly unusual. How long did it take? Was it typical liver toxicity, where you feel sick, apparently get better, then die from liver failure within the next week or so? Was it from paralysis affecting breathing or cardiac function? I mean it doesn't make it any less significant but in terms of what could be responsible it makes a huge difference. 
I've had the "couldn't lift a gallon of milk" effect one time from Ps cyan growing in a local park, but I've grown tons (well many lbs) of Ps cyan from a cult mutation of mine years ago and consumed them all without ever having a problem - regardless of the state of development of the fruits (if that matters). And they were wonderful, pretty much my all time favorite grow, with no paralytic effect other than the usual lethargy and difficulty of engaging voluntary muscles.
I continue to suspect genetics as the root cause, not environmental, if only because a common mutation could occur multiple times...
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (12/04/21 12:29 PM)
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27585218 - 12/17/21 05:47 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
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Chorb
Weraroa? More like, WHERE-aroa??



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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27585273 - 12/17/21 06:25 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said:Barbara E. Bauer, MS has written some great articles on the connection between Wood lovers and Bufotoxins. She makes a case for Aeruginascin, a drug nearly identical to bufotenidine, a toxic compound that causes paralysis. Aeruginascin has been recently identified in cubensis.
Presuming that the amounts found in cubes isn't damaging, which, at least anecdotally it doesn't seem to be, I could see the presence of this compound actually being something of a positive. Acting enough on the body to make one sluggish and off their feet, being a mild sedative that keeps people from doing too many (potentially risky or embarrassing) things while tripping their ass off.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27585461 - 12/17/21 08:37 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said: Primal, how many shrooms did you eat bro!? 😂 nah jk but for real, what dosages were y’all taking of the home cultivated cyans?
For the nasty fuckers, I did test them first to get a dosage which was probably equivalent to a few grams dried (as tea from fresh though). I could look it up in my journal, I recall it says something like "EVIL FUCKERS BURN THEM ALL!" 
For the domesticated ones it was always high doses, around 30-50 g fresh as tea. That was from a time when I was dosing regularly but not quite as often as more recently, so tolerances weren't that high, but these were strong like PE strong. 
If it WAS something other than psilcocybin or close allies tolerance is unlikely to work the same for both things. So I recall upping dosages regularly on the domestics but only ever having the usual "I can't figure out how to move" not the "I can't move anything" effect. FWIW. 
Quote:
I’ll look more into the girl that died and report back, she was pretty young.
12 I think.
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: wolfman42]
#27585666 - 12/18/21 12:21 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
wolfman42 said: It is not just Azurescens that cause this.
I don't believe them to be poisonous but I've heard them described that way. Not just Azurescens. I've heard people talk that way about psychedelic Mushrooms in general.
I've read trip reports of paralysis on high doses. I myself experienced paralysis on a lemon tek dose of PEs.
I could not swallow, nor could I lift a glass of water to drink in the first place. I could not feel or move my body for the first hour. I was paralyzed flat like a board on my bed. I was able to swallow again after about an hour. Below the neck paralysis lasted much longer.
My friend almost called an ambulance due to my state. We both had some experience with psychedelics before but never had this happen.
I have had this exact thing happen to me. High dose of cubensis with super hot tomato soup on top....Just as you describe...but IME, its different than WLP. Same same but different. When It happened to me on cubes I ate my normal 3.5g but added the hot tomato soup and was floored and very blasted. Others has varying effects but I couldn't talk and was stunned by the glory and then super lethargic after. Everyone was super lethargic but enjoyed it. I couldn't move. Still, only loosely like WLP IMO. Related tho probably. Suspect compounds like Aeruginascin have been found in cubensis.
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djbabyjesus


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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27831231 - 06/22/22 03:36 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: I continue to suspect genetics as the root cause, not environmental, if only because a common mutation could occur multiple times...
Speaking of genetics...look what I found....Azurescens in JUNE!
    
These are from an area with numerous paralysis reports. However, these seem a little different than what I usually find in the same area. These are all kinda short. Plus, they were found out of season. Anyway, they were all pretty similar looking for the most part. I took spore prints and ordered some agar plates. I used the spores from #1, #2 and #3 in the pic below.

Plate #1 was started first. last week or so. I scraped some spores directly from the spore print and it grew mycelium and a grayish hair-like contamination. I cut out a clean part and transferred it to another plate (pink pic).
A few days later I cut out a few more chunks and transferred to new plates. The streaks you see are from me fumbling around with the transfer on the agar. Kinda cool...everywhere it touched turned to myc. 
After that I decided to try cutting out the contamination from the first plate. Seems good idk... So far all the plates look clean. Spore collections #2 and #3 were started a couple days ago. Same deal. Myc and grey hair like contams.
The fresh stem butts and caps were all transferred directly to an old 4ft 2x4 out back. Checked on them the other day and most took to the wood. Covered them in wood chips/coco/perlite. Planted ghost peppers on top.
Phenotypes acquired. June Azzies. I looked in a couple other spots but this was the only place I found any. One thing I noticed is it was around an active ant hill. Red and black medium-large sized ants. I wondered if they were similar to the ants that farm mycelium. They were carrying grass into the nest just like those ants do.
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DERRAYLD
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus] 1
#27831238 - 06/22/22 03:46 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Everything you've touched has not turned to mycelium sadly, that is bacterial.
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: DERRAYLD]
#27831250 - 06/22/22 04:25 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I thought that may be the case. I wonder what kind? At least outside is still going well 😎
Edited by djbabyjesus (06/22/22 04:31 AM)
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DERRAYLD
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27831284 - 06/22/22 05:38 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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No sorry, I don't really concern myself with competitors other than to rid my plates of them.
Next time consider cleaning the sample in peroxide or sterile water prior to taking it to agar.
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: DERRAYLD]
#27831737 - 06/22/22 01:09 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Thats a good idea. I will try that. I put all the spore prints outside so It will be oct-nov before I attempt more agar plates. Thank you for the reply, I really appreciate it.
Edited by djbabyjesus (06/22/22 01:54 PM)
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NeoSalmon327
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27832044 - 06/22/22 05:31 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: I continue to suspect genetics as the root cause, not environmental, if only because a common mutation could occur multiple times...
Speaking of genetics...look what I found....Azurescens in JUNE!
    
These are from an area with numerous paralysis reports. However, these seem a little different than what I usually find in the same area. These are all kinda short. Plus, they were found out of season. Anyway, they were all pretty similar looking for the most part. I took spore prints and ordered some agar plates. I used the spores from #1, #2 and #3 in the pic below.

Plate #1 was started first. last week or so. I scraped some spores directly from the spore print and it grew mycelium and a grayish hair-like contamination. I cut out a clean part and transferred it to another plate (pink pic).
A few days later I cut out a few more chunks and transferred to new plates. The streaks you see are from me fumbling around with the transfer on the agar. Kinda cool...everywhere it touched turned to myc. 
After that I decided to try cutting out the contamination from the first plate. Seems good idk... So far all the plates look clean. Spore collections #2 and #3 were started a couple days ago. Same deal. Myc and grey hair like contams.
The fresh stem butts and caps were all transferred directly to an old 4ft 2x4 out back. Checked on them the other day and most took to the wood. Covered them in wood chips/coco/perlite. Planted ghost peppers on top.
Phenotypes acquired. June Azzies. I looked in a couple other spots but this was the only place I found any. One thing I noticed is it was around an active ant hill. Red and black medium-large sized ants. I wondered if they were similar to the ants that farm mycelium. They were carrying grass into the nest just like those ants do.
Dude I bet $10 those june mushrooms are less evolved Subaeruginosa, and I support the theory that all azurescens and allenii evolved from subs.
I read an article about baeocystin as an antidepressant with little to no psychedelic effects, saying that the paralytic effects cause the antidepressant effects. Now that could be elk shit, and this thread does mention aruginastin as the paralytic.
Think of how botox is used to treat migraines. Well, my opinion is that migraines and mental illness are from the asymmetry of our bran-body-mind, due to the Masons, or whoever is in charge building everything one way, like scissors. You can only cut with your right hand. Android OS, the back button is bottom right. ETC.
Now if you take something that paralyzes everything you are basically medicating that.
I enjoy the paralytic effect and I think it possible it wouldnt have evolved in the first place without some reason.
If you could selectively breed them to not be paralytic that would be super cool however, totally.
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green711
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: NeoSalmon327]
#27832414 - 06/22/22 11:55 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I have taken both Azures and Cyans and I think one or the other may be poisonous but I am no expert… I remember one particular trip it was Terrible, took a few grams (forgot which one) I felt sick and immobilized during it and it was hours of misery. It was telling me about the lifecycle of a mushroom and then at the end of the trip It said “now you know”….. after the trip my Head was absolutely throbbing and I went to go vape some weed immediately which helped a bit. So I won’t take any of those again. All of my other trips on regular cubensis have always been good. Can’t go wrong with a low dose of cubes, and even the high doses are much more tolerable or give great experiences.
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djbabyjesus


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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: NeoSalmon327]
#27832504 - 06/23/22 03:13 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Cyborg1993
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27832649 - 06/23/22 08:01 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I agree, "Wood Lover Paralysis" is concerning, and I will personally be avoiding any wood-lovers.
Pure Cubensis is fine by me.
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: Cyborg1993]
#27832920 - 06/23/22 12:22 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cyborg1993 said: I agree, "Wood Lover Paralysis" is concerning, and I will personally be avoiding any wood-lovers.
Pure Cubensis is fine by me.
That's a safe bet!
Not all wood lovers do this though. The name is kinda misleading. It's more accurate to say, "Organophosphate poisoning from certain wood loving Psilocybe." But even that is a bit of a misnomer because it can happen with liberty caps too. Wood loving Psilocybe provides a different experience than cubes. To me, Azurescens are like slow moving DMT. The visuals to mind fuck ratio is higher with wood lovers imo. I feel like I can get more visuals with wood lovers than cubes before my mind gets lost. Cyans are just awesome. So fun! Lots of visuals and a moderately clear mind.
Wood lovers are my favorite mushrooms. It would be a damn shame if we couldn't eat them.
Wood lovers are like Fugu, the Japanese pufferfish. "Despite its deadly potential, fugu has been eaten in Japan for hundreds of years. As it was initially unknown how to properly prepare the fish, there were many fatalities from fugu consumption."
I don't think people should be afraid of wood lovers altogether. I think though education we will see harm reduction. For example, I haven't heard anything bad about P. Allenii. It's a wood lover. Seems to be ok. It's kinda new on the scene and I've never personally experienced them so IDK for sure but so far no reports I am aware of. Same with Stunzii.
My goal here isn't to scare people. Although the truth can sometimes be scary. My goal is to educate, so people can make informed decisions and enjoy wood lovers without the negative side effects of organophosphate poisoning.
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NeoSalmon327
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27834655 - 06/24/22 03:21 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said:
Quote:
Cyborg1993 said: I agree, "Wood Lover Paralysis" is concerning, and I will personally be avoiding any wood-lovers.
Pure Cubensis is fine by me.
That's a safe bet!
Not all wood lovers do this though. The name is kinda misleading. It's more accurate to say, "Organophosphate poisoning from certain wood loving Psilocybe." But even that is a bit of a misnomer because it can happen with liberty caps too. Wood loving Psilocybe provides a different experience than cubes. To me, Azurescens are like slow moving DMT. The visuals to mind fuck ratio is higher with wood lovers imo. I feel like I can get more visuals with wood lovers than cubes before my mind gets lost. Cyans are just awesome. So fun! Lots of visuals and a moderately clear mind.
Wood lovers are my favorite mushrooms. It would be a damn shame if we couldn't eat them.
Wood lovers are like Fugu, the Japanese pufferfish. "Despite its deadly potential, fugu has been eaten in Japan for hundreds of years. As it was initially unknown how to properly prepare the fish, there were many fatalities from fugu consumption."
I don't think people should be afraid of wood lovers altogether. I think though education we will see harm reduction. For example, I haven't heard anything bad about P. Allenii. It's a wood lover. Seems to be ok. It's kinda new on the scene and I've never personally experienced them so IDK for sure but so far no reports I am aware of. Same with Stunzii.
My goal here isn't to scare people. Although the truth can sometimes be scary. My goal is to educate, so people can make informed decisions and enjoy wood lovers without the negative side effects of organophosphate poisoning.
There are many reports of bad experiences with stuntzii. Allenii is what I mostly grow and eat. I will read your thread about how to grow them not to cause the problem soon.
There is a researcher in New Zealand who also thought that the subaeruginosa in New Zealand are their own thing, and that Azurescens/Allenii are australian Sub cultivars.
These could have possibly been carried over by migratory birds, of which the longest path in the world is from New Zealand to North America.
Or, very possibly by boats. Captain cook for example. You think he never heard of magic mushrooms? BS. Even without trying, people have been bringing over whole plants from Aus/NZ for centuries, which could have contained mycelium. https://www.newworldexploration.com/explorers-tales-blog/captain-james-cook-goes-to-the-pacific-northwest It is known that cook brought with him tea tree beer and fruits for scurvy. Or even more easily it could be on planks used in the boat.... Imagine, what if they had a whole pile of planks inside the boat? A perfect wood lover grow.
Is azurescens not adapted to the dune grass? But the dune grass is an australian species.
The DEA approved lab sounds unlikely as I thought azurescens were around for 100 years. Does anybody know?
As for cyanescens... I heard those were around for centuries in Europe, but is there record of them from before Magellan and these other sailors?
I think it is awesome if these have co-evolved with humans. I mean, Allenii outcompetes Cyanescens in the bay area. The only way for Allenii or Azurescens to evolve into a whole new species is so many mutations while being physically separated.
But then wouldnt that have happened with cubensis already?
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schmutzen
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: NeoSalmon327]
#27835886 - 06/25/22 11:04 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Very neat ideas there. 
I think azzies were first classified in 1979, no idea how long they've actually been around.
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djbabyjesus


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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: NeoSalmon327]
#27837057 - 06/26/22 05:10 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
Reason for deletion: location
Edited by djbabyjesus (06/26/22 05:20 AM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus] 1
#27837475 - 06/26/22 02:01 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said: In the 70's Paul stamens had a DEA license to study psilocybin active mushroom species at Evergreen college. He currently holds patents based on how to use mushrooms to remove toxic organophosphates from the ground. I don't think it's a coincidence that the azurescens have a very high ability to de-phosphorylate soil contaminants.

Good call.
In the early 90s IIRC I called Fungi Perfecti to ask them about spores for actives. They said they didn't sell them and never had, so I went through Homestead instead. But I dug up an old from them in High Times sometimes in the early 80s advertising cubensis grow kits and supplies. 
"Plausible" deniability.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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schmutzen
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27837675 - 06/26/22 04:26 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Those Homestead kits where you just broke the q-tip were badass!
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"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper. Go to the country, build you a home."
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: schmutzen]
#27838002 - 06/26/22 08:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I ever only got the spore prints, cubes and Ps cyanescens. But they were almost always great prints.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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djbabyjesus


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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27841527 - 06/28/22 10:10 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Hey check this out. Genetic Survey of Psilocybe Natural Products 🔥
They tested P. azurescens, P. cubensis, P. cyanescens, P. mexicana, and P. serbica.
The mushrooms studied were shown to contain harmine, an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. Acute harmine intoxication leads to tremor, hypersalivation, agitation, and subsequently to paralysis, tonic clonic seizures, and eventually to death.
Still going though the study. Lots of good info.
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djbabyjesus


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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#27841605 - 06/28/22 10:53 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Harmaline and harmine fluoresce under ultraviolet light. These three extractions indicate that the middle one has a higher concentration of the two compounds.

This made me wonder....does azurescens extract glow as well? Below is fresh Azurescens blended in water heated and roughly filtered. Then frozen while on its side. The dark chunks are bits if mushrooms.
Sure does...Its a shitty picture. But you can see it glowing the same color as the harmine extract. I'll defrost it and take some more photos.

If harmine is the main culprit, we should be able to use a black light to see which extract glows more thus have an idea which contains more of the unwanted chemical.....Let me test some cubes cyans and azzies real quick and see if we can get a glow...brb.
Alright. I'll do another thread on this but I'm going to post a quick version here.
Cubes, Cyans and Azzies left to right. Unequal amounts. didn't weight it.

Notice no glowing from unheated vials.

boiled like tea...notice color changing...

The small one on the left is the control. It's still dark blue. The others lost most the blue color.

After heat extracting (tea), now the water glows. But not the cold water extracted Control vial. Btw, those were Azzies in there.

 Hot water on left cold on right.

If harmala alkaloids are responsible for WLP, then a cold water extraction is the way to go. It should leave the compounds insoluble in cold water in the mushroom.
Edited by djbabyjesus (06/30/22 03:03 AM)
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CHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus] 1
#27841983 - 06/29/22 08:11 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Cool tests! However people use Harmalas often via different ayahuasca brews and Syrian rue extractions I have not heard of people get paralysis with them so it makes me think something different is causing WLP.
-------------------- "What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
   
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
#27842259 - 06/29/22 12:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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The presence of harmine itself isn't a problem it's whatever substances it might interact with.
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: larry.fisherman]
#27842461 - 06/29/22 02:17 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
larry.fisherman said: The presence of harmine itself isn't a problem it's whatever substances it might interact with.
Thats what I was thinking. More of an entourage effect than harmala poisoning alone. It's still early in the experiment. I was hoping to get the info out there and have some other people do some more CWE testing to see if there is a way extract the goodies and not the bad. Using basic or salted water could work too. One thing I noticed, is the psilocybin was very soluble in room temp water. It washed right out.
I think what's happening is at a certain point, acetylcholinesterase just can't keep up with all the inhibitors and shuts down once hit hard enough. It's hard to say exactly what it is. Still tho, I think CWE are promising for nasty wood lovers and maybe able to change the cubensi experience for the better. Kinda like extracting LSA from morning glory seeds. Most reports I've read of people making tea, used hot water instead of cold.
Either way, acetylcholinesterase inhibiton can lead to wood lovers paralysis symptoms. So reducing the level of inhibition seems to be a good trail to follow. More testing and more info is needed on actual contents of picked mushrooms. In the study they only tested mycelium.
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PsychdelicSpore
Funginner


Registered: 08/08/22
Posts: 13
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27949245 - 09/14/22 07:10 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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True because. As we all know in any park or recreational place more than likely uses pesticide and fungicide to combat P. Azurescens from growing. In turn they kill the biology of the soil it's using and like Neem Oil on cannabis it will use the toxin. That's why in growing cannabis you don't want to use Neem in flower. It can cause lung problems, vomiting, GERD like symptoms and can kill you.
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: PsychdelicSpore]
#28434217 - 08/14/23 07:09 PM (5 months, 11 days ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
Reason for deletion: deleted
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: djbabyjesus]
#28440112 - 08/20/23 04:38 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
Reason for deletion: false
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: djbabyjesus]
#28440113 - 08/20/23 04:39 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Post deleted by djbabyjesus
Reason for deletion: false
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Icyurmt
Strange


Registered: 04/02/20
Posts: 1,625
Loc: 5a
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
#28440793 - 08/20/23 03:58 PM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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On a similar note, have you seen this paper that found l-abrine in P. serbica? l-abrine is 31 times more toxic than ricin.. Apparently serbica have another methyltransferase that is different then PsiM.
“P. serbica has long been known as a prolific psilocybin producer. Surprisingly, chromatographic analysis identified another set of l-tryptophan-derived natural products in this species, l-abrine and N,N-dimethyl-l-tryptophan.”
https://chemistry-europe.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/cplu.202000581
-------------------- 👁️ 🌊 why you are empty. Hunt for the habitat not the mushroom.
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: Icyurmt] 1
#28440912 - 08/20/23 05:39 PM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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Very interesting....Not yet. I'm going to dive in today/tonight. Thanks! 
Edit....Part way though and it's blowing my mind. 🤯
Edited by djbabyjesus (08/20/23 05:45 PM)
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