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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27831250 - 06/22/22 04:25 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I thought that may be the case. I wonder what kind? At least outside is still going well 😎


Edited by djbabyjesus (06/22/22 04:31 AM)


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27831284 - 06/22/22 05:38 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

No sorry, I don't really concern myself with competitors other than to rid my plates of them.

Next time consider cleaning the sample in peroxide or sterile water prior to taking it to agar.


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27831737 - 06/22/22 01:09 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Thats a good idea. I will try that. I put all the spore prints outside so It will be oct-nov before I attempt more agar plates. Thank you for the reply, I really appreciate it.


Edited by djbabyjesus (06/22/22 01:54 PM)


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OfflineNeoSalmon327
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27832044 - 06/22/22 05:31 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

djbabyjesus said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I continue to suspect genetics as the root cause, not environmental, if only because a common mutation could occur multiple times... :buzzaldrin:




Speaking of genetics...look what I found....Azurescens in JUNE!



These are from an area with numerous paralysis reports. However, these seem a little different than what I usually find in the same area. These are all kinda short. Plus, they were found out of season. Anyway, they were all pretty similar looking for the most part. I took spore prints and ordered some agar plates. I used the spores from #1, #2 and #3 in the pic below.



Plate #1 was started first. last week or so. I scraped some spores directly from the spore print and it grew mycelium and a grayish hair-like contamination. I cut out a clean part and transferred it to another plate (pink pic).

A few days later I cut out a few more chunks and transferred to new plates. The streaks you see are from me fumbling around with the transfer on the agar. Kinda cool...everywhere it touched turned to myc.

After that I decided to try cutting out the contamination from the first plate. Seems good idk... So far all the plates look clean. Spore collections #2 and #3 were started a couple days ago. Same deal. Myc and grey hair like contams.


The fresh stem butts and caps were all transferred directly to an old 4ft 2x4 out back. Checked on them the other day and most took to the wood. Covered them in wood chips/coco/perlite. Planted ghost peppers on top.

Phenotypes acquired. June Azzies. I looked in a couple other spots but this was the only place I found any. One thing I noticed is it was around an active ant hill. Red and black medium-large sized ants. I wondered if they were similar to the ants that farm mycelium. They were carrying grass into the nest just like those ants do.




Dude I bet $10 those june mushrooms are less evolved Subaeruginosa, and I support the theory that all azurescens and allenii evolved from subs.

I read an article about baeocystin as an antidepressant with little to no psychedelic effects, saying that the paralytic effects cause the antidepressant effects. Now that could be elk shit, and this thread does mention aruginastin as the paralytic.

Think of how botox is used to treat migraines. Well, my opinion is that migraines and mental illness are from the asymmetry of our bran-body-mind, due to the Masons, or whoever is in charge building everything one way, like scissors. You can only cut with your right hand. Android OS, the back button is bottom right. ETC.

Now if you take something that paralyzes everything you are basically medicating that.

I enjoy the paralytic effect and I think it possible it wouldnt have evolved in the first place without some reason.

If you could selectively breed them to not be paralytic that would be super cool however, totally.


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Offlinegreen711
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: NeoSalmon327]
    #27832414 - 06/22/22 11:55 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I have taken both Azures and Cyans and I think one or the other may be poisonous but I am no expert… I remember one particular trip it was Terrible, took a few grams (forgot which one) I felt sick and immobilized during it and it was hours of misery. It was telling me about the lifecycle of a mushroom and then at the end of the trip It said “now you know”…..  after the trip my Head was absolutely throbbing and I went to go vape some weed immediately which helped a bit. So I won’t take any of those again. All of my other trips on regular cubensis have always been good. Can’t go wrong with a low dose of cubes, and even the high doses are much more tolerable or give great experiences.


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: NeoSalmon327]
    #27832504 - 06/23/22 03:13 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by djbabyjesus

Reason for deletion: false


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InvisibleCyborg1993
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27832649 - 06/23/22 08:01 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I agree, "Wood Lover Paralysis" is concerning, and I will personally be avoiding any wood-lovers.

Pure Cubensis is fine by me.


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: Cyborg1993]
    #27832920 - 06/23/22 12:22 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cyborg1993 said:
I agree, "Wood Lover Paralysis" is concerning, and I will personally be avoiding any wood-lovers.

Pure Cubensis is fine by me.




That's a safe bet!

Not all wood lovers do this though. The name is kinda misleading. It's more accurate to say, "Organophosphate poisoning from certain wood loving Psilocybe." But even that is a bit of a misnomer because it can happen with liberty caps too. Wood loving Psilocybe provides a different experience than cubes. To me, Azurescens are like slow moving DMT. The visuals to mind fuck ratio is higher with wood lovers imo. I feel like I can get more visuals with wood lovers than cubes before my mind gets lost. Cyans are just awesome. So fun! Lots of visuals and a moderately clear mind.

Wood lovers are my favorite mushrooms. It would be a damn shame if we couldn't eat them.

Wood lovers are like Fugu, the Japanese pufferfish. "Despite its deadly potential, fugu has been eaten in Japan for hundreds of years. As it was initially unknown how to properly prepare the fish, there were many fatalities from fugu consumption."

I don't think people should be afraid of wood lovers altogether. I think though education we will see harm reduction. For example, I haven't heard anything bad about P. Allenii. It's a wood lover. Seems to be ok. It's kinda new on the scene and I've never personally experienced them so IDK for sure but so far no reports I am aware of. Same with Stunzii.

My goal here isn't to scare people. Although the truth can sometimes be scary. My goal is to educate, so people can make informed decisions and enjoy wood lovers without the negative side effects of organophosphate poisoning.


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OfflineNeoSalmon327
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27834655 - 06/24/22 03:21 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

djbabyjesus said:
Quote:

Cyborg1993 said:
I agree, "Wood Lover Paralysis" is concerning, and I will personally be avoiding any wood-lovers.

Pure Cubensis is fine by me.




That's a safe bet!

Not all wood lovers do this though. The name is kinda misleading. It's more accurate to say, "Organophosphate poisoning from certain wood loving Psilocybe." But even that is a bit of a misnomer because it can happen with liberty caps too. Wood loving Psilocybe provides a different experience than cubes. To me, Azurescens are like slow moving DMT. The visuals to mind fuck ratio is higher with wood lovers imo. I feel like I can get more visuals with wood lovers than cubes before my mind gets lost. Cyans are just awesome. So fun! Lots of visuals and a moderately clear mind.

Wood lovers are my favorite mushrooms. It would be a damn shame if we couldn't eat them.

Wood lovers are like Fugu, the Japanese pufferfish. "Despite its deadly potential, fugu has been eaten in Japan for hundreds of years. As it was initially unknown how to properly prepare the fish, there were many fatalities from fugu consumption."

I don't think people should be afraid of wood lovers altogether. I think though education we will see harm reduction. For example, I haven't heard anything bad about P. Allenii. It's a wood lover. Seems to be ok. It's kinda new on the scene and I've never personally experienced them so IDK for sure but so far no reports I am aware of. Same with Stunzii.

My goal here isn't to scare people. Although the truth can sometimes be scary. My goal is to educate, so people can make informed decisions and enjoy wood lovers without the negative side effects of organophosphate poisoning.





There are many reports of bad experiences with stuntzii. Allenii is what I mostly grow and eat. I will read your thread about how to grow them not to cause the problem soon.

There is a researcher in New Zealand who also thought that the subaeruginosa in New Zealand are their own thing, and that Azurescens/Allenii are australian Sub cultivars.

These could have possibly been carried over by migratory birds, of which the longest path in the world is from New Zealand to North America.

Or, very possibly by boats. Captain cook for example. You think he never heard of magic mushrooms? BS. Even without trying, people have been bringing over whole plants from Aus/NZ for centuries, which could have contained mycelium. https://www.newworldexploration.com/explorers-tales-blog/captain-james-cook-goes-to-the-pacific-northwest
It is known that cook brought with him tea tree beer and fruits for scurvy. Or even more easily it could be on planks used in the boat.... Imagine, what if they had a whole pile of planks inside the boat? A perfect wood lover grow.

Is azurescens not adapted to the dune grass? But the dune grass is an australian species.

The DEA approved lab sounds unlikely as I thought azurescens were around for 100 years. Does anybody know?

As for cyanescens... I heard those were around for centuries in Europe, but is there record of them from before Magellan and these other sailors?

I think it is awesome if these have co-evolved with humans. I mean, Allenii outcompetes Cyanescens in the bay area. The only way for Allenii or Azurescens to evolve into a whole new species is so many mutations while being physically separated.

But then wouldnt that have happened with cubensis already?


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: NeoSalmon327]
    #27835886 - 06/25/22 11:04 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Very neat ideas there. :thumbup:

I think azzies were first classified in 1979, no idea how long they've actually been around.


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind *DELETED* [Re: NeoSalmon327]
    #27837057 - 06/26/22 05:10 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by djbabyjesus

Reason for deletion: location


Edited by djbabyjesus (06/26/22 05:20 AM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus] * 1
    #27837475 - 06/26/22 02:01 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

djbabyjesus said:
In the 70's Paul stamens had a DEA license to study psilocybin active mushroom species at Evergreen college. He currently holds patents based on how to use mushrooms to remove toxic organophosphates from the ground. I don't think it's a coincidence that the azurescens have a very high ability to de-phosphorylate soil contaminants.





:waitwhat:

Good call.

In the early 90s IIRC I called Fungi Perfecti to ask them about spores for actives.  They said they didn't sell them and never had, so I went through Homestead instead.  But I dug up an old from them in High Times sometimes in the early 80s advertising cubensis grow kits and supplies. :laugh2:

"Plausible" deniability.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27837675 - 06/26/22 04:26 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Those Homestead kits where you just broke the q-tip were badass! :headbang:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: schmutzen]
    #27838002 - 06/26/22 08:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I ever only got the spore prints, cubes and Ps cyanescens.  But they were almost always great prints.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27841527 - 06/28/22 10:10 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Hey check this out. Genetic Survey of Psilocybe Natural Products 🔥

They tested P. azurescens, P. cubensis, P. cyanescens, P. mexicana, and P. serbica.

The mushrooms studied were shown to contain harmine, an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. Acute harmine intoxication leads to tremor, hypersalivation, agitation, and subsequently to paralysis, tonic clonic seizures, and eventually to death.

Still going though the study. Lots of good info.


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27841605 - 06/28/22 10:53 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Harmaline and harmine fluoresce under ultraviolet light. These three extractions indicate that the middle one has a higher concentration of the two compounds.



This made me wonder....does azurescens extract glow as well?
Below is fresh Azurescens blended in water heated and roughly filtered. Then frozen while on its side. The dark chunks are bits if mushrooms.

Sure does...Its a shitty picture. But you can see it glowing the same color as the harmine extract. I'll defrost it and take some more photos.




If harmine is the main culprit, we should be able to use a black light to see which extract glows more thus have an idea which contains more of the unwanted chemical.....Let me test some cubes cyans and azzies real quick and see if we can get a glow...brb.

Alright. I'll do another thread on this but I'm going to post a quick version here.

Cubes, Cyans and Azzies left to right. Unequal amounts. didn't weight it.


Notice no glowing from unheated vials.


boiled like tea...notice color changing...


The small one on the left is the control. It's still dark blue. The others lost most the blue color.


After heat extracting (tea), now the water glows. But not the cold water extracted Control vial. Btw, those were Azzies in there.



Hot water on left cold on right.


If harmala alkaloids are responsible for WLP, then a cold water extraction is the way to go. It should leave the compounds insoluble in cold water in the mushroom.


Edited by djbabyjesus (06/30/22 03:03 AM)


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: djbabyjesus] * 1
    #27841983 - 06/29/22 08:11 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Cool tests! However people use Harmalas often via different ayahuasca brews and Syrian rue extractions I have not heard of people get paralysis with them so it makes me think something different is causing WLP.


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #27842259 - 06/29/22 12:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The presence of harmine itself isn't a problem it's whatever substances it might interact with.


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #27842461 - 06/29/22 02:17 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
The presence of harmine itself isn't a problem it's whatever substances it might interact with.



Thats what I was thinking. More of an entourage effect than harmala poisoning alone. It's still early in the experiment. I was hoping to get the info out there and have some other people do some more CWE testing to see if there is a way extract the goodies and not the bad. Using basic or salted water could work too. One thing I noticed, is the psilocybin was very soluble in room temp water. It washed right out. 

I think what's happening is at a certain point, acetylcholinesterase just can't keep up with all the inhibitors and shuts down once hit hard enough. It's hard to say exactly what it is. Still tho, I think CWE are promising for nasty wood lovers and maybe able to change the cubensi experience for the better. Kinda like extracting LSA from morning glory seeds. Most reports I've read of people making tea, used hot water instead of cold.

Either way, acetylcholinesterase inhibiton can lead to wood lovers paralysis symptoms. So reducing the level of inhibition seems to be a good trail to follow. More testing and more info is needed on actual contents of picked mushrooms. In the study they only tested mycelium.


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OfflinePsychdelicSpore
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Re: Azurescens are Poisonous Mushrooms...Change my mind [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27949245 - 09/14/22 07:10 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

True because. As we all know in any park or recreational place more than likely uses pesticide and fungicide to combat P. Azurescens from growing. In turn they kill the biology of the soil it's using and like Neem Oil on cannabis it will use the toxin. That's why in growing cannabis you don't want to use Neem in flower. It can cause lung problems, vomiting, GERD like symptoms and can kill you.


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