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Anonymous #1

Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride?
    #27542980 - 11/14/21 12:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Idk it’s not going to hurt nobody what happens if you buy it will the government come? I might make delta 9 THC-O
I might sell it later but will you be on a list?


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Anonymous #2

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #27543200 - 11/14/21 02:57 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Ask someone that could ask Asante or maybe Enlil I bet someone that could ask them would know


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #27553131 - 11/22/21 02:00 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Acetic anhydride isn't illegal to have in the USA, but it's watched, so they might investigate people who buy it. 

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEA_list_of_chemicals


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Anonymous #2

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27553227 - 11/22/21 06:31 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
they might investigate people who buy it. 



I am curious, any idea how they go about those investigations? Digging into background, checking to determine intentions, licensing just like any other type of would-be criminal investigation proceedings?

i've never seen that list thank you


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Anonymous #3

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #2] * 1
    #27553265 - 11/22/21 07:21 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Difficult to source tactics, but obviously keeping an eye on past present and future browsing history, other purchases, working on the potential distribution line from end customers/friends upwards caught with something and blackmailed into cooperating.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #27553721 - 11/22/21 02:34 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #3 said:
obviously keeping an eye on past present and future browsing history



I wonder how much actual legal intent they can use from that..
What about academic studies and classes? What if someone browses a site like Erowid and curiously visits synthesis pages, and then later they enroll in college chem courses?
Would something like that likely cause issues? What if they never even purchase anything on watched lists, but they do make some unlisted chem purchases?


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Anonymous #3

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27553759 - 11/22/21 02:58 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

In theory not that much, but it depends on how much data can be correlated and acquired.

Since most things are likely automatized, it's no longer that costly or difficult to trigger some software notification worth of human confirmation for that student browsing erowid, buying watched chemicals, liking some alt groups on social media, and acquiring some otherwise innocent glassware then add this up as as 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 and yielding say 4/10 as interest index, which previous cases reported as say associated to a 65% chance of being likely involved in something that can be prosecuted, thus saving officers time over other students browsing only porn and buying less interesting items.

I might be wrong but it all boils down on how much metadata points into a certain profile likeliness.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #27554158 - 11/22/21 07:46 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting. Gosh it would be a shame if that person also just suddenly started picking up a scat fetish and just so happened to start losing important files mixed with video downloads.
Those poor officers.


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Anonymous #3

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27554347 - 11/23/21 01:08 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Mixing or diluting browsing history (or other activities) won't fix a profile flagging, since no matter which other uninteresting activities are conducted, it'd still be that watched chemical and that glassware that will raise one's interest score in someone's database.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #27554476 - 11/23/21 05:36 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #3 said:
Mixing or diluting browsing history (or other activities) won't fix a profile flagging, since no matter which other uninteresting activities are conducted, it'd still be that watched chemical and that glassware that will raise one's interest score in someone's database.



Ok but that's not considering someone who isn't going that route either though. What if they didn't buy anything watched, or at least didn't make any registered purchases with any registered vendors? Like what if they found some sort of unlicensed vendor or a way to obtain certain chemicals maybe from scratch even.
If they really are running it like a bingo card then I would assume just stay in the boxes that are already checked and just don't get checked on new ones, they don't win bingo you don't get prosecuted


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Anonymous #3

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27554590 - 11/23/21 07:45 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

True, but watching is not only browsing history, so one has to consider what puts you om the radar.
If selling or distributing then no matter how careful the manufacture and acquisition of materials was, it's more than likely the former that'll trace back.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #27554911 - 11/23/21 12:04 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Yes I would assume that much. I wanted to add too I suppose WHICH substance of intended prosecution is being looked at matters too. For instance some billionaire in china producing carfentanyl would probably get more investigation and punishment versus some guy that just wants to mix up some things strictly for himself.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27555390 - 11/23/21 06:07 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
I am curious, any idea how they go about those investigations?





Most often a knock and talk.  They also might steal your garbage to look for any evidence of illegal activity.

I don't think they would have a way to get any insight into your browsing history.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27555459 - 11/23/21 07:09 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
I am curious, any idea how they go about those investigations?





Most often a knock and talk.  They also might steal your garbage to look for any evidence of illegal activity.

I don't think they would have a way to get any insight into your browsing history.



Very interesting, I was wondering if they ever contacted before planning charges. And I would assume through contacting your ISP, but that is also problematic because then you still don't have definitive proof of who's doing the browsing on the other side of keyboard, or what their intentions are with the info. I've heard both yes and no to trash searching. I think if someone is going to do anything of this nature, they should figure out a way to run things at maximum entropy so nothing is left behind. Everything is put to a use somehow..


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #2] * 1
    #27557091 - 11/25/21 03:38 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
Very interesting, I was wondering if they ever contacted before planning charges. And I would assume through contacting your ISP, but that is also problematic because then you still don't have definitive proof of who's doing the browsing on the other side of keyboard, or what their intentions are with the info. I've heard both yes and no to trash searching. I think if someone is going to do anything of this nature, they should figure out a way to run things at maximum entropy so nothing is left behind. Everything is put to a use somehow..





Your ISP doesn't know your browsing history because almost all web connections are encrypted with strong encryption these days.  They know the IP addresses you are going to and how much data you sent, but often hundreds of websites are hosted on a single IP address so it wouldn't help them much to see the traffic.


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Anonymous #3

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #27557227 - 11/25/21 06:59 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
Very interesting, I was wondering if they ever contacted before planning charges. And I would assume through contacting your ISP, but that is also problematic because then you still don't have definitive proof of who's doing the browsing on the other side of keyboard, or what their intentions are with the info. I've heard both yes and no to trash searching. I think if someone is going to do anything of this nature, they should figure out a way to run things at maximum entropy so nothing is left behind. Everything is put to a use somehow..





Your ISP doesn't know your browsing history because almost all web connections are encrypted with strong encryption these days.  They know the IP addresses you are going to and how much data you sent, but often hundreds of websites are hosted on a single IP address so it wouldn't help them much to see the traffic.




Wouldn't they still be able to see that you browsed xxxchemsupplier and xxxcooknaughtythings even with HTTPS?


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #27557363 - 11/25/21 09:04 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #3 said:
Wouldn't they still be able to see that you browsed xxxchemsupplier and xxxcooknaughtythings even with HTTPS?




Maybe but probably not.  Firefox and Chrome encrypt DNS queries by default, and because xxxchemsupplier and xxxcooknaughtythings are very unlikely to be hosting their own server on a unique IP address, all your ISP would know is that you are going to one of hundreds of websites that is on that web server.  The HTTPS header tells the webserver which of it's many websites you are visiting, and that is encrypted by TLS with AES, so it would take the government hundreds to thousands of years to crack it.

It is possible you could send unencrypted DNS requests, but DNS requests are super common and don't mean you are using the site or buying anything.  They also get cached a lot so DNS requests won't necessarily line up with web requests.

The main way that people get in trouble buying chemicals is that the supplier reports a suspicious order to the DEA.  They often respond by knocking on your door and asking what you planned to use the chemicals for.


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Anonymous #3

Re: Can you get in trouble for buying Acetic anhydride? [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #27557619 - 11/25/21 12:45 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Anonymous #3 said:
Wouldn't they still be able to see that you browsed xxxchemsupplier and xxxcooknaughtythings even with HTTPS?




Maybe but probably not.  Firefox and Chrome encrypt DNS queries by default, and because xxxchemsupplier and xxxcooknaughtythings are very unlikely to be hosting their own server on a unique IP address, all your ISP would know is that you are going to one of hundreds of websites that is on that web server.  The HTTPS header tells the webserver which of it's many websites you are visiting, and that is encrypted by TLS with AES, so it would take the government hundreds to thousands of years to crack it.

It is possible you could send unencrypted DNS requests, but DNS requests are super common and don't mean you are using the site or buying anything.  They also get cached a lot so DNS requests won't necessarily line up with web requests.

The main way that people get in trouble buying chemicals is that the supplier reports a suspicious order to the DEA.  They often respond by knocking on your door and asking what you planned to use the chemicals for.




Informative as usual, thanks Alan!


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