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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: feevers]
    #27543984 - 11/15/21 08:58 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:

By the exemption thing I mean those business owners who are against mandates will be liberal with allowing "religious and medical" exemptions. Some will do so very publicly and cash in on the publicity and gofundme money.



To pay for the fines and eventual shutdown of the business...


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: Enlil]
    #27543987 - 11/15/21 08:59 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I didn't.  The business had to turn me away.  As I said, businesses are required to turn away people without proof of vaccination.  Claim whatever semantic victory you want, but everything in that sentence is true.




It's not though, at all.

My school required vaccination or testing from Jan-March. I wasn't vaccinated until the end of January. I didn't stay home from school saying "My professor was required to turn me away", I got tested and I went to school...

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: feevers]
    #27543995 - 11/15/21 09:05 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Irrelevant.  If two businesses each had to turn away a single person who didn't have proof of vaccination, my sentence is 100% true.  I've already established that I was one person.... what is the likelihood that I'm the only one?


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27544020 - 11/15/21 09:43 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

And I'm the one trying to claim a semantic victory?

My original statement was:
Quote:

the state does not require customers of a business to be vaccinated




Which is still true, even according to the city of LA's strict mandate.

You said you were turned away because you didn't have proof of vaccination.

The fact that you didn't have proof of vaccination is irrelevant because it's not even necessary for entrance. A negative test result or an exemption are just as valid as forms of entry as proof of vaccination. Whatever businesses are doing that extends beyond the mandate is their own choice.

Not saying that I agree with the LA mandate, but the fact that you can apparently get your nose swabbed twice a week and be immune to the mandate is a massive caveat to the "vaccination required" statement.

If businesses can legally allow someone who can't show proof of vaccination into their establishment, businesses are not required to turn away customers that can't show proof of vaccination... what is the likelihood that hasn't happened?

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: feevers]
    #27544035 - 11/15/21 09:57 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I said what I said because it was true and I meant it.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: Enlil]
    #27544058 - 11/15/21 10:11 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

:shrug:

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: feevers] * 1
    #27544139 - 11/15/21 11:27 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

The bottom line is that there should be a federally-mandated forced vaccination program for anyone who is medically able to be vaccinated.  Fuck religious exceptions.  It's time to start strapping people down and injecting them.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: Enlil]
    #27544172 - 11/15/21 11:50 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Don't forget the invisible ink

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: feevers]
    #27544175 - 11/15/21 11:51 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I don't care about that.  I care about public safety


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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: feevers]
    #27544267 - 11/15/21 12:57 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
States enact vaccine mandates for schools and child care facilities, some states have mandates for healthcare workers as well. The feds enact mandates for the military and some federal workers, countries require proof of vaccination to enter. Nothing new at all.




It is new in that these vaccines don't provide sterilizing immunity, and may require a shot every 6 months to maintain effectiveness (which is unstudied as well, and it seems like risk of adverse events increase with each booster). It's not an apples to apples comparison when comparing this to say tetanus or some other traditional vaccine, this whole scenario is different in so many ways, and so are the mandates - mandating for private companies is on the table right now, and there's never been a faster transition from inception of vaccine to mandate.


Quote:

feevers said:
The simplest solution to stopping people from getting sick and dying is to let them get sick and die?




You were using Occam's Razor to imply there isn't anything nefarious going on (by gov't, corps, etc), fair. I'm using it to imply the government should take a simpler stance and not mandate. Get if you want it.



Quote:

feevers said:
Do you genuinely believe that's the only reason that people get vaccinated?




There's literature to support natural immunity providing much better and longer lasting sterilizing immunity. In addition, there's evidence to support it's more robust against variants like Delta (and that's only logical, given that exposure to COVID exposes you to the whole virus, not just a spike protein based off the initial variant). It may then logically follow that if you're not at risk of hospitalization from COVID, it could be in the best interest of society that you choose the solution that maximizes sterilizing immunity. Sterilizing immunity prevents spread and saves lives, so if you're likely to not have a severe symptomatic reaction, perhaps it's best.

There's a lot of conflicting evidence in regards to how the vaccines prevent infection (not symptomatic infection) and transmission of the virus itself, especially in regards to the Delta variant. If that's the case, then yes you essentially are only helping yourself when getting vaccinated by reducing the odds and severity of symptomatic infection. What's wrong with this train of thought, to you?

I don't like that natural immunity isn't being treated as an option, and instead it's vaccination or nothing. What freaks me out the most though, is I've yet to see a consistent correlation between vaccination and case counts or hospitalizations dropping. It's reasonable for this to raise concern.


Quote:

feevers said:
Are we talking about reality or a hypothetical fantasy world you're creating? As far as I know in america the state does not require customers of a business to be vaccinated, the business does. Either you're agreeing that it's okay for gay people to be refused but those unwilling to comply with the business' health/safety policies should not be refused, or you're disagreeing with something that isn't happening and no one in this thread is making a case for.



It's not so much a fantasy world when the President and OSHA are actively pushing it, and many countries have already implemented it. But yes, I'm largely addressing what I feel like is on the menu and coming soon.

I agree businesses can decide to do what they want, but declining to bake a gay cake is different than requiring proof of medical records. The latter is certainly more invasive, for one.

Edited by junk_f00d (11/15/21 01:37 PM)

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: junk_f00d] * 2
    #27545370 - 11/16/21 08:21 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Very few vaccines have sterilizing immunity.

As far as natural immunity being better, which you have determined by intuition, consider this. The people who had more severe Covid cases have more immunity than the people who had less severe cases. That doesn't sound like a plan.


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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27545531 - 11/16/21 11:07 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Very few vaccines have sterilizing immunity.

As far as natural immunity being better, which you have determined by intuition, consider this. The people who had more severe Covid cases have more immunity than the people who had less severe cases. That doesn't sound like a plan.



I didn't determine it by intuition, but by supporting literature, as I said, see: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

Could you provide a source to backup the claim "The people who had more severe Covid cases have more immunity than the people who had less severe cases". Not sure if you mean they simply produced more antibodies, which wouldn't be suprising, but these guys fade. So your statement doesn't necassarily imply that someone with a less severe case may be more inclined to have a more severe case later. I'm not sure why you'd think this would be the case logically either. Someone who got over with minimal trouble will likely get over it even easier next time.

Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 01:30 PM)

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: junk_f00d]
    #27545939 - 11/16/21 03:23 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

From the anecdotal evidence here on the Shroomery the second infection has been generally worse, but that is because they had very mild cases the first time and the extra burden in the second infection is likely due to the stronger immune response your body has when you’ve had a previous exposure. Similar to how the second shot of the vaccine causes more side effects. Very likely someone who had a bad case the first time would have a mild case afterwards (if they survived)

My thinking on this is definitely influenced by how many people here have gotten covid twice and I’ve yet to see anyone vaccinated here say they got covid at all. Not a scientific study, but the fact that so many shroomerites report getting covid twice and none report getting it after being vaccinated can’t be ignored.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27325015

There’s another half dozen or so people who say they got it twice, most them after arguing that their natural immunity was superior to the vaccine 😂


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“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (11/16/21 03:26 PM)

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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: koods]
    #27546141 - 11/16/21 06:14 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
From the anecdotal evidence here on the Shroomery the second infection has been generally worse, but that is because they had very mild cases the first time and the extra burden in the second infection is likely due to the stronger immune response your body has when you’ve had a previous exposure. Similar to how the second shot of the vaccine causes more side effects. Very likely someone who had a bad case the first time would have a mild case afterwards (if they survived)

My thinking on this is definitely influenced by how many people here have gotten covid twice and I’ve yet to see anyone vaccinated here say they got covid at all. Not a scientific study, but the fact that so many shroomerites report getting covid twice and none report getting it after being vaccinated can’t be ignored.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27325015

There’s another half dozen or so people who say they got it twice, most them after arguing that their natural immunity was superior to the vaccine 😂



Well, 'breakthrough infections' seem to be occurring enough for it to be a topic on the MSM channels. It is also possible that those with milder symptoms the first had a false positive the first time.. IDK either way though.

Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 07:20 PM)

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: junk_f00d]
    #27547426 - 11/17/21 07:36 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

This fuckin guy.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27547534 - 11/17/21 09:12 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

There are a lot of false positives when people are tested without symptoms, especially when they are in the same household with someone who has covid. You can get enough virus in your nose to test positive but not be infected.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: junk_f00d]
    #27559013 - 11/26/21 11:17 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Invisible ink to tell if someone has been vaccinated? So then the vaccine DOES stay inside your body forever???

People touting this vaccine are such oxymorons.

So does the vaccine stay in  your body or does it digest its way out?? How does this invisible ink tell if someone is vaccinated?


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27559187 - 11/27/21 06:18 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

If you actually read the article you'd see that it's not the ink itself that stays behind, the ink is a kind of gene therapy that alters your DNA in the area it's injected, which they can then scan peoples's arms to see whether they have the proper DNA or not. In most cases it only alters the DNA in the direct area it's injected and doesn't make it to the reproductive organs or brain.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27559232 - 11/27/21 07:43 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
Invisible ink to tell if someone has been vaccinated? So then the vaccine DOES stay inside your body forever???

People touting this vaccine are such oxymorons.

So does the vaccine stay in  your body or does it digest its way out?? How does this invisible ink tell if someone is vaccinated?




What the fuck are you babbling about?


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Invisible Ink Could Reveal Whether You've Been Vaccinated [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27560210 - 11/28/21 01:07 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

It makes a lasting effect.


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