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InvisibleSoutherner
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien] * 3
    #27495870 - 10/07/21 10:19 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I’ve done this countless times now and since it has been so consistent I decided to do a small write up for anyone who’s interested.

The foil method:

Lay out plates, cook up your agar, pour them into the plates, allow to solidify and stack them to desired height. I twist the lid until the first sign of resistance and then stack.







When I was using the 16qt presto I believe I was doing stacks of 6. In the 25x I can do stacks of eight. Main points here are to leave some head room and to keep the bottom plate out of water. If it’s too tight on top I’ve had the plates crumple and if the water is hitting it at the bottom (take into account water boiling underneath) the bottom plates won’t be as clear.

Tear off a sheet of foil that’s wide enough to wrap the stack and slightly taller than the stack to fold over. Like the bottom plate up with the bottom side of the foil (make sure they’re right side up haha) and roll them up as you’d roll a carpet or sleeping bag. Get them as tight as possible. Once rolled up fold the remaining foil down. I do it over the seam but probably doesn’t matter.








Load them into the pressure cooker and cook at 15+psi for 15-20 minutes. Once the time is up cut off the heat. I leave mine on the hot surface to increase cooling time. Leave them inside the pressure cooker with weight/toggle still on or down. Leave them over night or until completely room temperature. This can 12-18 hours sometimes. If there is any warmth remaining when you open they will fog up. Severity depends on temperature difference in my experience.



Once completely cooled, remove from the pc and unwrap. Mine usually have a bit of moisture on them so I put iso on a paper towel and wipe them down. I stack the couple of plates that need time on bottom and the ready to use on top. I let the foil sheets air dry and save them to wrap with next time or cut into squares to use on the next jar run. Hopefully I’ll figure out how to run them naked at some point.



The top plate is usually very moist. One under it needs a couple days to clear and the rest are usually usable. Sometimes a bottom one will be a bit moist as well but usually 6/8 are ready to use. These were actually very slightly warm still and so fogged a tiny bit. Doesn’t matter much to me as they’ll clear in a day tops or after I open them to use.

Hope this helps someone and thanks to everyone in the thread and shroomery for all the info that got me here.


Edited by Southerner (10/07/21 10:50 AM)


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OfflineBabyRabbitDog
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Southerner]
    #27496073 - 10/07/21 01:06 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Following this


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Offlinekidcharlemagne
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: BabyRabbitDog]
    #27503854 - 10/14/21 04:44 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Wanted to get your guys' thoughts on an idea I had.  I've had 2 batches of HG plates get trich, though some plates took as long as a month to show.  My thoughts are that the most likely vector is through the steam vent on the PC when it cools and the pressure reequilibrates.  I actually use an insta-pot for HG plates for 40 min and while some may question the wisdom of 12 PSI, trich spores should die well before that. 

Anyway, I was thinking of taping the.2 micron filter from a unicorn bag around the steam vent when the cycle ends to catch any incoming trich.  Not sure if.2 microns allows enough airflow to equalize the air pressure in a reasonable amount of time, but figured I'd get your thoughts regarding if I'm wrong in any of my assumptions.  Thanks.


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Offlinejay.achS
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: kidcharlemagne]
    #27503880 - 10/14/21 06:06 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kidcharlemagne said:
Wanted to get your guys' thoughts on an idea I had.  I've had 2 batches of HG plates get trich, though some plates took as long as a month to show.  My thoughts are that the most likely vector is through the steam vent on the PC when it cools and the pressure reequilibrates.  I actually use an insta-pot for HG plates for 40 min and while some may question the wisdom of 12 PSI, trich spores should die well before that. 

Anyway, I was thinking of taping the.2 micron filter from a unicorn bag around the steam vent when the cycle ends to catch any incoming trich.  Not sure if.2 microns allows enough airflow to equalize the air pressure in a reasonable amount of time, but figured I'd get your thoughts regarding if I'm wrong in any of my assumptions.  Thanks.




My Presto had a rocker over the steam pipe and I leave it on while the PC cools.  However, I'll be the contam is showing up later - from where you are storing the plates, maybe?  I am making one batch of 40 plates per month and using 8 to 10 per week.  When I pull them out of the PC, I am storing them in this until I need them :



--------------------
“One's destination is never a place, but a new way of seeing things.”  - Henry Miller

LAGM v. 2.023
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InvisibleSoutherner
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: jay.ach]
    #27504039 - 10/14/21 09:58 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Kid, I wouldn’t mess with the vent just for fear of getting something stuck in it. From what I remember reading, mold will be dead before it even reaches the 12psi. Are you making sure all your lids are tight after removing them?

When you say they get trich is that untouched or after you have transferred to them or otherwise opened it? A simple accidental tap on the edge of the plate with a scalpel can cause contamination as well. Done it a bunch haha.

Edit: didn’t read that right. I’ve never used an instapot so hopefully someone who has can chime in.


Edited by Southerner (10/14/21 10:07 AM)


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Offlinekidcharlemagne
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Southerner]
    #27504058 - 10/14/21 10:26 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Yes these are untouched plates fully screwed.  The reason I suspect it happens in the PC, is that's when the cap is slightly loose and outside air absolutely will enter those plates as it cools.  It was summer and my house prob has a decent spore load, and if there's trich in the air, nothing will be stopping it.  I was thinking about taping a large piece around the steam vent, so It prob wouldn't get completely sucked in, though I'd be curious to see how long it would take to equalize pressure with a.2 micron filter over the vent.  That might be a while.  Anyway, just spit balling here.  Thanks for your thoughts.


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InvisibleSoutherner
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: kidcharlemagne]
    #27505271 - 10/15/21 09:01 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Man, that’s odd. I mean these plates don’t have a perfect seal or anything so if it’s taking a month maybe do smaller batches or even wrap them in cling wrap after you pull them out. I can’t see them talking a month to grow if the spores were pulled in after sterilization. I’d imagine they’d be growing within the week. Other than that I don’t have much for you, friend. Sorry I can’t help more.


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Southerner]
    #27505904 - 10/15/21 07:50 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

All my plates get contam eventually if sitting closed for long periods. These don't seal perfectly, and it never happened before I moved into a finished basement that has had mold remediation done once before.

I really doubt it's happening in the PC, but wrapping in foil or using a mason jar or a giant weird nutcracker thing would stop it if it were.


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: karri0n]
    #27505956 - 10/15/21 08:39 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I started out using these plates then switched to disposable petris that require pouring. I like the visibility and the lower sides that allow you to get your tools in at a lower angle, and they are bigger in diameter. But the contam rate is a lot higher and you have to wrap them after pouring, unwrap and re-wrap after each opening to do a transfer, and you end up with a lot of Petri dishes you have to dispose of…. Dozens a month. The contam rate is higher than I liked, probably 1 in 10. With the HG no pours, I think I had one contam, ever (from sitting in storage). There were a small handful of contams that happened as part of inoculation and transfers, but that is to be expected. So I decided to go back to these HGs for a while.

After PCing, I use the link in my sig to make them condensation free, then once that’s done I ensure the lids are tight and I put them in a plastic storage tote with a lid.


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Hindsight]
    #27517664 - 10/25/21 03:33 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Southerner said:
I’ve done this countless times now and since it has been so consistent I decided to do a small write up for anyone who’s interested.

The foil method:

Lay out plates, cook up your agar, pour them into the plates, allow to solidify and stack them to desired height. I twist the lid until the first sign of resistance and then stack.







When I was using the 16qt presto I believe I was doing stacks of 6. In the 25x I can do stacks of eight. Main points here are to leave some head room and to keep the bottom plate out of water. If it’s too tight on top I’ve had the plates crumple and if the water is hitting it at the bottom (take into account water boiling underneath) the bottom plates won’t be as clear.

Tear off a sheet of foil that’s wide enough to wrap the stack and slightly taller than the stack to fold over. Like the bottom plate up with the bottom side of the foil (make sure they’re right side up haha) and roll them up as you’d roll a carpet or sleeping bag. Get them as tight as possible. Once rolled up fold the remaining foil down. I do it over the seam but probably doesn’t matter.








Load them into the pressure cooker and cook at 15 psi for 15-20 minutes. Once the time is up cut off the heat. I leave mine on the hot surface to increase cooling time. Leave them inside the pressure cooker with weight/toggle still on or down. Leave them over night or until completely room temperature. This can 12-18 hours sometimes. If there is any warmth remaining when you open they will fog up. Severity depends on temperature difference in my experience.



Once completely cooled, remove from the pc and unwrap. Mine usually have a bit of moisture on them so I put iso on a paper towel and wipe them down. I stack the couple of plates that need time on bottom and the ready to use on top. I let the foil sheets air dry and save them to wrap with next time or cut into squares to use on the next jar run. Hopefully I’ll figure out how to run them naked at some point.



The top plate is usually very moist. One under it needs a couple days to clear and the rest are usually usable. Sometimes a bottom one will be a bit moist as well but usually 6/8 are ready to use. These were actually very slightly warm still and so fogged a tiny bit. Doesn’t matter much to me as they’ll clear in a day tops or after I open them to use.

Hope this helps someone and thanks to everyone in the thread and shroomery for all the info that got me here.




very cool that you only get a few condensation on the top plates with this method. I might add it to the suggestions in the main thread if proven to work.

To the people that get contaminations, increase your sterilization time, that might help. Also use outer containers like the nutcracker container to protect them more from contaminations? idk, i rarely get one contaminated.


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InvisibleSoutherner
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #27518937 - 10/26/21 01:59 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Been working great for me. I hope someone gives it a try sometime and reports back. Thanks for doing all the hard work and sharing these Alien. If only these damn things would stay in stock so I could get a couple more backup plates :lol:


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Offlineaurilien
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #27532012 - 11/06/21 12:46 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Newbie here but I've never had such exciting results until I did these HGs as my T3s (all from swabs in agar condiment cups).








Thanks Mr. Alien for sharing this tek. Hopefully will send these to oat jars and clone my best!


--------------------


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InvisibleDrboomer
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: aurilien]
    #27533301 - 11/07/21 05:30 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I managed to fit 96 plates in a presto 21b. Simply foil wrapped. Pcd 1hour due to the mass. Some we're tiny pf cakes to clean up swabs and prints.


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: aurilien]
    #27533849 - 11/07/21 01:48 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

aurilien said:
Newbie here but I've never had such exciting results until I did these HGs as my T3s (all from swabs in agar condiment cups).








Thanks Mr. Alien for sharing this tek. Hopefully will send these to oat jars and clone my best!




You will love them for cloning, you can use 10 HG's if you want to clone a single fruit to ensure a clean culture, using 10 HG's doesn't hurt you at all as using 10 regular petri dishes that requires significantly more work/money, and the visibility of the HG is awesome given the fact that they are reusable.


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #27534218 - 11/07/21 07:29 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I must need to clean my PC or something because my HG plates are nowhere near as clear as those in aurilien's photos. They are about that clear when new, but after the first PC cycle they get a film on them. I've tried acetone and ISO to clean the film off but neither got them back to new. Open to suggestions. Even with the film, the visibility is "good enough" for me. Not as clear as a disposable but I can always open the lids in my SAB and get a crystal clear view if I'm questioning anything about how the culture looks.


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InvisibleDoctor Mario
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27534252 - 11/07/21 08:41 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Add a few tablespoons of distilled white vinegar to the water in your PC before you use it. It'll keep your jars and anything else from getting that white fog.


--------------------



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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #27535811 - 11/08/21 05:48 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I wonder why commercial manufacturers haven't started using or created something similar to the HG plates... I have to imagine that at an industry scale implementing these plates would have a substantive reduction in production cost since they're almost endlessly reusable.

The visibility is a downside I suppose and maybe the increased risk of not seeing contamination would make it not worthwhile? (since at an industry scale a contaminant can cost far more than just a single lost batch)

I'm really wanting to see these (or similar dishes) become more mainstream in mush cultivation...


--------------------

:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #27536070 - 11/08/21 09:04 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizomorph said:
I wonder why commercial manufacturers haven't started using or created something similar to the HG plates... I have to imagine that at an industry scale implementing these plates would have a substantive reduction in production cost since they're almost endlessly reusable.

The visibility is a downside I suppose and maybe the increased risk of not seeing contamination would make it not worthwhile? (since at an industry scale a contaminant can cost far more than just a single lost batch)

I'm really wanting to see these (or similar dishes) become more mainstream in mush cultivation...




I'd like to see a wider version and with pp6 plastic instead of pp5. Pp6 is an autoclavable plastic that is much more crystal clear than pp5.

Here is a pp6 flask, you can actually see my arm through it, and my arm is below two plastic layers of the flask (due to the curvature of the flask).



So it can actually be made for laboratory purposes, but it needs to be pp6, anyone who want to make money, will just need to figure out how to make HG wider and made of pp6.


Edited by Mr. Alien (11/08/21 09:29 PM)


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #27536291 - 11/09/21 09:21 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

RE adding vinegar to the PC to help keep the HGs free of film, is there any risk of that vinegar entering the plates as steam and acidifying the agar? I don't use jars or outer containers on my plates anymore - just set them on the trivet 2" above the water level (via trivet spacers).


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers. [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27536374 - 11/09/21 10:49 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hindsight said:
RE adding vinegar to the PC to help keep the HGs free of film, is there any risk of that vinegar entering the plates as steam and acidifying the agar? I don't use jars or outer containers on my plates anymore - just set them on the trivet 2" above the water level (via trivet spacers).




No I don't think so, I have also done plates the same way you mentioned and didn't notice any difference in the growth.


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