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OfflineAnnashroom
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Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics
    #27534740 - 11/08/21 10:00 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

So I'm new here! I wasn't sure where to post this, so if a mod can move it please do and I apologize in advance if so:

How do you feel about people who are virulently anti-drug? Like, magic shrooms have helped me already and I've only had one experience. They help me compartmentalize my thoughts and my irrational negative emotions. I feel like shrooms can be very medicinal but many people just see all drugs as controversial or bad.

But I also feel that people's aversion towards psychs (and drugs in general) is part of the reason why shrooms will be illegal for a very long time, because big businesses have a vested interest in keeping shrooms illegal and when society itself is convinced that drugs ARE bad, it's especially convenient to these big businesses who remain unchallenged by alternative markets.


Does anyone have anything to add about this? And I'm referring mainly to drug stigmas and how it affects culture and political decision making.

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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Annashroom]
    #27534792 - 11/08/21 10:40 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I love it when people go gross i dont do drugs as they have a alcoholic beverage in one hand an cigarette in the other lol.

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Invisible897
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Mach z 800]
    #27554810 - 11/23/21 10:32 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I think a lot of it has to do with markets and marketing. Why do we need our drugs to be for profit? Grow, gather, gift. Buy/trade seeds/spores or raw materials and that's all it should be.

Making everything a commodity is part of the toxicity. There's nothing inherently wrong with any substance, but there is something very wrong with the need to guarantee, produce, profit from, and protect a "product."

I wish they would decriminalize all of it and do away with "legalization."

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Annashroom]
    #27555065 - 11/23/21 01:56 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I feel like shrooms can be very medicinal but many people just see all drugs as




  Drugs destroy peoples lives if they aren't used responsibly  with extreme regard given to side effects and consequences.   
  If all you ever wanted was for little Johnny to be a doctor but his life ends up reminding of that movie Basketball Diaries it's not hard to see how people get there.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Annashroom]
    #27555090 - 11/23/21 02:09 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Most people don't know a lot about drugs. I find that most people aren't particularly anti-drug, they just don't really know a lot about them.

Some drugs are legitimately dangerous and life destroying, like opiates. Even psychedelics can be dangerous if people don't know what they're doing (though not on the same scale as opiates obviously). A certain amount of caution when it comes to drugs is reasonable and even responsible. Addiction is something that should be avoided whether you're talking alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, etc. Lots of people have problems with addiction, so some aversion to drugs might come from a concern about addiction.

Having said that, throwing drug users in jail doesn't help anyone. That's why they shouldn't be illegal, because prohibition doesn't work.

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: nooneman]
    #27555162 - 11/23/21 03:00 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

If I had a dime for every person I told not to take too much that I sold shrooms to , and a nickel for every one of their boyfriends girlfriends or family members that hated me for what happened I would probably have  profited an xtra 20 bucks from their pain .
  Why people wouldnt listen to me I'll never know but I had to quit because of it .  People are just irresponsible and foolish .
  I'm honestly concerned about shrooms being legal just from my own experiences dealing them .
I love shrooms but fuck me people are dumb .
  Sometimes I feel like all we can be trusted with is 200 mg of ibuprofen and a joint .


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Invisible897
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27555189 - 11/23/21 03:25 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Again, I'd argue that the problem stems from the commodification of it. People aren't just buying a substance, they are buying the experience. They might have heard a friend of a friend say what qn amazing experience they had on 5g and decide that their prime task os to have that same experience, then they don't weigh and just eat the bag and 7g goes straight to their brain in the form of something they have never experienced. Next thing you know they think they have overdosed and died, but the being that brought them back from physical death only did so because there is a singular purpose to their life that they must accomplish. Their significant other or family hears them and pushes them toward a mental health system that is going to stigmatize them and pump them full of drugs when this all could have possibly been avoided by a more responsible party guiding them through their first experience.

Fuck selling shrooms man. Grow, gather, and gift!

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: nooneman]
    #27556471 - 11/24/21 03:12 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:

Having said that, throwing drug users in jail doesn't help anyone. That's why they shouldn't be illegal, because prohibition doesn't work.



They can stay illegal without anyone going to jail, though.  It isn't an either/or proposition.  I can see a real value in keeping certain drugs illegal, even though it should not be a crime to possess those drugs.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Enlil]
    #27556688 - 11/24/21 06:54 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I agree, but production and distribution is a tricky issue.

Drug purity and contamination is a concern if drugs are being manufactured illegally. You might be able to partially overcome this with good enough testing kits and testing facilities, but there's another problem. Illegal production often funds organized crime, which should probably be avoided.

Illegal distribution also funds organized crime, and it can lead to other serious crimes in the process.

Ideally I guess you'd probably have either chemical, pharmaceutical, or medical companies distributing directly to consumers, or you'd maybe have the government do it. Any of these would be tricky politically, but they'd have some advantages. You could offer people alternatives and addiction treatment options every time they bought whatever drug they wanted. Over time this might funnel more people toward treatment. You'd also be diverting money away from organized crime and ensuring drug purity. You might be able to monitor someone's use and could maybe try to prevent it from going beyond a certain level. You could also combine this with safe injection facilities and so on.

Keeping the status quo in distribution has the downside that the status quo is not very effective. Sure, we're currently preventing some level of addiction and overdose, but 100,000 people still died last year of overdose which indicates that we could be doing better.

I'm all for some kind of middle ground, I'm just not sure what exactly it should look like. Certainly, like you I do see the advantages of keeping certain drugs illegal in terms of production and distribution. But I wonder if there's a better way because what we're doing now isn't working very well.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: nooneman]
    #27556743 - 11/24/21 08:06 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

People die from legally produced drugs all the time.  People who manufacture dangerous substances should be prosecuted if those substances are intentionally distributed to people.  That's a pretty basic concept, and we shouldn't be making exceptions because some people want to get fucked up.  As to addicts/users, jail is the absolute worst possible outcome for them.  Imagine working your ass off to beat addiction only to find out that your criminal record is just going to hold you back forever.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Enlil]
    #27557724 - 11/25/21 02:59 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
People who manufacture dangerous substances should be prosecuted if those substances are intentionally distributed to people.




I'm pretty sure under this statement, literally everyone should be prosecuted. The dose determines the poison.

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Enlil]
    #27558038 - 11/25/21 11:08 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
People die from legally produced drugs all the time.  People who manufacture dangerous substances should be prosecuted if those substances are intentionally distributed to people.  That's a pretty basic concept, and we shouldn't be making exceptions because some people want to get fucked up.  As to addicts/users, jail is the absolute worst possible outcome for them.  Imagine working your ass off to beat addiction only to find out that your criminal record is just going to hold you back forever.



Users are going to do drugs whether they're getting it from a legal source or an illegal source. By getting it from one of the places I described, there are advantages like not funding organized crime, ensuring drug quality, funneling people towards treatment, and keeping use at a certain level. Keeping the production and distribution in the hands of organized crime isn't going to lessen the amount of drugs or addicts in the world beyond what it's already at. By controlling production and distribution you could at least do these other things that I talked about.

Drugs are going to be there either way, do you want that money benefiting organized crime, or do you want it going to a tax paying corporation? We have no control over distribution or production as long as it is illegal.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Kryptos]
    #27558225 - 11/26/21 08:09 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
People who manufacture dangerous substances should be prosecuted if those substances are intentionally distributed to people.




I'm pretty sure under this statement, literally everyone should be prosecuted. The dose determines the poison.



That's a very broad definition of "dangerous substances."  Water isn't dangerous, even though many people die from it every year.  "Danger" is about the way in which something poses a threat based on human difficulty with safely using it.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: nooneman]
    #27558227 - 11/26/21 08:10 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:

Drugs are going to be there either way, do you want that money benefiting organized crime, or do you want it going to a tax paying corporation? We have no control over distribution or production as long as it is illegal.



Looks like a false dichotomy to me.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Enlil]
    #27558448 - 11/26/21 01:13 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
People who manufacture dangerous substances should be prosecuted if those substances are intentionally distributed to people.




I'm pretty sure under this statement, literally everyone should be prosecuted. The dose determines the poison.



That's a very broad definition of "dangerous substances."  Water isn't dangerous, even though many people die from it every year.  "Danger" is about the way in which something poses a threat based on human difficulty with safely using it.




Ever tried to get your insurance company to cover a pool? Water is pretty dangerous, yo.

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OfflineOz_Salvia
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Registered: 04/14/20
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Kryptos]
    #27565192 - 12/01/21 06:40 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Many people have had bad experiences with drug addicts because they have been robbed or burgled by them. Others have been on the receiving end of drug and alcohol drivers. The rates of domestic violence often have substance abuse. Drugs have a bad reputation because of the people who get stupid doing them. This is never going to change. There's no point even debating this.

Further, dealing drugs is completely reckless often because the buyers will do stupid things or talk to the wrong people while off their face and the attention gained adds odds to you getting caught. If you weight up each gained meagre handful of dealing dollars it's not commensurate to the impact on your future earnings. You're literally dumping your future down the shitter on small money now to never realise much more legitimate later. If you are dealing cease now and consider your chips cashed in and walk away. Madness not to. Get a real job.

Don't sell and don't tell. Grow your own and keep what you do well hidden. Behave and don't attract attention. Stay away from the idiots.

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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: Drug Stigmas, Culture & Politics [Re: Annashroom]
    #27576834 - 12/11/21 01:54 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Being a prude is so last century.

The existentialist in me preaches, enjoy your life, have fun, be merry, because every single one of us is 1 bad day away from forever sleep.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"


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