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Offlineshroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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All matter is conscious
    #27524661 - 10/30/21 09:45 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Guys, what do you think about the possibility that all matter is conscious?


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Offlineangelribs
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: shroomening]
    #27524669 - 10/30/21 09:51 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

hmm can you elaborate im curious?


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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
Re: All matter is conscious [Re: shroomening]
    #27524676 - 10/30/21 10:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shroomening said:
Guys, what do you think about the possibility that all matter is conscious?




agreed. but i would also consider non-matter being conscious also


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🐴:poop:
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Offlineshroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: angelribs] * 1
    #27524677 - 10/30/21 10:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

angelribs said:
hmm can you elaborate im curious?




Not to go into too much detail, but in short, there is research that indicates that atoms (or similar?) can feel that they are being observed. Which suggests that they have consciousness. And if you think about it, with the big bang and everything, research also seems to indicate that before the big bang, there was only consciousness in the universe. And so, if everything comes from there, then every quantum piece should be conscious? And we who have tried psychedelic drugs, such as mushrooms and especially DMT - we feel that we are entering a consiousness, the universe itself, And it feels very logical that everything comes from a consiosness, who then created the whole creation, as a simulation. Everything is "God". If so, then every atom (which everything in this simulation consists of, even the air we breath) should be conscious.


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Offlineshroomening

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: split_by_nine]
    #27524679 - 10/30/21 10:01 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

split_by_nine said:
Quote:

shroomening said:
Guys, what do you think about the possibility that all matter is conscious?




agreed. but i would also consider non-matter being conscious also




Yes exactly, I mean it, everything. Matter, non-matter. All that exists.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Registered: 07/10/11
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: shroomening] * 1
    #27524788 - 10/30/21 11:41 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I don't disagree with the thread title necessarily, but I think consciousness is a poor word in this frame of reference, because it can both be true and false in the sentence "All matter is conscious" depending on context. By that I mean that saying that all matter is conscious doesn't really say much about the Universe without context, it can be as benign or epiphany inducing as the poetry being applied to the words. Without a good setup semantically, we are both poorly describing the nature of all matter and lessening the impact of the word 'conscious' simultaneously.

Defining conscious as any of the following:

1. having knowledge of something; aware.
2. aware of and responding to one's surroundings; awake.
3. (of an action or feeling) deliberate and intentional.

I believe that given these definitions, for consciousness to take place some form of memory recall is a requirement. Memory doesn't have to be limited to animal or biological means by any stretch, however some form of memory is a prerequisite to (1) hosting knowledge, (2) being able to respond to something or (3) deliberately taking action.

In this, I'm loosely defining memory as any process which allows for the collection, organization and recall of a copy or approximation of information. Applying memory to 'all matter' can be done, but it requires some leaps and breaks down depending on the scale of reference.

Both conscious and memory are poor word choices to describe the Universe because they rely so heavily on context and frame of reference to make sense.

Let's attempt to apply consciousness to a crystal. Within the crystal is a network of organized matter which could only have taken place after a specific set of circumstances took place. In this way, we can broadly define its structure and composition as information. Though it is information, it is not memory until a process has collected it and interpreted it against other information.

Consciousness isn't the crystal because the crystal cannot recall its history given the information within it. Consciousness is instead the process which turned the information in the crystal into memory and recalled the memory.

As another example, lets apply the same to the Universe in its entirety. Let's assume The Universe has a snapshot of itself where everything is frozen in place, we have a perfect 3d photo of the Universe at this particular time period. We have all kinds of information about the coordinates of particles in this snapshot, just as we have many coordinates and information when we look at a crystal. However, we cannot deduce where any of the matter is going or where it came from, because we do not have a secondary point of reference.

If we had another point of reference from another snapshot in time, we could predict, react, plan and engage with our snapshot. But if all we have is a singular photo with points in time and space, we cannot assume anything about where specific particles are coming from or going to because we have no memory to interpret anything from. In this way a still snapshot is unconscious and only attains consciousness when it accomplishes two things - has memory, and reacts to the memory.

So while I agree that processes like this exist in all matter, I think consciousness is unique to systems within the Universe which can organize and react to information that have been collected. A galaxy within the Universe may be conscious, but only on a semantic level that does not really say anything about the way a galaxy reacts to information versus a human.


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InvisibleAsclepius
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: shroomening]
    #27524802 - 10/31/21 12:02 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shroomening said:
Guys, what do you think about the possibility that all matter is conscious?




I have personally felt that all matter is conscious, especially while on a sacred journey, not entirely different from the belief of animists.  If you ask me, it is possible that our understanding of consciousness is limited by our perception of reality.  I know that statement is not very scientifically based, albeit I have experienced trees communicating with each other while under the influence of mescaline... It was as if they had their own language, like, Lord of The Rings, Ents style talking. 

:trippindude:


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A society governed in terms of double standards is self-destructive




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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: shroomening]
    #27524852 - 10/31/21 02:03 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Agreed.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Invisibleobaku
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27527490 - 11/02/21 01:02 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

consciousness permeates the universe


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The master's gone herb gathering, somewhere on the mountain, cloud-hidden, whereabouts unknown.


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Offlinedruqs
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: shroomening]
    #27527564 - 11/02/21 02:08 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Panpsychism certainly has an appealing fundamental wholesomeness about it, i'm not sure if it's exactly what you are describing though op.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: druqs]
    #27527580 - 11/02/21 02:26 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I don't have the luxury of thinking about this kind of question anymore.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: PatrickKn] * 1
    #27528460 - 11/03/21 07:56 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

The definition of consciousness is always an issue :smirk:

I read, many months ago, something about OP's topic. It brought up an interesting split, into a consciousness experienced by all existence and a conciosuness which pervades existence and is remembered by select "entities".

The first can be thought of as existence without memory (or...time?) - a rock, for example. A rock knows it is a rock. A rock can feel certain things. If I kick a rock down a hill, it has the experience of falling. It felt gravity. It felt the other things bumping against it as it rolled. A rock can't remember anything, though. It just is.

A rock can't do anything to anything else.

If we test a rock, watch as it falls and bumps into things, pretty soon we'll find patterns in the falls and bumps. It becomes clear that this is a very mechanical system at work. It's as if every fall of the rock is it's first fall. A rock can't remember, so it can't change anything about reality.

On the other end of the scale, humans, we express a much more visceral experience of reality. We remember things, and use that memory to make future decisions about what we do. If I trip and tumble down a hill, it hurts. I can then use that memory to make adjustments to what I do, in the future. I can step more surely. Tuck when I fall. I can choose to do things to the world around me.

If you test humans, like we did that rock, you'll find a dizzying number of possible permutations. We can and do change reality, perhapse by our very being here. We can fly, if we want to  :flyhigh:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: shroomening]
    #27528462 - 11/03/21 08:00 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shroomening said:
Guys, what do you think about the possibility that all matter is conscious?





Matter is made of energy, everything is, and that energy is all connected as one, and that One is conscious.

You might want to read the Omnicyclion linked in my sig :naughty:


To pre-empt, if I say "everything is made of energy", if someone wants to counter with "what about nothing then?" :uptosomething: Nothing is not a thing therefore it has no parameters that justify saying it exists. True Nothing is truly not a thing.

If you have a bottle, and have a Kardashian suck out all the air leaving you with a perfect vacuum, you don't, in fact, have a bottle of nothing: you have a bottle of spacetime. The distance between the walls is still measured in space and time.

If you then let mr Trump suck out all the spacetime, what you are left with is a solid glass rod. The actual space, mass and all parameters the "nothing" in the bottle occupies, is exactly zero.
It is not there.

Outside the multiverse is nothing, and all that infinite nothing combined, has zero size, zero substance. All of that would fit it an electron an uinfinite number of times.

Again, true nothing is not there.

Our vacuum is false because it consists of spacetime.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: Asante]
    #27528530 - 11/03/21 09:22 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

How much does a pound of spacetime weigh?


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #27528534 - 11/03/21 09:26 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

One pound


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: morrowasted]
    #27528573 - 11/03/21 09:57 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

The question is more, how much spacetime constitutes a pound of space?


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: Asante]
    #27528580 - 11/03/21 10:02 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Depends on whenwhere it is


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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: Asante]
    #27528584 - 11/03/21 10:05 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Is that the universal constant for spacetime


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OfflineGrimTroll
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #27528630 - 11/03/21 10:51 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Absolutely is - I can spread my consciousness into inanimate objects in the right state of mind.

Now I'm the wall and ceiling.


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Now pick me up night and whirlwind and let me ride with you to peace of mind and nothing to rebel...


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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: All matter is conscious [Re: shroomening]
    #27528643 - 11/03/21 10:57 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shroomening said:
Not to go into too much detail, but in short, there is research that indicates that atoms (or similar?) can feel that they are being observed. Which suggests that they have consciousness. And if you think about it, with the big bang and everything, research also seems to indicate that before the big bang, there was only consciousness in the universe. And so, if everything comes from there, then every quantum piece should be conscious? And we who have tried psychedelic drugs, such as mushrooms and especially DMT - we feel that we are entering a consiousness, the universe itself, And it feels very logical that everything comes from a consiosness, who then created the whole creation, as a simulation. Everything is "God". If so, then every atom (which everything in this simulation consists of, even the air we breath) should be conscious.




So, if you're interested in logic, I'd like to point out some leaps you made here.

Research indicating that atoms react to observation does not indicate that the atoms are conscious or feel. You may imagine observation as simply looking, like I would observe a rock, but when we are talking atoms it's not quite that simple. It is not possible to observe something on that scale without physically interacting with it.

I know of no research that suggests there was consciousness before the big bang. This sounds like a flat out unverifiable guess.

Now, you can say this thought process is logical, yet at every turn, you site feelings as your reason.

Through drugs we feel that we are "entering" a consciousness.

It feels very logical that everything comes from a consciousness.

Are feelings a reliable pathway to truth?


Edited by Svetaketu (11/03/21 11:06 AM)


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