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OfflineAdas
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: sandman420]
    #27526505 - 11/01/21 03:16 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. There was a lot of talk about this in the FB group some time ago. The conclusion was that clone = monoculture. Two distinct cultures cannot produce one fruiting body. At least not in the mushrooms we are interested in.

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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: Adas]
    #27526507 - 11/01/21 03:18 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I would take anything read on facebook and wipe my ass with it that's just me though.

my argument to that is that a clone will usually not display any of the target traits, often giving all kinds of results from tub to tub. But a monoculture or isolate will always give the same results. So therefore a clone is not a monoculture.


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Edited by sandman420 (11/01/21 03:25 PM)

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: sandman420] * 1
    #27526519 - 11/01/21 03:26 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

A clone is  not an isolate, a monoculture refers to the presence of a single crop/organism so all axenic cultures are a monoculture; and an isolate is either a single germinated spore that produces a single monokaryotic hypha, or a single strain that is the result of two mated pair of individual hyphae emerging from 2 distinct spores.

You're not capable of reducing a multispore culture to a single strain isolate via transfers from plate to plate;
This requires microscopy and some means of spore manipulation to isolate spores from each other to prevent mating.


Edited by Stipe-n Cap (11/01/21 03:33 PM)

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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27526524 - 11/01/21 03:28 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

:trustme:

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InvisibleQM33
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27526532 - 11/01/21 03:31 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Ehhh. From what I understand an isolate is single sector growth. A mono culture is a single strain, that which contains only the genetic data of a single organism, not multiple organisms of the same type. So no axenic spawn is not a monoculture, it's is just axenic. A clone can contain hundreds of organism.
That's why commercial companies sell monocultures that are, yes, isolated strains, but the term isolate in mycology is not the same as monoculture, I do believe.

Edited by QM33 (11/01/21 03:32 PM)

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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: Failboat]
    #27526533 - 11/01/21 03:31 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Yea, I understood some of those words


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: sandman420]
    #27526536 - 11/01/21 03:32 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

But yet when we look up monoculture via the internet...

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: QM33]
    #27526537 - 11/01/21 03:34 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

What I said is what you will find in a mycology textbook, what I said is verifiable and correct.

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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27526541 - 11/01/21 03:36 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I concur.:popcorn:

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OfflineAdas
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: sandman420]
    #27526549 - 11/01/21 03:42 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sandman420 said:
I would take anything read on facebook and wipe my ass with it that's just me though.

my argument to that is that a clone will usually not display any of the target traits, often giving all kinds of results from tub to tub. But a monoculture or isolate will always give the same results. So therefore a clone is not a monoculture.




Those are professional mycologists that said that, though. So if you wanna wipe your ass with it go ahead, I'm not gonna. :shrug:

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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: Failboat]
    #27526550 - 11/01/21 03:43 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

right well anyway my point was that enigma is the more 'isolated' of either an 'isolate' or 'monoculture', so aside from grabbing tissue just to keep things rolling in case you forgot back ups, i was curious why one would that. to my understanding, due to it being an isolate/mono, the cloned fruit wouldn't display any characteristics the parent culture didn't

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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: junk_f00d]
    #27526552 - 11/01/21 03:44 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

A glossary of mycological terms, should one be interested.

https://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/fungi/mycoglossary.htm#mwords

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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27526556 - 11/01/21 03:47 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
A glossary of mycological terms, should one be interested.

https://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/fungi/mycoglossary.htm#mwords



too bad they don't define isolate or monoculture. anyway i agree a clone is not an isolate/mono (unless it came from one), but was under the impression isolate and monoculture are used interchangeably and refer to single sector growth.. so 'sampling' it seemed unnecessary.. I wouldn't bother cloning my 3015 oysters for example since it's already isolated and needs no further narrowing of genetics

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InvisibleQM33
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27526561 - 11/01/21 03:51 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

That doesn't have isolate or mono culture in it..?


monoculture noun
.

Marion Webster
mono·cul·ture | \ ˈmä-nə-ˌkəl-chər  \
Definition of monoculture
1a: the cultivation or growth of a single crop or organism especially on agricultural or forest land
b: a crop or a population of a single kind of organism grown on land in monoculture
c: growth consisting of a single crop, plant, or organism
The plant forms a thick monoculture that cuts down on the variety of plants and birdlife in the marsh …
— James Gorman
2: a culture dominated by a single element : a prevailing culture marked by homogeneity

From some random mushroom website..
http://www.mushroomthejournal.com/greatlakesdata/Terms/monoc97.html#axeni99

Can you upload a pic of this textbook your referring to?

Seems as tho monoculture could refer to a single organism.
And 2 strains are 2 different organism. Which could appear isolated on a plate, even from a clone.

And yes starting with 2 spore is probably the easiest way to creat a monoculture. Idk how else you could even do it but I'm sure they do.


It would be crazy to find out if enigma is an just that, a single organism, or does still contain more genetic material beyond 1 strain. It seems to be pretty stable.

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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27526563 - 11/01/21 03:51 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

we done fucked up pic of the day.



Heres some mex-a on agar. It's a t1 from a spore syringe germination from 2 plates. There was only one perfect circle germination on each plate and I thought the spores may have been so diluted I got miraculous monocultures so to prevent any trouble I put 2 plates together. Only the 2 mother plates from a lot of inocs had any germination and just the super small perfect circles. I'm sure it was stupid but I like to do dumb shit sue me.


--------------------
- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

Marijuanaut escapes earth to cultivate - Grow-room is church temple of the new stoner breed

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: junk_f00d] * 1
    #27526568 - 11/01/21 03:56 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

They don't need to because there is no special meaning for it when applied to mycology. Have any of you bothered to read any texts on mycology? I mean, if you had this wouldn't be such an issue.

Monoculture is a term without special meaning aside from it's common agricultural usage, the only special usage I'm aware of is the incorrect use of the term seen on these boards.

An isolate is how I described it, if you doubt it I suggest reading more about mycology, single sector growth is irrelevant as each "secror" is comprised of many thousands of individual hyphae which have undergone anastomosis which preclude the possibility that they will ever be a single strain.

This is the only pic that I have to share, found on my way to coffee this morning.
Can't remember if I shared already:


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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: QM33]
    #27526569 - 11/01/21 03:59 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

QM33 said:
That doesn't have isolate or mono culture in it..?


monoculture noun
.

Marion Webster
mono·cul·ture | \ ˈmä-nə-ˌkəl-chər  \
Definition of monoculture
1a: the cultivation or growth of a single crop or organism especially on agricultural or forest land
b: a crop or a population of a single kind of organism grown on land in monoculture
c: growth consisting of a single crop, plant, or organism
The plant forms a thick monoculture that cuts down on the variety of plants and birdlife in the marsh …
— James Gorman
2: a culture dominated by a single element : a prevailing culture marked by homogeneity

From some random mushroom website..
http://www.mushroomthejournal.com/greatlakesdata/Terms/monoc97.html#axeni99

Can you upload a pic of this textbook your referring to?

Seems as tho monoculture could refer to a single organism.
And 2 strains are 2 different organism. Which could appear isolated on a plate, even from a clone.

And yes starting with 2 spore is probably the easiest way to creat a monoculture. Idk how else you could even do it but I'm sure they do.


It would be crazy to find out if enigma is an just that, a single organism, or does still contain more genetic material beyond 1 strain. It seems to be pretty stable.



yeah so like you're implying i believe, this definition is ambiguous imo and depends on how we're defining a 'single crop'.  but def'n #2 is closer to how we use it. like say we're growing some monsanto GMO corn with ID#57, is a field with both ID#57 corn and 'wild' corn a monoculture because they're both corn? i'd think not

of course we have our own terms and lingo, so i don't really care so much what some book says as long as shroomerites know what I'm talking about... but at any rate my question was not semantically motivated lol

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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27526578 - 11/01/21 04:06 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
They don't need to because there is no special meaning for it when applied to mycology. Have any of you bothered to read any texts on mycology? I mean, if you had this wouldn't be such an issue.

Monoculture is a term without special meaning aside from it's common agricultural usage, the only special usage I'm aware of is the incorrect use of the term seen on these boards.

An isolate is how I described it, if you doubt it I suggest reading more about mycology, single sector growth is irrelevant as each "secror" is comprised of many thousands of individual hyphae which have undergone anastomosis which preclude the possibility that they will ever be a single strain.

This is the only pic that I have to share, found on my way to coffee this morning.
Can't remember if I shared already:





Lol get off your high horse p9. Language is democratic, if shroomerites use the term 'monoculture' differently, like to refer to an isolate, than so be it. Consider it slang if you must. Gatekeeping shroomery lingo as if only textbooks are valid sources of definitions is silly.

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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: junk_f00d] * 3
    #27526580 - 11/01/21 04:10 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I dont have a high horse, yall are super sensitive. I'm not the gate keeper of anything, I'm regurgitating info freely found anywhere, I'm not the source. You guys posted in a free and open forum, I responded with accurate information, if you don't like it you can cry about it, your tears will not change that reality.

If you guys don't want accurate information I suggest that you stop asking for it.

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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day [Re: junk_f00d]
    #27526581 - 11/01/21 04:10 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Why is no one having fun?

I specifically requested it.


--------------------
- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

Marijuanaut escapes earth to cultivate - Grow-room is church temple of the new stoner breed

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