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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Growth Inhibitory Compound Discussion (BLIS-Chitinase) * 8
    #27525216 - 10/31/21 10:37 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Growth Inhibitory Compound Discussion (BLIS-Chitinase)





Chitinases

Quote:

As chitin is a component of the cell walls of fungi and exoskeletal elements of some animals (including mollusks and arthropods), chitinases are generally found in organisms that either need to reshape their own chitin or dissolve and digest the chitin of fungi or animals. Chitinivorous organisms include many bacteria(Aeromonads, Bacillus, Vibrio, among others), which may be pathogenic or detritivorous. They attack living arthropods, zooplankton or fungi or they may degrade the remains of these organisms




Quote:

Chitinases have the ability of chitin digestion that constitutes a main compound of the cell wall in many of the phytopathogens such as fungi.




Characterization of a chitinase with antifungal activity


Bacteriocins

Quote:

Bacteria produce and excrete a versatile and dynamic suit of compounds to defend against microbial competitors and mediate local population dynamics. These include a wide range of broad-spectrum non-ribosomally synthesized antibiotics, lytic enzymes, metabolic by-products, proteinaceous exotoxins, and ribosomally produced antimicrobial peptides (bacteriocins). Most bacteria produce at least one bacteriocin




Bacteriocins from the rhizosphere microbiome



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6963780/

It's notable that many of the infected cultures  did not exhibit any morphological traits and where white, some possesed rings, others fluffy mycelium with exudates. With all white-colored colonies having villous texture, these white cultures were less virulent and lacked the presence of conidia. So even under the scope we wouldn't likely be able to identify.

This mentions one mentions inhibitory zones:

"There was no zone of inhibition, found in this interaction."

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Isolation-and-identification-of-Mycogone-causing-in-Kouser-Shah/2c5b2af21be4a7c1f98ea282998646638af280db#paper-header

This seems like an odd mention. I'd like to find out more about culture morphology that includes zones of inhibition.

"Chitinases of pathogenic fungi not only play vital roles in spore germination, septum formation, cell division, and morphogenesis, but the enzymes are also important in the host interaction . In addition to degradation of the host fungal cell wall, chitinases also inhibit hyphae growth and bud tube elongation.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2020.596719/full

I am convinced that scalloped edges are morphological identifiers for some inhibitory substance like chitinases or BLIS (bacteriocin-like inhibitory substances), I refuse to believe that inhibitory zones are healthy growth patterns.




The left hand plate was used to produce the following:




Front and back of the same plate . These plates are heavily scalloped, floccose and thicken toward the margin which prevents light from passing through the culture.



Inhibitory zones are used to test the strength of both antibiotics and fungicides:

Antifungal properties of Chitinases:



https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Antifungal-Activity-of-Chitinases-against-Various-Fungi-The-fungi-used-are-as-follows_fig4_7145317

Considering that Mycogone, Aspergillus,  Trichoderma, Bacteria, etc, can produce Chitinases; all bacteria can produce at least one form of bacteriocin. It seems reasonable to suspect that these compounds will be found on our plates and certainly found in grain processed for spawn production, furthermore it seems reasonable to suspect that these compounds if present would effect morphology by preventing growth of the host organism where these products are found.

I believe that many of the positive visual identifiers for generally stressed grain masters may be the result of these compounds, or similar compounds; live vegetative bacteria may not be present but their byproducts may very well be. Chitinases, BLIS, or some similar mechanism seems reasonable, it also appears to be reasonable to state that  symptom severity will reflect stage of infection, virulence etc.


Edited by Stipe-n Cap (12/24/22 12:46 PM)


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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Myco Parasites [Re: rockyfungus]
    #27525251 - 10/31/21 11:26 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)



Mycogone Wet Bubble Disease:







Cobweb: Please note I have confused cobweb with pin molds in the past. Real cobweb can look nearly the same as cubensis mycelium.















Some pic dumps


--------------------
- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

Marijuanaut escapes earth to cultivate - Grow-room is church temple of the new stoner breed


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Invisiblemultifractal
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Re: Myco Parasites [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27525325 - 10/31/21 12:48 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Just for the record, the picture of the culture of mine you posted here cleaned up to normal looking growths and fruited very well on bulk substrate. As I've said elsewhere, I believe this morphology to sometimes occur due to somewhat genetically distinct mycelial colonies not blending well with each other. Those areas you call "inhibitory zones" actually had mycelium growing on them but just very sparse and thin mycelium. The plates pinned nicely as well over time. So I'm not sure if you should use that photo as an example to this argument. It's very possible that similar growth patterns could at time be indicative of some sort of contamination but I'm quite sure that was not the case here based on how the culture behaved like a totally clean culture while fruiting.

This plate is a child of those:


I see the pattern not infrequently on germination plates. You can see it here on the right:



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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Myco Parasites [Re: sandman420]
    #27531682 - 11/05/21 05:44 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Nice find, sandman.

Here is an interesting photo posted on the shroomery discord server, the cultivator claims that it had been damaged by uv irradiation:



This occurred after 63mJ of UV-C.

Just an interesting anecdote.

I'll go over that info tomorrow, I just gave it a quick scan.


Edited by Stipe-n Cap (11/05/21 06:03 PM)


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Offlinerockyfungus
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Re: Myco Parasites [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
    #27559946 - 11/27/21 07:24 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)



Not sure if mycovirus. Hispanica I keep germing and getting a feathery appearance with zones of clearing as it grows. It never forms a nice round colony just feathers.


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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Myco Parasites [Re: rockyfungus]
    #27560350 - 11/28/21 06:09 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not familiar with that species on agar but here is a pic from workman. Looks like it may be normal for it to make weak feathery mycelium.



--------------------
- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

Marijuanaut escapes earth to cultivate - Grow-room is church temple of the new stoner breed


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OfflinexVadisx
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Re: Myco Parasites [Re: QM33]
    #27580963 - 12/14/21 09:52 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

I've been dealing with a series of fucked over the past few days that I suspect is some real nasty nasty. I've posted in a few places but sandman asked me to pop this over here so here are some quotes:

Quote:

xVadisx said:
It was near a few bags that looked like this:


Several rosecomb mushrooms. A few with early broken veils, rosecomb heads, and dark ripped-looking (but not split) stipes. Lots of dry-bubble-looking/yellow/blobby stuff. I saw it in ziplocks and from a cake of the same variety. I've thrown away the worst in fear.

I've isolated everything else outside the grow area and am letting things go and debating harvesting/using. I probably will go ahead and let them grow and harvest at least a first flush...I just don't want to fuck my upcoming grows/plates/work area. I have six PF cakes that I already took some tissue to agar from (a super spikey cake) but am now hesitant to continue with as I don't want to transfer ick.

I despise losing actives, but with so many things coming up that are clean, I want to keep them clean and am not that attached. I still don't want to waste unnecessarily. I have a shoebox and two ziplocks as well that looks much much healthier but were from the same timeframe/CV-batch.

So, the grow room just has jars of oats and plates and has been cleaned. Air filter is running for whatever its worth. Everything else is in a completely other room. I'm not going to mist the cakes any more. They do what they do now. One is doing a pushup.






Quote:

xVadisx said:
Is it okay to dehydrate bacterial fruit at 165F?

Logically, there is a fan... and it will blow hot air at these things moving air around (and I'm mostly curious if this air will then bring clouds of invisible-to-the-naked-eye-fuckedness to my home, a scientific term).

I haven't flipped the switch yet. I hate tossing actives.






If it is as nasty as I think I'm paranoid about spores getting everywhere, carried on me, etc. Gah.


--------------------
Thanks to everyone for sharing what they know :smile:. 165F for 24hrs.

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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Myco Parasites [Re: sandman420]
    #27670318 - 02/23/22 11:13 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Now I present to you exhibit Q

I believe this sandbag to be infected with a mycovirus or mycoparasite.

This is just an example of my last run of several sandbags, every bag was identical to this pretty much.

The culture was a plate pin clone culture that looked, not to toot my own horn but it looked way better than anything you'll ever grow in your life sucka :crazy2: :rocket: :evil:...

It's natalensis.

The plates were so clean.

LC clean.

Grain was clean but ~80% of the bags stalled.

The grains that finished looked fine, they all looked fine but they would stall after shaking. No stank. No bahturia even on the stalled ones.

So i spawned my few sandbags with the good grain and they colonized mostly ok. Took a long fucking time to pin.

Heres what we gots homey...

Mostly less than 1" tall. NO SPORES. Very shitty. The plate clone was a huge spaghetti monster and sporulated LIKE CRAZY on the plate

Now you may say just genetics but fuck no man. This same shit has been happening to everything all kinds of cultures of cubensis too, getting worse every month till now I think it's hit max fucky.

I know that mycovirus (and probably mycoparasite too) effect the sporulation. I have been getting so many first flush no spores on so many projects.



So I know I have a huge fucking problem. I don't know how far it goes is the problem. I think everything in my culture storage is carrying this. I think all of my spores carry this.

I am shutting down my room, selling out, moving, ordering fresh spores from a virgin monk in Indonesia, and starting fresh. It's the only way to be sure.


--------------------
- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

Marijuanaut escapes earth to cultivate - Grow-room is church temple of the new stoner breed


Edited by sandman420 (02/23/22 03:18 PM)


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OfflineDendrocopos
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Registered: 11/02/21
Posts: 511
Loc: Chained in RR's cellar
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Myco Parasites [Re: rockyfungus]
    #27675408 - 02/27/22 11:50 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Repost from agar envy thread. Sorry if that is not allowed. My cultures have all started to look kind off funky ever since i bough some maz spores. I get crazy rosecomb/mutants on everything i grow. Along weird mycogone like blobs of stem tissue oozing metabolites. Mr. Sandman told me i most likelly have some sort of mycovirus/mycoparasite based on my plates. Could someone give me a second opinnion before i toss all my shit ? Or, how does one get rid of something like that without tossing everything ?

Looks good, but rhyzomorphs weirdly lift into the air like they are escaping from something.



weirdly ununiform growht



3D/fuzzy look. Looks like bacterial bubbling.



?clean plate? i am so paranoid, i don't know at this point



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InvisibleGandalfTheWhite
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Registered: 05/02/21
Posts: 84
Re: Myco Parasites [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28006984 - 10/19/22 07:57 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Saw that there was a couple posts in General Disc. in regards to this subject, but then noticed this thread was created. Apologies for resurecting an older thread.

Dealing with something quite similar with my APE culture. Swabbed a few plates, put some cotton fibers on the plate, snapped the tip off on a couple dishes and nothing looks right.

This is one of the T1's from the germ plates that I made early on. As you can see the scalloping and disorganized growth is obvious. Even the germ plates are starting to go south with discoloration and some bruising of the myc.



Think this culture is going to be a wash and will have to start over with another source


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