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 veggie
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 More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms 
#27515518 - 10/23/21 06:54 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms
October 22, 2021 - Psychedelic Science Review
The complexity of nature as it relates to psychedelic drug research has been a frequent topic of Psychedelic Science Review articles. In the past, we have published articles on the variability of compounds in magic mushrooms as well as how environmental variables such as light and the type of growing medium influence the presence and amount of certain compounds (e.g., psilocybin derivatives) in the mushroom fruiting bodies. Other articles have delved into the mysteries surrounding the chemicals in magic mushroom spores and why spores have little to do with potency.
On October 16th, 2021 the natural psychedelic drug development company Filament Health shared some new mushroom composition data on Twitter. They measured the levels of psilocybin and psilocin in 20 individual Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms (strain “Blue Meanie”). The mushrooms were cultivated from a monoculture, analyzed at the same stage of maturity, and each specimen weighed about 0.5 grams. The data for each mushroom sample is shown in the table below, which is taken from Filament’s tweet. Overall, the company stated that they
"...found psilocybin strength variability of over 5x in the same flush."
Further, they said,
"For natural psilocybin to be a therapeutic option, reducing variation via standardization is the only option."
Filament said in the comments section of the tweet that these data are “part of a larger study that was designed to determine variability between mushroom fruiting bodies.” Psychedelic Science Review reached out to Filament’s Research and Development Director Ryan Moss for more information on this larger mushroom composition study. Mr. Moss said the research includes “studying the differences in metabolite content of various anatomical structures of the fungus (mycelium, sclerotia, stalks, caps, etc.). In the broader scope, the study will include comparisons of the metabolite content between individual mushroom fruiting bodies, stages of maturity, flushes, species, and varieties.”
Mr. Moss added the following regarding the compounds they are finding and studying, “While the small set of data that we shared via Twitter displays psilocybin and psilocin, we have isolated and tested for multiple compounds of interest in the mushroom including the tryptamine alkaloids: baeocystin, norbaeocystin, norpsilocin, aeruginascin, 4-HO-TMT, 4-hydroxytryptamine. The beta-carbolines: harmine, harmane, norharmane, harmol.”
Psychedelic Science Review frequently writes articles about the entourage effect, particularly when it comes to magic mushrooms. Mr. Moss made it clear that Filament is working to unearth more details surrounding this phenomenon. “Since psilocybin-containing mushrooms have traditionally been consumed in their raw, desiccated, whole-fruiting-body form, we think it is important to understand what people have been consuming historically, and the variability associated with that. With this information, we hope to be able to put the traditional-use of these substances into context, as well as explore the purported ‘entourage effect’ and how that can be applied to the therapeutic application of these natural products.”
Filament Health occupies an interesting space in psychedelic research right now. Their focus centers on discovering, extracting, and purifying magic mushroom compounds as opposed to synthesizing them or developing new derivatives of psychoactive compounds. These are some of the essential first steps towards fully understanding the ‘magic’ of magic mushrooms. Without first determining the chemical composition, researchers remain blind to what compounds are responsible for the biological properties, their mechanism of action, and their relative contributions to the observed effects.
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 Failboat
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 Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: veggie]
#27515550 - 10/23/21 07:32 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fuck yes, extract that shit and them put it in a pill baby! You're gonna need some fucking pharmaceutical feedstock to get that medley
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Dr. Funtime
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: veggie]
#27515572 - 10/23/21 07:52 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Am I reading this right? A single flush from the same cake can have a variation of 5x potency from mushroom to mushroom? That is nuts.
I guess from now on I need to chop them up into bits and mix well to standardize my trips.
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kanemush
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Dr. Funtime]
#27515577 - 10/23/21 07:55 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr. Funtime said:
Am I reading this right? A single flush from the same cake can have a variation of 5x potency from mushroom to mushroom? That is nuts.
I guess from now on I need to chop them up into bits and mix well to standardize my trips.
thats why making pills is best it spreads the wealth 
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Failboat
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: kanemush]
#27515584 - 10/23/21 08:00 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I want 30mg tablets... mushroom rolls, shaped like little mushrooms...
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kanemush
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Failboat]
#27515585 - 10/23/21 08:02 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said:
I want 30mg tablets... mushroom rolls, shaped like little mushrooms...
easy just use a pill press you can make whatever you want for the design
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Failboat
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: kanemush]
#27515686 - 10/23/21 09:59 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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No no no, 30mg psilocybin, not mushroom. To produce an extract you gotta do some modestly in-depth work to produce powder to use for tablets. Now the interesting point highlighted here is that certain blends could contain different levels of these alkaloids n such so mix n match compound pharmacy work kind of comes into play.
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openmind
curious
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: veggie]
#27516123 - 10/24/21 10:43 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
veggie said:
Mr. Moss added the following regarding the compounds they are finding and studying, “While the small set of data that we shared via Twitter displays psilocybin and psilocin, we have isolated and tested for multiple compounds of interest in the mushroom including the tryptamine alkaloids: baeocystin, norbaeocystin, norpsilocin, aeruginascin, 4-HO-TMT, 4-hydroxytryptamine. The beta-carbolines: harmine, harmane, norharmane, harmol.”
That's what I thought this was going to be about mostly, looking at the spectrum/content of the different active components in mushrooms....
It's common knowledge that the psilocybin and psilocin content can be quite variable from species to species and from batch to batch/flush to flush. I want to know about those other alkaloids!
So are they just not "sharing" the information/results they have about all the other alkaloids? I am way more interested in seeing that than psilocybin/psilocin content, which we already know about.
Does anyone know where that data/info can be found?
-OM
.
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Dr. Funtime
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Failboat]
#27516164 - 10/24/21 11:28 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said:
I want 30mg tablets... mushroom rolls, shaped like little mushrooms...
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Holybullshit
Stranger
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Failboat]
#27517214 - 10/25/21 09:08 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Extracting isn't really necessary...I mean if you are looking for standardization for distribution, sure, but otherwise just get your mushrooms cracker dry, powder them, mix well. It won't be perfect but it'll be close enough...from there just encapsulate or mix very well with chocolate bark and pour into molds, simple math to know the dose in each chocolate.
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤
Registered: 04/09/20
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Holybullshit]
#27517456 - 10/25/21 12:48 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Crazy shiz mang
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Failboat
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Holybullshit]
#27518519 - 10/26/21 08:32 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Holybullshit said:
Extracting isn't really necessary...I mean if you are looking for standardization for distribution, sure, but otherwise just get your mushrooms cracker dry, powder them, mix well. It won't be perfect but it'll be close enough...from there just encapsulate or mix very well with chocolate bark and pour into molds, simple math to know the dose in each chocolate.
I'm pretty familiar with simple gastronomy and am more than comfortable with making food, but I want pills. There are many reasons, but standardization is obviously a pretty important factor, and I place bioavailability as a high priority.
If 30mg psilo is the standard, and different batches of extract contain differerent alkaloid content then the entourage chems will be dosed depending on the extract content ratio. Alternatively should each alkaloid be isolated then you really do get the capacity for full on compound medicine.
Can't achieve exact detailed dosing without extracts.
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QM33
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Failboat]
#27518522 - 10/26/21 08:36 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Or synthetics....
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Failboat
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: QM33] 1
#27518593 - 10/26/21 09:37 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Seems like given such a wide array of chemicals it may prove costly to synth all that, maybe I'm wrong. Meanwhile industrialized mush cult could be very cheap given an abundance of labor and or technology.
I suppose there's a market for both at a certain point nearly 8billion people right? You can fairly easily set up mush farms using local materials just about anywhere people are well established.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Dr. Funtime] 1
#27518736 - 10/26/21 11:33 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr. Funtime said:
Am I reading this right? A single flush from the same cake can have a variation of 5x potency from mushroom to mushroom? That is nuts.
I guess from now on I need to chop them up into bits and mix well to standardize my trips.
This is something the cultivation community has known for over a decade. That is why we tell people if they want consistent potency they need to clone or isolate for it.
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Holybullshit
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Failboat]
#27518783 - 10/26/21 12:06 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just seems like a lot of work for personal consumption.
Oral absorption rates/bio-availability isn't even consistent each time you dose. It can change depending on the person, what they've been eating, time of day, their health, etc.
And the effects aren't necessarily consistent, even with similar plasma levels/AUC, and both can vary from person to person, or day to day, even with the same oral dose.
If you want pills you can put the powder into capsules...and the chocolate might slow down absorption a little, but it shouldn't lower bio-availability that much if at all.
And honestly I think any entourage effect is being greatly overestimated...the entourage alkaloids are only present in extremely small amounts, are unstable(may breakdown during drying/extraction), and have poor bio-availability and likely don't survive past FPM.
I get what you are saying...and like I said, if creating a product for medical/pharma use/distribution sure, but there's not a lot of advantages for personal consumption...and you are going to have a helluva a lot of trouble isolating alkaloids at home.
The only way to truly get the precision you seem to be talking about is with IV/IM and calibrating the dose for each person.
Sure, it'd be a great off the shelf product, but I don't see any substantial motivation to attempt it at home.
Edited by Holybullshit (10/26/21 12:17 PM)
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Failboat
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Holybullshit]
#27518811 - 10/26/21 12:30 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I wasn't preposing the average cultivation hobbyist take on the endeavor.
You can't win a marathon without practice and you'll never complete one without putting on the miles.
Some species, like Natalensis, seem to more abundant in said entourage. I see potential.
Edited by Failboat (10/26/21 12:31 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend
Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Failboat]
#27518861 - 10/26/21 01:11 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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One good thing is that testing is fast becoming more accessible to the hobbiest level cultivator. HPLC testing for psilo is becoming a thing as labs come around to serve the medical community but, even simple at home kits are even coming and being used even now. They will be able to be purchased for an affordable price and give people a pretty good idea where the potency sits. Exciting times.
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QM33
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27518906 - 10/26/21 01:42 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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And with that said, im sure just like cannabis, people will breed the shit out of it for potency. I mean since the 60s your average weed has probably tripled in potency, and weed has been bred for thousands of years, only with technology have we been able to grow so quickly relatively. And i more appripriate means of testing is going to lead to some crazy shit.
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Failboat
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Re: More Evidence of the Chemical Compound Variability in Magic Mushrooms [Re: QM33]
#27518913 - 10/26/21 01:45 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah I was all like oh boy a reagent, but it's clearly useful so I guess I kinda need em  Definitely all rather engaging. 
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