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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27515310 - 10/23/21 03:44 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes unicorn from meyers. No propane.
Explain to me this exspansion?
If there were gusts of cool wind or say, a intake fan, blowing direcrly on your aluminum, which doesnt conduct or hold heat nearly at all, this could creat a cold spot on the aluminuk, which isnt holding heat, which would transfer directly to the plastic thats laying on the other side, which would transfer directly into the moisture exsposed to that surface, causong a rapid cooling in that specific area that i dont think would be balanced out by the thermal mass throughout the rest of the unit.
Like i said im still grasping that phsyics shit.
But help me understand the expantion your talking about. Cause didnt you just say underpressure the bags wont expand at all?
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,658
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27515324 - 10/23/21 03:51 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've said about as much as can be said.
You have a giant, hot, metal vessel. The density of the metal, water, grain will hold onto and heat for a long time despite having a windy day with a fan blowing on it.
I'm not sure if I'm being trolled at this point, it's pretty simple to understand. It's fucking hot. 60f is nothing, it's not cold, it's barely chilly.
If you have trapped gasses under pressure like, let's say a balloon...and then you rapidly release the opening of the balloon the gas inside of the balloon will rapidly expand into the environment.
So if your unit hasn't been purged of trapped air (gas) and you pressurize the vessel, when you flip the vent open any trapped gas will expand and try to escape your bags which will rip a hole in the bag.
If you use a heat source that is too hot it will cause the metal walls of you unit to melt the plastic bags.
60 deg isn't considered rapid cooling. Spraying your unit with a hose, dumping snow on it, running it outside during winter months....if you rapidly cool your vessel it will likely warp.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,999
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27515332 - 10/23/21 03:58 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Its a difference in pressure not heat. The bags dont pop when u unload em hot into a cool room
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27515337 - 10/23/21 04:01 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Your telling me my bags popped because the pressure got to high basically. And ive had this problem in prestos on electric so.... and my prestos never got past 20. Its because the temperature your saying?
"" So if your unit hasn't been purged of trapped air (gas) and you pressurize the vessel, when you flip the vent open any trapped gas will expand and try to escape your bags which will rip a hole in the bag.
Why would you flip the vent open? And i always purge, did 20+ minutes the last few runs.
And ted i understand that but with a drop in temp you will get a drop in pressure, no? And when you unload them into a cool room its not under any pressure.
The link i posted, as far as i can indersstand at this point made it seem as tho when steam rapidly drops in pressure, when pressuized, it explodes. Sandman? You even chimed in at one point and agreed that sandman had a good point and that you couldnt explain it that well, ted...
I think this is more likely than the bags melting at what, 275F?
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,999
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27515352 - 10/23/21 04:17 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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No not at all. Its because the pressure dropped too fast
not purging wont pop bags it will keep the unit from reaching proper temps
lots of people flip the vent open because it says to in the user manual once the unit reaches pressure. obviously these arent instructions for bags of spawn
and yes, thats why people pop bags in prestos. because they cool too quickly and the pressure drops too fast
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
Edited by TedsDead (10/23/21 04:25 PM)
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#27515368 - 10/23/21 04:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Okay. So my means of fix8ng this problem, like i said, will be to more slowly cool my sterilizer to prevent that pressure drop from happening too quickly.
Yes, becauze steam under pressure is hotter, not air.
And ya, from what i understand because we vent for so long we dont need to relieve thay first buildup.
So ted have you had your AA get to 25ishPSI and not pop bags? Ive only had mine for a couple weeks and im wondering how far i can push it. I mean why not 20psi the whole run? Or 22?
&&&* Side thought, also pretty sure bug autoclaves are insulated, and steel, so if you want to talk about thermal mass, thats thermal mass.
Edited by QM33 (10/23/21 04:36 PM)
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27515374 - 10/23/21 04:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Did you answer if you're squeezing the air out of all the bags well yet? I might have missed your answer.
Less air in the bags = less air to expand // pop.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,658
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27515377 - 10/23/21 04:37 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I always run at 20psi, the reason why my 75x drops to 17 is because it fluctuates.
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: filthyknees]
#27515378 - 10/23/21 04:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I do, not as hardcore and thuroughly as i used to. But i dont seal or block the filter either.
P9 doesnt in his videos.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,999
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: QM33]
#27515388 - 10/23/21 04:44 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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ugh, ya. mine actually fluctuates a little more than 3 psi. it might have something to do with the way I installed the thermostat when I replaced it tho. I couldn't get it to fit in quite the same way as the old one
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,658
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#27515397 - 10/23/21 04:50 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ah shitty, that would really bother me to no end.
I even keep my presto bang on 20psi, the same with my 1915x, my cadco keeps it steady af.

15psi is a minimum requirement.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,999
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27515401 - 10/23/21 04:52 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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it does bother me. I have to let it get much higher than I want or else it will drop below 15psi. its only on the one unit which I've replaced all of the parts on except the heating element so it must be user error
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,658
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#27515405 - 10/23/21 04:55 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ah gotcha, if it wasn't for shit like that teaching me patience...
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0ptiquest
Stranger


Registered: 07/05/20
Posts: 509
Last seen: 3 days, 1 hour
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead]
#27515612 - 10/23/21 08:25 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said:
Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said:
Quote:
0ptiquest said: Hello there quirk, whats your hot soak wheat prep? Soak with boiled water for 6 hours? Always used millet but want to try an easy wheat prep. thanks
6 hours might be a bit long, but it does take a while. Worst case you air it out a bit.
with wheat I turn my burner on high for 45 min, cut heat and soak for another 45 min then drain. the water should be hot but not boiling
Thanks for the answers... i will try both preps tomorrow
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
Posts: 2,212
Last seen: 14 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 0ptiquest]
#27515646 - 10/23/21 09:13 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dove into the topic of popped pre-sealed bags and made a thread, I kept a list of what was learned in the initial post.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26282176/fpart/1/vc/1
The one that sometimes alludes people was this one:
3) Avoid bleeding steam from the PC after it has reached pressure. In particular, at the end of your cycle, when the bags though-out are at temp, boiling is a very real possibility and can pop. One must constantly lower the heat source to maintain a steady pressure, so it is easy to forget and have the PC bleed steam... causing a pop.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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Failboat
Fuck Up
Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
Last seen: 6 days, 15 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 0ptiquest]
#27515672 - 10/23/21 09:43 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
0ptiquest said:
Quote:
TedsDead said:
Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said:
Quote:
0ptiquest said: Hello there quirk, whats your hot soak wheat prep? Soak with boiled water for 6 hours? Always used millet but want to try an easy wheat prep. thanks
6 hours might be a bit long, but it does take a while. Worst case you air it out a bit.
with wheat I turn my burner on high for 45 min, cut heat and soak for another 45 min then drain. the water should be hot but not boiling
Thanks for the answers... i will try both preps tomorrow 
The thing about the hot soak is it does depend on how much grain is in the bucket, I'd estimate 20lb each. More grain leaves less space for water. My batch today soaked for like 3hr and change, loaded it hot n moist.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,999
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tedoro]
#27515690 - 10/23/21 10:04 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tedoro said: I dove into the topic of popped pre-sealed bags and made a thread, I kept a list of what was learned in the initial post.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26282176/fpart/1/vc/1
The one that sometimes alludes people was this one:
3) Avoid bleeding steam from the PC after it has reached pressure. In particular, at the end of your cycle, when the bags though-out are at temp, boiling is a very real possibility and can pop. One must constantly lower the heat source to maintain a steady pressure, so it is easy to forget and have the PC bleed steam... causing a pop.
that was a good thread indeed
Hello there quirk, whats your hot soak wheat prep? Soak with boiled water for 6 hours? Always used millet but want to try an easy wheat prep. thanks
6 hours might be a bit long, but it does take a while. Worst case you air it out a bit.
with wheat I turn my burner on high for 45 min, cut heat and soak for another 45 min then drain. the water should be hot but not boiling
Thanks for the answers... i will try both preps tomorrow 
The thing about the hot soak is it does depend on how much grain is in the bucket, I'd estimate 20lb each. More grain leaves less space for water. My batch today soaked for like 3hr and change, loaded it hot n moist.
so the only thing that changes is how long to heat the water for depending on the amount used per the amount of grain. thats my tek for a 50# bag but I made 10 jars the other day and maybe heated for 20 min. I just stick my finger in to gauge temp but Ill use a thermometer next time and get a reading. 45 min soak after remains the same for any amnt of grain Im prepping
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
Edited by TedsDead (10/23/21 10:08 PM)
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TedsDead] 1
#27517350 - 10/25/21 11:33 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Random shout out to anyone in the NJ area on Faeboo marketplace there's pallets of ffus for sale for like 50-100 bucks that came out of a hospital. Use your own discression because they're used but figured I'd mention here, might be cool to grab six and have a wall of flow for fraction of the retail price. Just search ffu.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: filthyknees]
#27517351 - 10/25/21 11:34 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Be careful with industrial equipment power requirements, always check the voltage on the info tag. Lots of it uses 3 phase power or non standard voltages.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,999
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420] 1
#27517508 - 10/25/21 01:30 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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you can use a charge controlloer to step up the voltage. mine is wired for 270v. withought the charge controller youll burn out the fan
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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