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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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North American A.muscaria group (*breaking news*) * 1
    #27494287 - 10/06/21 03:19 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Recent molecular work by Tulloss and Geml has not shown a great enough difference in the DNA of A. chrysoblema (eastern white form), A. muscaria subsp. flavivolvata (western, red form), and A. muscaria var. guessowii (eastern, orange-yellow form), to consider them distinct biological entities at species level.

In other words, they are all synonyms; with A. chrysoblema taking precedence because it is the earliest valid name of the three ‘forms’ at species level we have available to use. A. amerimuscaria Tulloss, and A. muscaria var. alba Peck, are also obsolete synonyms.


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InvisibleChangeling66
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Re: North American A.muscaria group (*breaking news*) [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27494340 - 10/06/21 05:17 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

There's a section of woods where I walk. It's A.muscaria mayhem. The whites are just getting done and the yellow/orange are just popping up. It's a beautiful place
Always glad to lean something new.


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It's not what I know that scares me. It's what I don't know, that I don't know, that scares me.


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: North American A.muscaria group (*breaking news*) [Re: Changeling66]
    #27494489 - 10/06/21 08:52 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

:crankeyclaus:


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"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: North American A.muscaria group (*breaking news*) [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #27494740 - 10/06/21 12:38 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Before anybody gets too worked up over this, remember that we should always wait awhile after stuff like this get published to see if it gets accepted by the professional community. There are lots of reasons why various papers end up being mostly ignored or rejected. And a lot more of this stuff gets ignored or rejected than most people realize.

If we went around relabeling and reorganizing the collections in the herbarium every time some paper like this gets published we would have little time for much of anything else.

If this is going to become the new version of looking at these mushrooms, we'll probably be seeing the effects in a couple years. Until then, go on using the names we've all been using until it becomes clear that  things have really changed.

In the words of the great Douglas Adams, DON'T PANIC.


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Happy mushrooming!


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: North American A.muscaria group (*breaking news*) [Re: ToxicMan]
    #27494767 - 10/06/21 12:56 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

:unimpressed:
Too late my day is ruined


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: North American A.muscaria group (*breaking news*) [Re: ToxicMan]
    #27494795 - 10/06/21 01:12 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ToxicMan said:
If this is going to become the new version of looking at these mushrooms, we'll probably be seeing the effects in a couple years.



I don't think so, name changes happen now more than ever, but also get absorbed faster than ever by the mycological community. We've seen it with Melzer paper where almost overnight whole Psathyrellaceae family got new names and now everyone refers to old mushrooms by new names. And last month or so Collybiopsis was resurrected and all of the sudden saying Marasmiellus is so yesterday.

Whatever the case may be, this is not a call to use any of the new names, or prefer one name over the other, just an information from the front lines. Use whatever name you wish, if the name is valid in the eyes of icn, then it is alright to use it.


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OfflineJawn849
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Re: North American A.muscaria group (*breaking news*) [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27495039 - 10/06/21 03:51 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

how much of a difference is a "great enough difference in the DNA...to consider them distinct biological entities at species level" ? Also, are they using the ITS or a different region?


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: North American A.muscaria group (*breaking news*) [Re: Jawn849]
    #27495065 - 10/06/21 04:16 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jawn849 said:
how much of a difference is a "great enough difference in the DNA...to consider them distinct biological entities at species level" ? Also, are they using the ITS or a different region?



In any serious research of this kind use of multiple loci (its1, its2, lsu...) and their indel matrices is essential to achieve the best phylogenetic resolution required to provide meaningful relationships among species.


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OfflineJawn849
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Re: North American A.muscaria group (*breaking news*) [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27495814 - 10/07/21 09:21 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

well yes. But how different is different enough to be a different species?


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