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jeft
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Registered: 08/14/20
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Purchase spores with better genetics
#27470406 - 09/16/21 09:46 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I’ve read that you should use agar to grow mycelium and keep separating the best portions to end up with better genetics. I currently purchase spores in a syringe from spore works. Is there a way to purchase spores that already have the better genetics? If not, what is it about cultivating mycelium at home that makes it superior to mycelium grown elsewhere and shipped?
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bigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Purchase spores with better genetics [Re: jeft]
#27470421 - 09/16/21 10:01 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Per forum rules you shouldn't be name dropping the vendors. But as far as growing better genetics there is no way to know what you're doing on agar without actually fruiting them to isolate desirable traits. A lot of people talk about isolating or sectoring mycelium on agar but it is fairly useless because you don't know what traits you're isolating without growing them all the way.
The best practice would be to just germinate and clean up your agar, put it to grain, take prints, grow from that print, clone, grow from the clone, collect prints from the clone, grow from the new print, etc. That way you can physically see what genetics you're isolating instead of looking at myc on agar.
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NOT a virgin!
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CreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
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You are mixing up spores and cultures. When someone transfers from agar to agar they're taking an established culture - spores that have already germinated. Whereas, a spore syringe contains spores in water with no nutrients so they don't germinate.
When you start with spores it is very often a crapshoot even if you know a lot about the mushroom the spores came from. Even in a single drop of spore syringe there are many many spores and they all germinate around the same spot. This results in a clusterfuck of genetic material.
In contrast, compare to an agar culture after 5 transfers. You aren't dealing with spores any longer, the spores have already germinated 5 transfers ago. What you are transferring is something a lot more stable and a lot less unpredictable.
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If not, what is it about cultivating mycelium at home that makes it superior to mycelium grown elsewhere and shipped?
Nothing inherently. If you got sent a good culture in the mail, well then as long as it was preserved properly it'd keep being the same kind of culture.
The reason that shipped mycelium is terrible is that they're illegal, so those who really know what they're doing tend not to do that. My guess is the cultivators who will send you active mycelium (and break the law doing so) are not as fastidious about cleanliness and not as good at isolating good-producing strains. That is just my assumption, but you'd have to look at each culture individually to examine its quality.
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DERRAYLD
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Yeh, you shouldn't be naming vendors here. That being said you made a good choice with the one you mentioned.
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Eclipse3130
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Re: Purchase spores with better genetics [Re: DERRAYLD]
#27470475 - 09/16/21 10:26 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes there are vendors that sell live tissue cultures already worked from spores and cloned, consistent well performing genetics. But you have to remember that's illegal so you gotta know the right places to look. Good luck. I always recommend starting from spore yourself as you will need the experience at some point anyway, best to get it over with early.
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"
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bigfootscreepyuncl
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Loc: Gamehenge
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Re: Purchase spores with better genetics [Re: Eclipse3130]
#27470496 - 09/16/21 10:42 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ah, sorry OP. I hadn't had my morning caffeine and I misread your question. I still feel like I gave you good advice but it wasn't what you were asking for so it was basically useless lol.
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I 5318008
NOT a virgin!
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jeft
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Registered: 08/14/20
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Thanks for the feedback. I would love to be able to find a source for sound established genetics. Sorry about the name dropping. I honestly didn’t think it was illegal. My understanding is that psilocybin is the only thing that is illegal and that it doesn’t exist in spores and mycelium. That’s why (those who will remain unnamed) can sell spores. Is this incorrect? I thought that it was only illegal to cultivate the fruiting body containing psilocybin. The rules are ridiculous regardless. But, I suppose we have to jump through hoops for a while longer.
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bigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Purchase spores with better genetics [Re: jeft]
#27470544 - 09/16/21 11:35 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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That is simply a forum rule, nothing illegal about naming names. I didn't mean to get on you about it but some of the mods on here take it seriously. But the reasoning behind it is that people otherwise post pictures of their harvest and say shit like 'hey look what I did with the syringe/print from 'XYZ' vendor even though I'm only supposed to look at it under a microscope'.
It would be nice to be able to buy LC/LI but once you learn agar it is easy to do yourself and is honestly the best part of this hobby IMO.
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I 5318008
NOT a virgin!
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



Registered: 10/06/13
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Re: Purchase spores with better genetics [Re: jeft]
#27470552 - 09/16/21 11:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
jeft said: My understanding is that psilocybin is the only thing that is illegal and that it doesn’t exist in spores and mycelium. That’s why (those who will remain unnamed) can sell spores. Is this incorrect? I thought that it was only illegal to cultivate the fruiting body containing psilocybin. The rules are ridiculous regardless. But, I suppose we have to jump through hoops for a while longer.
Live tissue culture is illegal because it has small levels of the active alkaloids in it. This is why you don't see it being sold on sites like that, on the other hand spores are perfectly legal in select states, they don't contain any alkaloids.
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"
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Mike Hawck
Cognitively Dissonant


Registered: 06/04/21
Posts: 172
Loc: The Local Gas Station
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Re: Purchase spores with better genetics [Re: Eclipse3130]
#27470584 - 09/16/21 12:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I always start from spore syringe to PF jars because that has the most amount of genetic diversity possible, then I just clone the fruits that I like the best. A big part of mycology for me is growing stuff out, seeing what pops up, and working with it. If you played a game that started with every level already beaten, it wouldn't be fun would it?
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jeft
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Re: Purchase spores with better genetics [Re: Mike Hawck] 1
#27470621 - 09/16/21 12:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bigfootscreepyuncl said: That is simply a forum rule, nothing illegal about naming names. I didn't mean to get on you about it but some of the mods on here take it seriously. But the reasoning behind it is that people otherwise post pictures of their harvest and say shit like 'hey look what I did with the syringe/print from 'XYZ' vendor even though I'm only supposed to look at it under a microscope'.
It would be nice to be able to buy LC/LI but once you learn agar it is easy to do yourself and is honestly the best part of this hobby IMO.
Gotcha! I see how that would be an issue. We would be reading through a bunch of shady sales pitches to find info worth talking about.
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Eclipse3130 said:
Live tissue culture is illegal because it has small levels of the active alkaloids in it. This is why you don't see it being sold on sites like that, on the other hand spores are perfectly legal in select states, they don't contain any alkaloids.
That makes sense. Thank you for the clarification.
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Mike Hawck said: I always start from spore syringe to PF jars because that has the most amount of genetic diversity possible, then I just clone the fruits that I like the best. A big part of mycology for me is growing stuff out, seeing what pops up, and working with it. If you played a game that started with every level already beaten, it wouldn't be fun would it?
Working with agar and experimenting definitely looks like fun. I have some physical limitations that keep me from working with it myself. Otherwise, I'd be all about doing my own.
I find this entire hobby endlessly fascinating. We are working to create the conditions for the world's most extraordinary forms of life to grow in front of us. Then, our reward is the tools to explore reality. Not a bad use of time.
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