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OfflinePsilimax
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Single use plastic alternatives?
    #27470365 - 09/16/21 11:26 AM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Have any advanced mycologists on the shroomery experimented with reusable tubs that can be sterilized in the pressure cooker ?
I’m searching for one could be reused hundreds of times to sterilize substrate and double as a cropping container as well.
  I’d greatly appreciated some brainstorm  ideas from the advanced mycology community about eliminating single use plastic for the commercial grower well as the hobbyist. 
  As a community of highly intelligent folks , working with a living organism from nature , I’m sure we can figure out how to not be part of the problem of filling up landfills with single use plastic!


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OfflineFridgedoor
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Psilimax]
    #27470381 - 09/16/21 11:33 AM (2 months, 19 days ago)

I like this thought!

But before we brainstorm I have a question. Do you throw your tubs away after a grow? They can be reused without sterilizing them. I just wash them with dish soap and they are ready for the next grow.

Substrate doesn't need to be sterilized either. If you use coir/verm you technically don't even need to pasteurize it.

I reuse all of my plastic utensils accept for petri dishes.


--------------------
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OfflinePsilimax
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Fridgedoor]
    #27470588 - 09/16/21 02:16 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Absolutely not  trashing them , I try to reuse my tubs until they crack or  I accidentally melt them or something else bad happens!
  Like you said I use soap and water and also spray a light mist of Everclear right before I dump substrate and spawn  into it that’s a negligible amount of alcohol it doesn’t really interfere with growth but helps to keep contamination in check.
I’m trying to find a reusable clear plastic tub that fits inside my pressure cooker that can double as a cropping container.
I’ve seen oyster mushroom growers use buckets with holes drilled in them I’d like to try something similar with lions mane . A bucket with holes could be problematic in a pressure cooker.
I’ve even been thinking of a stock pot that fits inside my pressure cooker to sterilize substrate in bulk. A sterile transfer in front of a hood to a suitable cropping container  would have to be part of that process. I let my PC cool in front of my hood so it doesn’t suck contamination inside as it cools But a large container with tight a lid and SFD that fits inside my PC would be the cats meow.
Unicorn bags are a great idea but I suck at cooking bags!
I have more failures than successes . I’ve found it’s an art I haven’t mastered I would just as soon go move on to something reusable.


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Psilimax]
    #27477615 - 09/22/21 12:50 AM (2 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Psilimax said:
Absolutely not  trashing them , I try to reuse my tubs until they crack or  I accidentally melt them or something else bad happens!
  Like you said I use soap and water and also spray a light mist of Everclear right before I dump substrate and spawn  into it that’s a negligible amount of alcohol it doesn’t really interfere with growth but helps to keep contamination in check.
I’m trying to find a reusable clear plastic tub that fits inside my pressure cooker that can double as a cropping container.
I’ve seen oyster mushroom growers use buckets with holes drilled in them I’d like to try something similar with lions mane . A bucket with holes could be problematic in a pressure cooker.
I’ve even been thinking of a stock pot that fits inside my pressure cooker to sterilize substrate in bulk. A sterile transfer in front of a hood to a suitable cropping container  would have to be part of that process. I let my PC cool in front of my hood so it doesn’t suck contamination inside as it cools But a large container with tight a lid and SFD that fits inside my PC would be the cats meow.
Unicorn bags are a great idea but I suck at cooking bags!
I have more failures than successes . I’ve found it’s an art I haven’t mastered I would just as soon go move on to something reusable.




You don't need to pressure cook anything for a bucket tek.  Just grain spawn in quart jars into pasteurized hwfp or straw and let the grain spawn be the supplement.

If you really wanted to sterilize your substrate you could use gallon or liter size polypropylene jars.  They are reusable, it's what commercial mushroom farmers grow their king oyster, maitake and enoki mushrooms in.


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InvisibleBaba Yaga

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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: liamtheloser]
    #27478275 - 09/22/21 03:22 PM (2 months, 13 days ago)



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Invisiblemind.at.large
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Baba Yaga] * 1
    #27478347 - 09/22/21 04:25 PM (2 months, 13 days ago)

I love the spirit but I would encourage you to rethink your ideas on conservation. I use polypropylene bags instead of jars, which yes creates more plastic waste, but since I can fit almost 2.5 times as much grain in bags per cycle opposed to jars, I’m conserving a lot when it comes to the energy it takes to sterilize. Plus you can reuse the bags for some things. I’m currently working on resterilizing spent cube substrate in already used bags and inoculating with oysters.

Like I said, I’m all for your desire to reduce your plastic waste, so don’t let what I’m saying change your mind, but I’ve had an issue with the conservation movements obsession with plastic waste. I believe it’s obsession has been a detriment to conservation as a whole. There is such a focus on plastic waste, because, well it’s visible and ugly. We look at landfills, or trashy cities, or plastic in the ocean and cry. I’ve had people complain to me about the plastic I use in mush cult, but no one ever complains about the fact that the coco coir I use comes all the way from India or Sri Lanka. The amount of petroleum (plastic) that is used to transport those materials must be insane. I personally think one of the best ways the mush cult community can reduce its impact, is to stop importing so much coir and just use the almost endless and free supply of manure that can most likely be found local. But coir is just so easy and pasteurizing is such a pain that I get why we all just use coir.

I really appreciate your spirit to reduce your impact and wastefulness. I fully support that. But waste extends way beyond what we can see.





*this rant may have possibly been inspired by my high school obsession with George Carlin….


Edited by mind.at.large (09/22/21 04:34 PM)


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Invisiblethe_chosen_one
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27478376 - 09/22/21 04:45 PM (2 months, 13 days ago)

Most PP5 rated plastics hold up fairly well. Pyrex would be better for longevity. Both come in various shapes, sizes and styles. The plastics will be embossed with a PP5 logo.


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OfflineGuerrilla
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: the_chosen_one]
    #27478519 - 09/22/21 07:05 PM (2 months, 13 days ago)

Would saco2 containers be any good to you? Especially as you are looking to use them as cropping containers.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: the_chosen_one]
    #27481520 - 09/25/21 10:05 AM (2 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

the_chosen_one said:
Most PP5 rated plastics hold up fairly well. Pyrex would be better for longevity. Both come in various shapes, sizes and styles. The plastics will be embossed with a PP5 logo.



With PP5 the thicker the better. I have thin PP5 takeaway containers which easily warp if in a pressure cooker, if I got to 25psi they can discolour and get far more warped.

And idea is to sterilize your agar in glass jars at high pressure, then you could pour into plastic tubs and heat treat again, but at low psi or just steaming. It will usually be enough to resterilize any airborne contams which got in. I have done the same with grains, put them in a glass or metal bowl with a foil cover or plate on top and PC at 20-25psi, then take them out and dump into a PP5 container while still very hot and do it again at lower pressure/temp.

I get big PP5 tubs of caramel popcorn which have pretty clear lids. I find tubs with fully round lids survive best, deformation can happen and square lids tend to get poor seals over time. SOme tubs are pp5 but have poor seals, like ice cream ones where a very good seal is not so important, but if you get a microwave soup in a pp5 container it is usually a very good seal.

PP is polypropylene, the 5 is a "resin ID code", sometimes you will find a tub with just the 5 on it with the arrows (and no PP)


Some tubs are PP but have no indication at all, if unsure I just microwave them with water and see if they hold up. Also many dips from takeaways will come with bases which are PP5, but the top is often a different plastic, if it is very clear it is usually not PP, they do this so it has clarity.

I have a bunch of broken glass petris, some were broken bases some broken lids, I use these as lids on PP5 tubs for agar, so I have good clarity.


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Invisiblethe_chosen_one
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: blackout]
    #27481733 - 09/25/21 01:59 PM (2 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

the_chosen_one said:
Most PP5 rated plastics hold up fairly well. Pyrex would be better for longevity. Both come in various shapes, sizes and styles. The plastics will be embossed with a PP5 logo.



With PP5 the thicker the better. I have thin PP5 takeaway containers which easily warp if in a pressure cooker, if I got to 25psi they can discolour and get far more warped.

And idea is to sterilize your agar in glass jars at high pressure, then you could pour into plastic tubs and heat treat again, but at low psi or just steaming. It will usually be enough to resterilize any airborne contams which got in. I have done the same with grains, put them in a glass or metal bowl with a foil cover or plate on top and PC at 20-25psi, then take them out and dump into a PP5 container while still very hot and do it again at lower pressure/temp.

I get big PP5 tubs of caramel popcorn which have pretty clear lids. I find tubs with fully round lids survive best, deformation can happen and square lids tend to get poor seals over time. SOme tubs are pp5 but have poor seals, like ice cream ones where a very good seal is not so important, but if you get a microwave soup in a pp5 container it is usually a very good seal.

PP is polypropylene, the 5 is a "resin ID code", sometimes you will find a tub with just the 5 on it with the arrows (and no PP)


Some tubs are PP but have no indication at all, if unsure I just microwave them with water and see if they hold up. Also many dips from takeaways will come with bases which are PP5, but the top is often a different plastic, if it is very clear it is usually not PP, they do this so it has clarity.

I have a bunch of broken glass petris, some were broken bases some broken lids, I use these as lids on PP5 tubs for agar, so I have good clarity.




Hey brother, very long time no see! Listen to this one ^^^ right here. Blackout knows his shit. Great details as usual. I use very few plastics in my techniques.

Hope all is well in your world. Really good seeing you.


--------------------
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InvisibleShroomintune
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Psilimax]
    #27484349 - 09/27/21 10:18 PM (2 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Psilimax said:
Have any advanced mycologists on the shroomery experimented with reusable tubs that can be sterilized in the pressure cooker ?




Saw this in another thread, 2.5 gallon polypropylene bucket that fits in a 23 qt presto.  Not sure where he sourced it?

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27477261#27477261


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OfflinePsilimax
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Shroomintune]
    #27485295 - 09/28/21 05:24 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

I found these two gallon buckets  :  House Naturals 2 Gallon Food... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095B9NHZB?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Fits in my big presto without much room to spare holds about 7 pounds of wood substrate at 70% moisture,  with enough air space to mix spawn , Pp lid too . Cooked some sub and it held up in the PC . Lions mane is  already spawned . When it’s ready I’ll just put it on its side and cracked the lid. Maybe I’ll open it and cover it with a cloth to keep the bugs out. Maybe I’ll turn the whole thing out into a fruiting chamber as it’s got tapered sides and blocks come out like a giant PF tech. I still plan on adding a micro pore  filter If needed but like my no pour  jam jar petri dishes flipping the lid works fine.


--------------------
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  - Groucho Marx -


Edited by Psilimax (09/28/21 05:26 PM)


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InvisibleShroomintune
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Psilimax]
    #27485529 - 09/28/21 08:00 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Oh, well headpalm.  Didn't realize that was you, oops. :smile:  Thanks for the link!


Edited by Shroomintune (09/28/21 08:01 PM)


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Psilimax]
    #27492546 - 10/04/21 06:10 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

the_chosen_one said:
Hope all is well in your world. Really good seeing you.



all good with me thanks, hope you are keeping well too.

You mentioned pyrex. I had some pyrex bowls with PP lids. I spoke of processing in glass and transferring to PP, but if you have bowls you can far more quickly put the PP lid on and close up and heat again (after removing your foil or plate used as a temporary cover).

Be careful as pyrex does not mean it is borosilicate, so it can be expensive just for the name, you may already know this but many think it is synonymous with borosilicate. I have little issues with regular glass anyway, I just do not subject them to extreme thermal shocks. I think in the EU currently produced pyrex is borosilicate, but as there is no "use by" date or legal restriction on imports then soda lime prex might still be on sale.


Quote:

Psilimax said:
I found these two gallon buckets  :  House Naturals 2 Gallon Food... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095B9NHZB?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share



these look like they possibly clip down with some force. Many lunch boxes do this too. A problem with this is that if you clamp down a lid and heat it a lot then it relaxes and deforms into a new shape, like you have heated it and stretched it and then when it cools again it sets into that new shape. So when fully cool it might not have a good seal anymore. With some of my lids I will not attach them properly, this is on ones that take a lot of force to close. I leave them resting lightly on top of the container in the PC. If I think my area is clean enough I will leave them cool completely and then quickly open the PC lid and snap on the lid right away. If the area is not so clean I might wait till it has just lost pressure and open and clamp while it is still very hot. I have also put them in plastic bags or covered with loose foil and let cool fully, then as before open quickly and snap the lid on.


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OfflinePsilimax
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: blackout]
    #27520490 - 10/27/21 07:19 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

After cooking one full tub shown in the above post I got lazy and didn’t spawn it right away. It’s been sitting a month now and has no contamination. Still a tight seal . The lid is polypropylene too . I’ll circle back here after a dozen cycles and report


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #27522864 - 10/29/21 03:27 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)



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OfflinePsilimax
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Psilimax]
    #27523153 - 10/29/21 07:48 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Bottle grows huh ? Cool stuff . It’s essentially sorta kinda what I’m up to .
Using the large 2-1/2 gallon tubs instead. Think small business size grow !  I’ve already pulled multiple flushes of lions mane off one large block with more on the way.          Shrooms are fun and easy if the basics are mastered. Lots of room to explore the organisms and find what works best for each different one .
  I’m working to eliminate disposables  by finding compatible large cropping/ fruiting containers . The bucket method for oyster mushrooms is great .  Polypropylene is OK I expect to get many cycles from the buckets in my previous post above  ,  glass is fragile and poses a hazard when fractured but if cared for can last a lifetime . Quality tempered borosilicate like Pyrex that fit perfectly in my big Presto PC would be the best IMO but hard to find in XXlarge sizes .
  Lots of ways to grow the fungi it wants to be alive!
  Let’s keep our Mother Earth clean while we enjoy her fungi benefits .
Every little action can have a ripple in a large unseen way .


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  - Groucho Marx -


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: Psilimax]
    #27525074 - 10/31/21 10:40 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Polypropylene is pretty awesome, all my stuff is PP5. I got PP5 jars like the 3 links, PP5 petri dishes that I do no-pour agar in, PP5 centrifuge tubes for slants. Been using them without issues for over 10 cycles for some so far. I have cracked 3 jars over the past 2 years just cause I'm a bit of dumb brute sometimes.

My only real waste is aluminum foil and micropore tape.


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Offlinem0n0id

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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #27530124 - 11/04/21 02:35 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

You can find PP tubs/buckets of a variety of sizes at food service stores. Surely you could get PP yoghurt containers as well.

PP is good stuff for being a plastic!


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Single use plastic alternatives? [Re: m0n0id]
    #27530142 - 11/04/21 02:49 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Oh yeah, luv me some PP


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