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InvisibletrendalM
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"The Jesus Factor"
    #2745444 - 05/30/04 01:13 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If anyone hasn't watched this Frontline episode, I highly reccomend it!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/

A couple parts I'd like to point out:

(near the beginning of part 2): a story about GW Bush talking to his mother about whether or not you have to take Jesus into your heart to go to heaven. His mother said that she wasn't sure, but she thought you shouldn't worry about that and should just be a good person and worry about your own life. GW thought that it was REQUIRED to accept Jesus before going to heaven. They decided to call Reverend Billy Graham and ask him what he thought. Graham agreed with Barbara. GW decided that he didn't agree with either of them (and apparently knows better than Reverend Graham himself): you MUST accept Jesus to be "saved".

(10 minutes into part 2) Richard Land, a director of an Evangelical convention, talks about the day GW was inaugurated for his second term as Texas Governor. GW says to Land, "I believe that God wants me to be president".

(also in part 2, about 12 mins in) GW at a debate in 2000, when asked what political philosopher or thinker he most identified with, answers "Christ...because he changed my heart".

(about 2:30 into part 3) "I asked congress to join me and pass what I call the faith-based initiative, which would help change the culture of Washington and the behavior of beauracracies . They've stalled. So I just signed an executive order." - GW Bush

Please watch the film before commenting...but I would like to hear what you all think about this!


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: "The Jesus Factor" [Re: trendal]
    #2745675 - 05/30/04 03:40 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Watching that is creepy man, i dont know what it is.

I think way too many things about this.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: "The Jesus Factor" [Re: trendal]
    #2745793 - 05/30/04 04:55 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I've watched the first three parts so far.

Frightening, to be sure, but nothing really new that I haven't heard elsewhere. I guess it's not too surprising that if a belief system saves you from self-destruction you'll credit it with all sorts of other capacities (like saving the world) that it clearly doesn't have.

George W. Bush believes that he is an instrument of God, and therefore that his judgment is infallible. There are tens of millions of people in the United States who embrace such naive and simple-minded views of religion and the Bible that to call their mindset "medieval" would be a great disservice to the theologians of the Middle Ages, who were actually far more subtle than these fundamentalist yahoos could ever manage to be. W. owes his presidency to those people and has no hope of getting a second term without them.

My favorite part is the Baptist minister in Part 3 who points out that when Bush picks up the Bible and says "THIS is the rule book, with rules bigger than any government law" he is actually compromising his sworn oath to defend the Constitution.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: "The Jesus Factor" [Re: trendal]
    #2746089 - 05/30/04 10:39 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

GernBlanston said:

By definition, reason is the opposite of faith. By dogmatic definition, God is Faith; therefore Satan is reason. Anyone who does not accept his views as rote are simply Satan. It's that simple in his wee fucking brain.







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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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InvisibleZero7a1
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Registered: 10/23/02
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Re: "The Jesus Factor" [Re: trendal]
    #2747427 - 05/30/04 07:09 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Why should he try and change the culture of washington? The culture which washington should be is being led astray because of things like this. A further dillusion of the democracy, a further tangent from the way it should be progressing toward!

How can bush think that because he believes in something that he should try and mess with the government to try and do what he thinks is god's will?

You can come travel down to Dallas Texas and meet with a lot of these conservative christians who will tell you that Bush is right, they will listen to them

Because religion has taken the hearts of so many jesus "freaks" in america, Bush can use them as his pawns. sadly these people who claim to know so much about jesus, forgiveness, are the ones supporting the war effort, endangering the planety by driving their big suv's.

I can see why some of the black people like bush, but i dont think it is very smart on their behalf to invest their faith and future on a man who doesnt know half about trying to make this environment a more culturally friendly place.

We have a lot of social problems, but setting up a new beuracratic institution to deal with RELIGOUS groups seems a little out of hand to me. we could be spending t he money on educcation to raise teachers salaries, giving more grant money for kids who attend public universities. We could be boosting programs to make art and science reach further into communities.

More money to try and develop new forms of energy production.

Because of these things ^ and their lack of substantial involvement... we have these problems that we face. I forsee using these institutions as a means of trying to reach out to the homeless and the drug users, to try and get these people to believe in god, instead of trying to deal with the real problems they face.

Then he can declare victory in the war on drugs. This sounds like another one of his "plans" at solving problems which cannot be done by what he simply chooses to believe.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: "The Jesus Factor" [Re: trendal]
    #2747610 - 05/30/04 08:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Some comments on the four parts I pointed out:

1) From this I get the idea that Bush is the kind of guy who thinks he is right...and screw anyone who doesn't agree with him (including those who should know more than him, people he goes to for advice).

2) Bush thinks he is an instrument of God. How he came to this decision, I don't know...but it can't be a good thing to have in a President (and the most powerful man on earth). I wonder if he (thinks he) hears God speaking to him? At any rate, he must think that God is "behind him", rooting for GW all the way. Maybe he even thinks that everything he does is for God and makes God happy (since God wanted him to be President).

3) This probably indicates that GW doesn't see much difference between Religion and Politics. Which probably means he doesn't see a reason to keep the two separated...

4) A much better example of what I described in #1. Bush thinks he is right, so if congress doesn't agree with him..."well screw them! I can just sign an executive order!" So much for checks and balances...


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: "The Jesus Factor" [Re: trendal]
    #2747662 - 05/30/04 09:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly Trendal. I pointed out my personal opposition to his attitude in my response as to the concern over bush and what he "appears" (as you have pointed out) to be.

This is unsettling considered the level of power he is trying to sway. Whats worse is that people actually think this is the type of guy they want.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: "The Jesus Factor" [Re: trendal]
    #2749169 - 05/31/04 07:10 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I can just sign an executive order!"



Executive Orders are a real problem.
Carter Executive Orders
Reagan Executive Orders
G.H.W. Bush Executive Orders
Clintons Executive Orders
G.W. Bush Executive Orders


Edited by luvdemshrooms (05/31/04 07:14 AM)


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OfflineZahid
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Re: "The Jesus Factor" [Re: trendal]
    #2750694 - 05/31/04 08:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm surprised Ol' Billy G sided with Babs.


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