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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Verticillium isolated on agar/mycelium.
#27453947 - 09/02/21 06:11 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey. So someone said that a plate I had, that was "scalloping" looked like what youde expect to verticillium or mycogone to look like. But I was looking over the contamination thread and it says ""Spores must come in direct contact with part of a fruit body and will then cause symptoms in that area. So is it even possible to grow vert on just agar/mycelium in a petri? Or would the spores just be present, and would would truly damage the mycelium? Interesting no pics of vert on agar or grains that I can see.
Also no pics of mycogone in the contamination thread.
And what Wikipedia shows does not look like what most people think it is.
I looked over this thread but how do we know it's vert on the plates https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22020260
And then of course bods mycogone thread.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25285598/fpart/all
I'm asking because of that ape spawn. But I do also deal with vert...
I think the blobbing is just pe traits.
Any of you guys get mycogone you think?
Actually what about this https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Cultural-characteristics-of-different-V-dahliae-morphotypes-cultured-on-PDA-during-21-to_fig3_311652772
Can that be added to the contamination forum?
Meh, looks like it needs a host...? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311652772_Morphological_Variability_Within_and_Among_Verticillium_Species_Collected_in_Tunisia#pf8
And are we more specifically dealing with v. Fungi cola? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verticillium_dry_bubble
Cause that can't be seen on a petri dish it seems. Can you culture vert on a petri alone, and or with just mycelium? I'm under the impression it needs a host, and idk if mycelium would suffice. I think what most people think is vert or mycogone is just a reaction to bacteria.
But I'm wrong about alot of things, I just want to understand this better.
I'm thinking about trying to culture a vert isolate.
And I have an ape tub coming up with spawn produced that is what most would say is "wet bubble". I'm hoping it will produce similar formations and I will try and clone it. I don't think I saw that in bods thread and idk why.
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Verticillium isolated on agar/mycelium. [Re: QM33]
#27456751 - 09/05/21 07:28 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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- Okay some fun new info before I try to grow out vert on agar.
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6640384/
- ""
- Although its pathogenicity to these mushroom‐forming basidiomycetes has not been demonstrated experimentally, its presence on their sporocarps makes it plausible that L. fungicola can infect a range of mushroom species. However, L. fungicola is not often found on wild mushroom and the Telephora terrestris samples used by Zare and Gams (2008) were decaying, indicating that L. fungicola does not have a wide host range and might more often infect already decaying mushroom
]But HERE ]"" ]ECOLOGY OF L. FUNGICOLA IN THE CASING ]Infection by L. fungicola most probably takes place in the casing, as it appears that L. fungicola cannot infect A. bisporus vegetative mycelium in the compost (Bernardo et al., 2004; Calonje et al., 2000a; Cross and Jacobs, 1968). In the casing, L. fungicola spores do not immediately germinate. Cross and Jacobs (1968) found that, in natural soil and peat, most spores had not germinated after 7 days, and the few germinated spores had short germ tubes. In sterilized soil and peat, however, the spores readily germinated and, after 7 days, extensive mycelium and sporulation were visible. The phenomenon that the germination and growth of fungal propagules is inhibited by active soil microorganisms is general for most soils, and is known as soil fungistasis (Lockwood and Filonow, 1981). Cross and Jacobs (1968) suggested that the germination of L. fungicola spores requires an external nutrient source. In casing, L. fungicola spores did not germinate, except in the immediate vicinity of Agaricus hyphae. After germination, the pathogen grew alongside the hyphae of Agaricus. These results suggest that nutrients leaking from Agaricus hyphae had instigated L. fungicola spore germination. In agreement, Thapa and Jandaik (1987) demonstrated that, although spores of the pathogen can germinate in sterile water, germination and germ tube growth are greatly stimulated by the addition of nutrients. It was suggested that carbon is the stimulating factor. Fungistasis is not only caused by nutrient depletion; the production of inhibiting compounds also contributes to the inhibition of spore germination. In the case of L. fungicola, it was demonstrated that volatiles from compost inhibited spore germination (Wuest and Forer, 1975). It appears that L. fungicola spores are dormant and germinate only when Agaricus colonizes the casing, thus awaiting conditions that favour the proliferation of the pathogen.
- A helpful touch on casing/surface conditions/but also we use coir...
- ""
- Spores of Lecanicillium remain viable for more than a year in soil (Cross and Jacobs, 1968) and, if present on a mushroom farm, L. fungicola spores can survive for 7–8 months under dry conditions (Fekete, 1967). Therefore, once L. fungicola has occurred on a farm, there is likely to be a reservoir of inoculum on the site, and this inoculum will serve as a source of infection for following crops as a result of poor hygiene or wind‐blown dust and soil. However, the primary source of dry bubble infection is still under debate.
- It is unlikely that L. fungicola is present in the compost delivered to farms, as the spores die at 40 °C and will thus not survive the composting process, where temperatures reach at least 70–80 °C (Van Griensven, 1988). Because of this, it was mentioned early on that the casing was more likely to be the source of infection (Ware, 1933). In support of this, Wong and Preece (1987) detected L. fungicola spores in 10% of the arriving peat batches on a British mushroom farm over a period of 3 years. However, it is not likely that L. fungicola proliferates saprophytically in peat, as its growth is inhibited by the microbial community in this substrate (Cross and Jacobs, 1967). Moreover, the anaerobic conditions and low pH are unfavourable for L. fungicola. In the UK in 1988, surface peat was used mainly (Visscher, 1988) and L. fungicola may survive on basidiomycete species that grow in and on such peat. Nowadays, in commercial farms, black peat is used mainly, which is taken from lower peat layers that seem to be a less likely habitat for L. fungicola. Indeed, replacing casing mixtures of clay, loam and humus by mixtures of sphagnum peat, sand and carbonate resulted in a considerable reduction in Verticillium incidence in the mushroom industry in Denmark
- ""
- This suggests that Agaricus is most susceptible to infection prior to the formation of mushrooms. However, a symptomless mushroom is not necessarily an uninfected mushroom, as L. fungicola hyphae and conidia can be present on the cap surface before discoloration develops (North and Wuest, 1993). Indeed, L. fungicola was detected on 25% of the symptomless mushrooms on a farm with high disease incidence (Wong and Preece, 1987).
- FUTURE PROSPECTS
- Currently, the control of L. fungicola relies mainly on prevention and hygiene measures on mushroom farms. Active control of the disease is difficult because the chemicals used have become less effective as the pathogen has developed resistance and legislation is restricting their use. Therefore, dry bubble disease is likely to remain one of the most devastating pathogens in commercial mushroom growing. A better understanding of the ecology of L. fungicola and its interaction with A. bisporus will lead to innovative ways to control dry bubble disease[/color]
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Verticillium isolated on agar/mycelium. [Re: QM33]
#27456808 - 09/05/21 08:18 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Debate between me and sandman, the only person who felt like they could debate this. And he's done great and helped alot. I feel I've done everything I can do besides try to grow vert.
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QM33 said: If anyone would like to debate verts ability to grow on agar I'm over here.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=27456751&page=0&vc=#27456751
Hoping I'll have an infection soon actually so I can try and grow it out lol
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sandman420 said: Debate the ability to grow on agar? LOL
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07060669309500839?journalCode=tcjp20
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QM33 said: Ya did you see their recipe? They have raffinose for a carbon source. So you think it would grow on a regular Malt plate?
I'll add that to my thread tho
And ya I know Malt has carbon but it's clearly different.
Idk if you looked at the info I added to my thread but I found a study saying it won't grow on mycelium
""place in the casing, as it appears that L. fungicola cannot infect A. bisporus vegetative mycelium in the compost (Bernardo et al., 2004; Calonje et al., 2000a; Cross and Jacobs, 1968
""In agreement, Thapa and Jandaik (1987) demonstrated that, although spores of the pathogen can germinate in sterile water, germination and germ tube growth are greatly stimulated by the addition of nutrients. It was suggested that carbon is the stimulating factor. Fungistasis is not only caused by nutrient depletion; the production of inhibiting compounds also contributes to the inhibition of spore germination. In the case of L. fungicola, it was demonstrated that volatiles from compost inhibited spore germination
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QM33 said: "" In casing, L. fungicola spores did not germinate, except in the immediate vicinity of Agaricus hyphae
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sandman420 said: The immediate vicinity of hyphae would be everywhere within days.
Yes it would grow on a regular medium too, the selective media is something that just favors it over say the mushroom mycelium or perhaps the regular mushroom mycelium wont grow on it at all.
As the paper says later in 1987 they demonstrated it can germinate in sterile water but is greatly enhanced by yada yada
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QM33 said: I know but I'm talking about agar. If the spores wouldn't germinate in casing without hyphae why would they germinate on a plate without hyphae
And if I understand correctly there is a difference between hyphae and mycelium and hyphae is the first step towards a fruitbody.
Now clarify me here cause if anything this may be my fault, the edges of mycelium on a petri dish are not hyphae, mycelium itself is not hyphae, hyphae turns into primordia.
I would like to see it grown on a plate, isolated, without raffinose. Any links for that?
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sandman420 said: That was an earlier study. If they will germinate in sterile water on the (much much) later study then it's reasonable to assume they will germinate practically anywhere wet.
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QM33 said:
Quote:
sandman420 said: That was an earlier study. If they will germinate in sterile water on the (much much) later study then it's reasonable to assume they will germinate practically anywhere wet.
Just because the spores germinate doesn't mean they have appropriate means to grow.
My points not that it isn't present, but if it will really effect mycelium. Would it even grow next to it. And if the spores are present in a mushroom culture that was not previously infected I would believe that culture to grow out much more appropriately than trying to grow a clone from an infected mushroom.
Quote:
Wall.E said: Hyphae is a cell, mycelium is an organism of dikaryotic hyphae
There are different types of hyphae as well From wiki "" Generative hyphae are relatively undifferentiated and can develop reproductive structures. They are typically thin-walled, occasionally developing slightly thickened walls, usually have frequent septa, and may or may not have clamp connections. They may be embedded in mucilage or gelatinized materials. Skeletal hyphae are of two basic types. The classical form is thick-walled and very long in comparison to the frequently septate generative hyphae, which are unbranched or rarely branched, with little cell content. They have few septa and lack clamp connections. Fusiform skeletal hyphae are the second form of skeletal hyphae. Unlike typical skeletal hyphae these are swollen centrally and often exceedingly broad, hence giving the hypha a fusiform shape. Binding hyphae are thick-walled and frequent branched. Often they resemble deer antlers or defoliated trees because of the many tapering branches. Also from wiki ""Hyphae may be modified in many different ways to serve specific functions. Some parasitic fungi form haustoria that function in absorption within the host cells.
Definition haus·to·ri·um /hôˈstôrēəm/ nounBOTANY plural noun: haustoria a slender projection from the root of a parasitic plant, such as a dodder, or from the hyphae of a parasitic fungus, enabling the parasite to penetrate the tissues of its host and absorb nutrients from it.
I think we all know what molds look like isolated on agar. Except maybe vert..
AND! EDIT
honestly your steering me a little bit sandman. But now I'm almost wondering if a mushroom culture dish is contaminated with vert spores, if what we see on some plates isn't vert myc, but the mycelium reacting the the parasite.
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Just waiting for a sample to go to agar.
Edited by QM33 (09/06/21 07:24 AM)
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