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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
    #28386623 - 07/06/23 01:20 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

I'm entirely open to the possibility that there's no such thing as consciousness and that dualism is an illusion.



The thing is that I've thought about it from a lot of different angles including all the angles that are being thrown at me and I'm just waiting for someone to hit me with something new. Don't beat yourself up if you can't because a lot of people have been trying for a while now and even the ones we called the smartest have failed to present


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
    #28386624 - 07/06/23 01:23 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Logic has no footing without good sense,


I actually disagree 100%. I think that the concept of wavelength has no footing without any sense, "good" or not. It seems entirely possible that logic requires no sense whatsoever. Gnostic traditions very much speak to this.





I can't say I'm surprised to hear you and many people think like this as if it were some mutually exclusive thing completely incommensurate with what's already been said here & beyond.

But instead of heeding my pointing out our proclivity for delusion,
feel free to think you're the one who got it right and at the exception of anything otherwise.  Sounds brilliant.

Srsly tho.  Goodnight.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
    #28386625 - 07/06/23 01:23 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

In other words the fact that I can use my SENSEs and my capacity to abstract to create SENtenCEs to make predictions about the world does not say anything about why I actually SEEM TO DO any of it. All of you could happen without the SEEMING, and yet the seeming is the one thing upon which we can all seem to agree is there


Edited by morrowasted (07/06/23 04:28 AM)


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
    #28386626 - 07/06/23 01:24 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

But instead of heeding my pointing out our proclivity for delusion,
feel free to think you're the one who got it right and at the exception of anything otherwise.  Sounds brilliant.


dude. I'm literally saying that I'm seemingly the only one in here who's  explicitly admitting I got it not right


Yes I am saying that I know why I got it not right and I am saying that I think I know why I never could and neither could you.


Yes I'm saying that I've learned a lot of things and I can do a lot of things and you can take that to mean that you can't challenge what I have to say but that's what you think. You can absolutely challenge it. All the textbooks on logic and science can be freely accessed now I'm sure you're smart enough to do it

You may exit the dialog at your convenience/consent


The dialogue is happening very much. Among nearly all of the most accomplished academicians of the present from every field.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #28386628 - 07/06/23 01:28 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

:picard:

Okay, great, not disagreeing completely with you there and that's something to round back to next time and start with that in mind then.

Anyway it's too damn late so let's just please maybe try and pick it up tomorrow or after we're through salvaging through the wreckage of tonight and hope that old man Red doesn't kick us off his property for it.  :oldman:

:ruggedwink:


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass] * 2
    #28386629 - 07/06/23 01:29 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Days and nights mean almost nothing to me but I hold no one hostage


I probably sleep as much in a week as most people sleep in about one and a half nights. Certainly my gf gets as much sleep in 36hrs as I get in 7 days. On average- I've logged and measured it. At this rate I will probably get no sleep at all by the time I'm 35. When I was in my mid-twenties I slept at least 12 hours a day because of the medications I was told I needed to be on. I really don't think people need more than maybe 3 hours of sleep per cycle. Like most people need more than that right now but I'm saying I think that most people have the potential to not need more than that. perhaps less. I have found a way of dreaming while awake. I don't know how important the non-dreaming parts of sleep are but I've participated in them very seldom for quite a while now and by every measurement of what it means to be cognitively capable, the trajectory seems to be positive....

I'll get enough sleep eventually.....

Maybe I'll get dementia very early but as far as I can tell at age 33 I just keep learning faster and faster and faster, and the fact that I keep learning faster is much of what keeps me from being able to sleep. Most people would probably think that it's has to do with the fact that I deal with suffering and death so much but that's not actually it anymore. I worked through almost all of that a while ago. The hard problem of consciousness is pretty much the last piece of the puzzle. There's a few bits and pieces for people in their respective fields to quantify better than they have but that will always just be a measure of instrumentation

RGV was already given multiple opportunities to put the red light to this conversation and did not. There's nothing wrong with focusing your efforts on figuring things out at a particular level. I'm sure that RGV understands far more about neuro anatomy than I do. I'm sure that understanding has many useful applications. In fact I've already started applying some of what I've learned from him in my own life and it seems veridical


But this isn't a thread about who is the smartest.

It was a thread about something...  and now it's just a thread...  Weave it...


Edited by morrowasted (07/06/23 01:53 AM)


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Invisiblecubedryeguy
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #28386681 - 07/06/23 03:44 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)



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Invisiblecubedryeguy
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #28386683 - 07/06/23 03:49 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Morrow don’t forget that learning and taking in knowledge is wonderful but quieting down and letting that knowledge digest and seeing what your mind excretes out is equally important. I prefer half lotus like RGV but they also make squatty potties



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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: cubedryeguy]
    #28386696 - 07/06/23 04:15 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:



Morrow don’t forget that learning and taking in knowledge is wonderful but quieting down and letting that knowledge digest and seeing what your mind excretes out is equally important. I prefer half lotus like RGV but they also make squatty potties


I'm genuinely curious what you think the inherent use of being quiet is. I am bad at being concise but mostly bc I want to be unambiguous. Knowledge May digest very quickly without needing internal silence. I'm of the opinion that the Western conception that meditation should be about trying to think less is just another form of opium.  In any case, I have been sitting in silence. I have been reading and typing.

silence is Golden, but nobody wants gold unless somebody's listening. I listen. A lot. The more I listen, the more I say, and the less I sleep.

I default to half lotus position without thinking about it for about the last 9 months. 'Indian style' before. If I'm in public and I don't want to call any attention to myself I will sit more conformance with other people but if I'm in a place where I feel comfortable that whatever judgment anyone else might pass will be of no consequence, and whatever I'm sitting on allows for it, I also default to half lotus. I even find it comfortable to sleep in a kind of half lotus position. Or rather sitting that way may be connected to the need for less sleep. Idk


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Invisiblecubedryeguy
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
    #28386711 - 07/06/23 04:42 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

I appreciate the use of the word genuinely. Meditation is meditation, it’s not trying to get anywhere and it’s not trying to think less. I get caught up in recycled thought patterns to a lesser degree and don’t take my thoughts as serious as I once did before starting disciplined meditation. It’s been a nice symptom.


It’s interesting the more you listen the more you say. For myself I find the opposite to be true. In either case I can understand the less sleeping part. You seem to be very passionate about learning and gaining knowledge. I can understand that passion as it gets expressed in different forms. At the moment I just binged through a passionate stage of writing and playing music on my piano. I’m still having trouble sleeping. There’s something to that energy…

Sleeping in half lotus…
:seriousthumbsup:


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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: cubedryeguy]
    #28386716 - 07/06/23 04:48 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

I should add that I’ve noticed when I severely limit tv, phone, music, etc and by bringing more awareness throughout my day supplemented with disciplined evening meditation I need less sleep. Maybe the body and mind become more cohesive and work a little more efficiently.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: cubedryeguy]
    #28386745 - 07/06/23 05:35 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

I get caught up in recycled thought patterns to a lesser degree and don’t take my thoughts as serious as I once did before starting disciplined meditation.


if people have the impression that I'm taking my thoughts seriously they are very mistaken. I couldn't be taking them any less seriously. Suffering is serious and remediating it as much as I can the only thing I take seriously. For me that involves feeling genuinely useful to other people, which I feel everytime I work, all day, even when people are ungrateful due to lack of perspective. For some of them relieving suffering means I bring their 4mg of IV Dilaudid every 3 hours not a minute late- maybe the suffering is all withdrawal at this point even if it began with pain, but to me it's irrelevant. I can only talk an addicted brain into suffering less so much. This isn't just drugs, but all compulsions. People suffer when they realize they're reliving the same dramas over and over and you can try to show them a way out but it's a very subtle art because compulsive brains are good at selective attention and memory that's great for the compulsive brain but bad for the person who has it and usually bad for those around it too.

Quote:

It’s interesting the more you listen the more you say. For myself I find the opposite to be true.


it was very much the opposite for me until recently. It was a certain critical mass, not an insignificant amount of which involved understanding the concepts RGV explained here, that made me realize the only thing stopping me from learning as much as I can are hubris or laziness. So I listen more and more, and my motives are almost always called into question, as a matter of course. I take no offense. I would have called my motives into question too

I'm not afraid of death but I very much like being alive because I have so much to do. One of those things is understanding more. Why not speak as many languages as I can? I already have a leg up in the game. Playing video games and watching most shows is boring to me. I like to garden but mostly I just read and work and do Sophistry like this. There are a few shows I really love though


I wish very much that I had not given up on playing piano so quickly. I only tried for about 2 years when I was younger and got so absorbed in learning how to program that I gave it up. I have a feeling I could pick up the drums really quickly but I live in an apartment complex and I'm fine with letting other people play music while I dance



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: cubedryeguy] * 3
    #28386748 - 07/06/23 05:38 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

I wish this conversation were in a side thread, the only loosely relevant point in the last 20 posts or so is about white matter.

I am a bit concerned about the non-existence of the mathematical idea of a point or a number, which is not supposed to be 3-d reality, but rather it is totally functional as a conceptual thing.

because the conceptual things that numbers and geometry represents work consistently and reliably we can use mathematical principles (ideas) in our lives just as we poke sticks into hedges to make the hiding animals move.

granted, asking a bunch of drug users for some restraint is like attempting to herd cats...

please let's move predictions and cosmology into a separate thread.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28386750 - 07/06/23 05:39 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I wish this conversation were in a side thread, the only loosely relevant point in the last 20 posts or so is about white matter.

I am a bit concerned about the non-existence of the mathematical idea of a point or a number, which is not supposed to be 3-d reality, but rather it is totally functional as a conceptual thing.

because the conceptual things that numbers and geometry represents work consistently and reliably we can use mathematical principles (ideas) in our lives just as we poke sticks into hedges to make the hiding animals move.

granted, asking a bunch of drug users for some restraint is like attempting to herd cats...

please let's move predictions and cosmology into a separate thread.



Will do. Thanks for all you've done.


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28386777 - 07/06/23 06:29 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

I wasn’t referring to you RGV about being rude. Not at all. Your work is very interesting and sounds cutting edge.

Namaste


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: Neurotech]
    #28386887 - 07/06/23 09:19 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

muchos gracias dudes!


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28387715 - 07/06/23 09:18 PM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Yep, consciousness is a hot topic these days. Just stumbled across this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/out-of-the-darkness/202306/does-the-soul-exist


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: Neurotech] * 1
    #28387798 - 07/06/23 11:11 PM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Meat machine is such an ungrateful notion imo.

Dynamic electromagnetic bio-mechanical experiencing perplexion a billion years in development sounds at least somewhat more appreciative to me.

Quote:

For example, despite decades of rigorous research, no one has any clear notion of which brain processes might be involved in consciousness. There are also many strange mismatches between brain activity and conscious experience, including cases of minimal brain activity—such as when people are in comas—where consciousness not only continues but sometimes becomes more intense than normal.




The simple solution here is that anything non-physical is as of yet beyond the boundaries of what is provably real, and is as such speculation, which is fine, but necessary to be labeled as such imo.

Near death experiences can't be taken literally. Have you ever been through a coma?

Recalling experiences while sedated, before or after a coma are common, but extra terrestrial encounters in such a case are no different to those in the desert.

Anil Seth explains his view of consciousness as a kind of controlled hallucination, which doesn't sound dissimilar to an illusion but has more of a neurological basis to it.

In my bio I say,

Quote:

Who is Sudly to me? Someone who wants the world to believe not that we have souls, but that we are souls that did and still do evolve.




Quote:

It may be that consciousness is a universal and fundamental quality. 




Pansychism purports an as of yet undiscovered force that is beyond the scope of what is scientifically viable. Again fine to say but important to label.

Being grateful for sunlight is nice I say.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly]
    #28387877 - 07/07/23 03:14 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

The minimum white matter is a point.

The D0 dark brane surrounds it.

Empty branes..are D0 branes.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly] * 2
    #28387883 - 07/07/23 03:20 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

A brief dream sequence between unconsciousness and conscious states may represent hours of events without taking any time at all.
The narrative feeds upon a single ramified association matrix. Details of the dream events unfold in the recounting that did not happen while unconscious at all.

this happens at the end or even in the middle of surgery when the anaesthetic briefly becomes ineffective.

OBE's are in this class of experience.

That is my opinion.


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