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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly]
#28386585 - 07/06/23 12:34 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Light is described in terms of wavelength, wavelengths that haven't changed since whenever and however light came to be.
dude you're just not reading what I'm saying or something
Graph a wavelength. Any kind of wavelength. It could even represent something that doesn't exist at all that you made up entirely. Knowingly. It doesn't matter. What is the x axis? What is the y-axis? Is there another axis? What is it?
No matter what we're talking about a Cartesian coordinate plane.
If you can feel like you can answer all these questions then I want you to tell me what the demarcations of whatever Cartesian coordinate plane you want represent.
I understand that there is an apparent electromagnetic spectrum and that the potential for the experience of green correlates to a particular portion of it
What you do not understand is that this correlation says nothing about the why it is experienced.
All of these correlations could exist without experience. Invoke Occam's razor.
Are you experienced?
Edited by morrowasted (07/06/23 12:41 AM)
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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386586 - 07/06/23 12:35 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Well, it would appear our friend's logic here is suffering from a case of the hiccups, and no not just the "I hadn't considered I hadn't considered everything yet" hiccups of logic we occasionally see through here. Nay, rather this was a more insidious form logic hiccups, "intractable" the sufferer claimed while beating his fists in exasperation over having tried countless remedies to no avail.

I stated the intractability of the logic outright over and over. I stated who proved it and when and how you can look it up and prove it for yourself if you want to. Proofs are the exact kind of thing you don't have to trust anybody about. If you learn how to do them you can do them for yourself
That's why I don't want to try and go into formally proving it because I already know that that would be a fruitless effort. That's what you or at least sudly don't seem to realize
It's easy to become mesmerized with physics when you are looking at a particular scale
When you zoom all the way in and you zoom all the way out the mesmerization turns into bafflement.
Anyone that you might think of as an authority to whom I'm appealing is presently baffled. Not a single one of them believes that they've got the ability to answer any question you might throw at them. The only kind of people who still do that are the kind of people who didn't ever try to formally prove that logic could produce a complete set of provable hypotheses. Quite a few people have done that by now including myself because it was already done over a hundred years ago
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sudly
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386588 - 07/06/23 12:41 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Yeah, wavelengths of light where there before humanity.
We evolved and became capable of experiencing those wavelengths of light with the colour rods and cones of our eyes.
Our understanding and description of those wavelengths of light have also developed overtime to what they are now.
A 432nm wavelength of light is a 432nm wavelength of light regardless of how we describe it.
Do you want a picture of this 'apparent' spectrum of light?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted] 1
#28386589 - 07/06/23 12:43 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Yeah, it's not really a big deal because it makes no difference anyways dude. Agree to disagree, doesn't matter to me if you think of the same thing differently.
Either way, I can entertain it from your point of view just as well & its fascinatingly fun, but at the same time at some point when you put down the intellect from its more extraneous mastrabatorily derived harpings and simply bask simmering in the warm glow of ye' ol' ball of magic fire in the sky.
And as sure as it is that things go bump in the night it all becomes clear the night sky is starry.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly]
#28386591 - 07/06/23 12:44 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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No, I've seen the picture many times. I don't know probably for the first time when I was like eight or nine but I've got half a dozen textbooks on my shelf that have basically the same one. I measure peoples' capacity to see more than just colors in many ways every time I go to the work I get paid for. I'm aware that the visual spectrum supposedly captured by the human eye represents such a small portion of EM radiation that numbers capable of representing how small that portion is didn't even really exist until the last few centuries
You've still not answered any question about why experience occurs. This electromagnetic spectrum could be perfectly characterized and yet the mechanism by which experience occurs is not there. The mechanism by which photoreceptors transmitted information to the occipital lobe which transmits information to the cortex which transmits information of the thalamus which transmits information for the brain stem and back all of that can be characterized
And all of that could be reflexive. by Occam's razor, it should be.
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sudly
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386593 - 07/06/23 12:48 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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But we're not living in a few centuries ago..
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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386594 - 07/06/23 12:51 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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The Blind Ass said: Yeah, it's not really a big deal because it makes no difference anyways dude. Agree to disagree, doesn't matter to me if you think of the same thing differently.
Either way, I can entertain it from your point of view just as well & its fascinatingly fun, but at the same time at some point when you put down the intellect from its more extraneous mastrabatorily derived harpings and simply bask simmering in the warm glow of ye' ol' ball of magic fire in the sky.
And as sure as it is that things go bump in the night it all becomes clear the night sky is starry.
I'm not putting down anybody's intellect.
Just like some wavelengths are smaller than others some intellects are smaller than others.
Those with a large intellect are in a position to either abuse other people or try to help other people
I would almost never ever cop to the fact that I understand more about anything other than what I'm licensed for then the average person because that's the way that most people gain trust in the lack of personal rapport. Which is fair.
But it's actually the case that everybody of sufficient intellect can prove the incompleteness of formal logic but nobody can prove why experience happens
Edited by morrowasted (07/06/23 01:04 AM)
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly]
#28386595 - 07/06/23 12:52 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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sudly said: But we're not living in a few centuries ago..
No we're living in what we call 2023 and it's been just over a hundred years since we could prove that we can't prove everything that's true. Specifically we can prove that there is something that's true that cannot be proven even if it can be stated precisely/formally.
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sudly
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted] 1
#28386596 - 07/06/23 12:53 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Well, I certainly don't think we're having the same experience at the moment
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386599 - 07/06/23 12:54 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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No one's saying you're putting down anyone's intellect.
If you can't personally find common ground on the matter than it's perfectly alright to agree to disagree you know?
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly]
#28386600 - 07/06/23 12:54 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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I think it's less a me thing and more you thing honestly. I don't know if you're just leaving out any kind of education or learning or whatever that you may have. But as far as I can tell you're just asking a series of questions that amounts to engaging in sophistry. And to an extent we're all engaging in sophistry but some of us are doing it in a more self-reinforcing way than others
Once you've literally proved that you can't prove everything you might want to know(,) the nature of(,) how you engage in sophistry changes
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sudly
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386602 - 07/06/23 12:56 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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I think you've provided some interesting answers.
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386604 - 07/06/23 12:57 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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And he I was thinking we were presenting lines of reasoning as to the opposite effect?
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386605 - 07/06/23 12:57 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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The Blind Ass said: No one's saying you're putting down anyone's intellect.
It's alright to agree to disagree you know that right? lol.
I mean I guess. I have patients disagree with me all the time about the fact that they need to be drinking less alcohol or eating less sugar. Maybe they're right but inevitably they end up with cirrhosis and jaundice or diabetes and amputations.....
There's certain things that are more disagreeable than others and they're, in my experience, precisely complementary to the kinds of things that most people think are the most disagreeable.
Edited by morrowasted (07/06/23 01:03 AM)
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386609 - 07/06/23 01:00 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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The Blind Ass said: And he I was thinking we were presenting lines of reasoning as to the opposite effect?

I don't understand what you're trying to say and I also don't really see anything like a line of reasoning, not even for myself. I said I could give you some lines of reasoning but I'd rather not because I think it would be a waste of everybody here's time. Nothing that's been said here has been formalized. You can't have linear reasoning without formalizing your operators at the very least but you also need to set a minimal set of definitions. I can work with wavelength because there's not very much disagreeable about it within itself. but anyone who's focused on trying to connect the level of neurological phenomena to cosmological phenomena and quantum phenomena and relativistic phenomena will.... See the disagreeability
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386613 - 07/06/23 01:07 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Forget about wavelengths and just think about oscillations. Now plot your oscillations onto a Cartesian coordinate plane and tell me what your units are. You can do pretty good math when you define the various axes to mean particular things but you'll find that they don't even map on to each other at the physical level. This is very.. not secret? Like it's something anybody can find out if they want to
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386616 - 07/06/23 01:08 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Morrow said: I mean I guess. I have patients disagree with me all the time about the fact that they need to be drinking less alcohol or eating less sugar. Maybe they're right but inevitably they end up with cirrhosis and jaundice or diabetes and amputations.....
There's certain things that are more disagreeable than others and they're, in my experience, precisely complimentary to the kinds of things that most people think are the most disagreeable.
wrt the actual topic at hand? you've been both confounding & conflating things unhelpfully here. as in the above quote as a response to mine:

Logic has no footing without good sense, and you sir seem to lack the present wherewithal to notice the shared footing of the ubiquitous Mind in our species.
And so there's nothing more that can be said at this very moment that I care to add beyond I bid thee a farewell, toodaloo, and goodbye until next time.
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sudly
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386617 - 07/06/23 01:09 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386618 - 07/06/23 01:10 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Logic has no footing without good sense,
I actually disagree 100%. I think that the concept of wavelength has no footing without any sense, "good" or not. It seems entirely possible that logic requires no sense whatsoever. Gnostic traditions very much speak to this.
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.
I'll leave it to you to figure out why those boxes can be denoted by Unicode but cannot be copied and pasted.
They weren't boxes: https://biblehub.com/text/john/1-1.htm
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Because of my background in logic and linguistics and language teaching and so forth it's very obvious to me that logic is logic. There's only one and operator. There's only one if operator. There's only one then operator.
You can create any set of symbols you want to denote The operators but they are what they are
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386621 - 07/06/23 01:17 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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wrt the actual topic at hand?
the hard problem of consciousness obviously??????? Not quite sure how anybody lost sight of that but yeah that was the topic at hand. I guess maybe forgetting about it is one of the ways that people pretend it doesn't exist?
Sometimes it seems like it's easier for other people to forget things than to remember them and sometimes it seems like it's the opposite for me. I do a lot of things to actively try to forget and still fail often
Falling asleep every day is an easy way to selectively forget things and remember other things.
Edited by morrowasted (07/06/23 01:43 AM)
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