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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27451280 - 08/31/21 05:34 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I have looked at the chart several times and have yet to digest anything in a way that might suggest I understand your idea's here.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27451497 - 08/31/21 08:22 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
thank you for trying, sorry it does not have meaning for you, did you study biology?
this chart requires some understanding of neuron types and the general design of the nervous system which is not depicted anatomically.




Minimally.  I was more into philosophy, psych, sociology etc.  Although if we are talking about school then I wouldn't say I studied anything rigorously or w/ much degree of urgency.  It's just the truth.  I mean I got the degrees and all that but nobody would accuse me of being a scholar.  I am currently more intentional when it comes to learning now that I am a little older and am able to parse specific niche topics.  However I am not sure the hard sciences are going to be a thing.  Probably some Jungian psychology eventually who knows.


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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: sudly] * 1
    #27467047 - 09/13/21 04:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Being conscious is not body.  Influenced or even determined by body - sure.  But not body. "out of body" does not inherently antagonize body.  It's the eternal mind-body dualism.  I am a dualist.  There are so many examples of superimposed truths.  the individual and the crowd.  the local culture and the regional culture.  the genetics and the conditioning.  Real systems superimposed onto the same medium simultaneously.


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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: sudly] * 1
    #27468243 - 09/14/21 03:08 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I'm just saying, if anyone should mention out of body, that mention is out of the scope of evolution, and to have the view that there is out of body, is anti-evolution, something that suggests evolution stopped at one point in humans, and out of body took over.




At some point humanity went beyond a purely instinct existence.  That's when I'd say we left classical evolution. 

My logical proof for this is that consciousness is greater than the sum of it's parts when it moves beyond pure instinct.  And this greater-ness alters reality in a way where it (consciousness) is primary and not reality.  Because the essence of evolution is that reality is the primary driving force.  It's a ground up approach.  And fair enough until you get into the realm of animals that possess certain forms of conscious experience that are capable of the above.


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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27469245 - 09/15/21 11:13 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

C) Humans have not gone beyond instinct consciousness at all - nothing specifically evolution-wise (although adaptive ingenuity is related somewhat - largely we have needed it mostly to adapt to the threats that other humans present as a subset of all of nature in our niche - the rest of the threats are absorbed mostly by social organization (of which science and medicine contribute a lot))







What about any of this would you primarily relate to an instinct that resembles anything like a natural adaptive mechanism?

Sure, we may have not altered our genetics a whole lot relative to our ancestors for example but like you said consciousness is a different topic than evolution.  I was addressing the proposition from sudly if you want to look at that.


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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27469336 - 09/15/21 12:44 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

But is it (consciousness) the instinct of what would be attributed to an evolutionary understanding of modern humanity?  Have we not evolved consciously in a way that begins to deviate from Darwinism? 

Social institutions can suppress the conscious/evolutionary procedure that would ordinarily feed into Darwin's thing.  And yet people get utterly crazy and prosper because of it sometimes.  What I am saying is that how can you equate mechanisms of modern humanity w/ the mechanisms of a less strange animal and their relationship to the environment and nature?  I just don't see how you couldn't say at a certain point, "Well, the talking monkeys have really done it this time.  They are clearly a bunch of space cadets now"


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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27469432 - 09/15/21 02:10 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:  Scientific studies of that nature definitely help to understand experience.  Seems like modern people are more geared to refer to the "data" or the "studies" which have become somewhat evolved compared to the dark ages.  And those who deny the science are shamed hardcore.  But we're still figuring it all out and making alot of mistakes


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