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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: mycot]
    #27445009 - 08/27/21 11:11 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
From this side of the world I really struggle to understand American politics.
At one time the Conservatives were the Right-wingers, the Establishment, the people that the counterculture fought against. Now they are the radicals.
The Dems being leftist were more embraced by hippies and the counterculture as its values were in closer alignment than the opposition. They were the radicals. Now they look like they are toeing the line, become conservative in manner, become Rightwing in other words.
So what the fuck happened ?
Did you guys swap shoes or something ?
It's really confusing.



:whathesaid:

I agree.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: mycot]
    #27445022 - 08/27/21 11:15 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not even talking about whatever your last post is on about.
I'm asking about American politics as a whole. The whole kit and kabodle, or the whole picture that's presented to the world.




 
  I would like to know what's wrong with way your interpreting shit ? Not liking the govt or opposing mandates does not make you liberal or a hippie .
  I'm not sure what you are even talking about , I think the way you are interpreting things is flawed .


--------------------


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Offlinemycot
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27445029 - 08/27/21 11:23 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Too bad.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #27445030 - 08/27/21 11:23 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I think he's talking about exactly what he said - that liberals now embrace the establishment.  If the establishment says "more war", liberals cheer "Hooray, more war!"

I've pointed this out many times already, but liberals here attacked me with "but Fal, war can be good!"


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: mycot]
    #27445032 - 08/27/21 11:26 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:

At one time the Conservatives were the Right-wingers, the Establishment, the people that the counterculture fought against. Now they are the radicals.




It's simple

Narcissists and pathological liars double down and go down a rabbit hole to not be wrong.

They'd suck a dick just to prove you wrong if it went that far.






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Offlinemycot
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27445038 - 08/27/21 11:29 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I think he's talking about exactly what he said - that liberals now embrace the establishment.  If the establishment says "more war", liberals cheer "Hooray, more war!"

I've pointed this out many times already, but liberals here attacked me with "but Fal, war can be good!"




Yes, this is the type of thing that I am talking about and more than just war.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27445039 - 08/27/21 11:29 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

hat liberals now embrace the establishment.  If the establishment says "more war", liberals cheer "Hooray, more war!"




  That's happening ?  Biden is saying more war ?


--------------------


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: mycot]
    #27445042 - 08/27/21 11:33 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, this is the type of thing that I am talking about and more than just war.




  Who's the establishment ? Lets name them , having a  nameless boogie man to blame shit on is way to convenient to someone's argument.


--------------------


Edited by Psilynut2 (08/27/21 11:42 AM)


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: mycot] * 1
    #27445044 - 08/27/21 11:33 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
I'm not even talking about whatever your last post is on about.
I'm asking about American politics as a whole. The whole kit and kabodle, or the whole picture that's presented to the world.




High profile republicans are now prancing around like rebel cowboys because they don’t care if old people die because “freedom”, while they cash in on their corporate relationships and proceed to fuck over the people who vote for them and die on a ventilator after buying into their rhetoric.. They strongly believe in a businesses right to not allow homosexuals in their business for religious purposes, but are outraged if a business decides to require customers or guests comply with a simple public health measure.

(Most) High profile democrats like to portray themselves as Bernie Sanders mixed with Greta Thunberg but then suddenly go silent when legislation that looks like it may actually result in change comes up. Wolf in sheep’s clothing kind of deal, with maybe a handful of actual good people among them (still just about a handful more than the other side)


The anti-vax thing is funny because it used to be super common among the liberal soccer mom types. Now that COVID made trump look bad or whatever it’s become a republican thing. It’s all so stupid it’s difficult to really talk about


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Offlinemycot
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27445052 - 08/27/21 11:37 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Who's the establishment ?




You tell me.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: mycot]
    #27445058 - 08/27/21 11:43 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not the one scapegoating them . Whoever they are . I thought Biden was the establishment ?


--------------------


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27445059 - 08/27/21 11:43 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
That's happening ?  Biden is saying more war ?



Watch the video I just posted"

"Were gonna have to go after ISIS.  I'm glad the President said that 'we're gonna hunt 'em down and make them pay a price for what they did'"


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: feevers]
    #27445069 - 08/27/21 11:51 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Quote:

mycot said:
I'm not even talking about whatever your last post is on about.
I'm asking about American politics as a whole. The whole kit and kabodle, or the whole picture that's presented to the world.




High profile republicans are now prancing around like rebel cowboys because they don’t care if old people die because “freedom”, while they cash in on their corporate relationships and proceed to fuck over the people who vote for them and die on a ventilator after buying into their rhetoric.. They strongly believe in a businesses right to not allow homosexuals in their business for religious purposes, but are outraged if a business decides to require customers or guests comply with a simple public health measure.

(Most) High profile democrats like to portray themselves as Bernie Sanders mixed with Greta Thunberg but then suddenly go silent when legislation that looks like it may actually result in change comes up. Wolf in sheep’s clothing kind of deal, with maybe a handful of actual good people among them (still just about a handful more than the other side)


The anti-vax thing is funny because it used to be super common among the liberal soccer mom types. Now that COVID made trump look bad or whatever it’s become a republican thing. It’s all so stupid it’s difficult to really talk about




An interesting response though not much clearer. Thanks. :smile:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #27445071 - 08/27/21 11:52 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Who's the establishment ?



I provided a definition for establishment many times.  After some discussion, here is how I currently define it.  I'm open to other definitions, but few people challenge this.

"An elite group of very wealthy people who attempt to use political influence to increase their wealth.

Edit:  Examples include support for the military industrial complex and more war, support for lower taxes on the wealthy, support for private health insurance, etc.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (08/27/21 12:01 PM)


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Offlinemycot
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27445078 - 08/27/21 12:02 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
I thought Biden was the establishment ?




So Biden is the establishmet representing right-wing thinking ?


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: mycot]
    #27445100 - 08/27/21 12:20 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

An elite group of very wealthy people who attempt to use political influence to increase their wealth.

Edit:  Examples include support for the military industrial complex and more war, support for lower taxes on the wealthy, support for private health insurance, etc.





    All I asked was for some names to be put the elite group of very wealthy people  that are doing what you say .
  There can't be that many .


--------------------


Edited by Psilynut2 (08/27/21 12:25 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Psilynut2] * 2
    #27445179 - 08/27/21 01:06 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
  All I asked was for some names to be put the elite group of very wealthy people  that are doing what you say .
  There can't be that many .



There's a ton of people who fit that criteria.  And their names are always evolving.  The Koch family, Rupert Murdoch, Jeff Bezos, etc.  You don't think rich people try to influence Congress to increase their weatlh?



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27445398 - 08/27/21 04:46 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
I thought Biden was the establishment ?




So Biden is the establishmet representing right-wing thinking ?




Biden is a centrist. He emabraces certain elements of right and left wing thinking when politically expedient.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27445424 - 08/27/21 05:14 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I provided a definition for establishment many times.  After some discussion, here is how I currently define it.  I'm open to other definitions, but few people challenge this.

"An elite group of very wealthy people who attempt to use political influence to increase their wealth."




Few challenges is still more than zero challenges:

"It's a pretty poor critique of how the Establishment functions, considering it excludes things like the vast majority of nepotism." Link


Better definitions were also provided, which you acknowledged and agreed too:

"- By the Establishment, I do not only mean the centres of official power—though they are certainly part of it—but rather the whole matrix of official and social relations within which power is exercised. The exercise of power in the United Kingdom (more specifically, in England) cannot be understood unless it is recognized that it is exercised socially.


- A group or class of people having institutional authority within a society, esp those who control the civil service, the government, the armed forces, and the Church: usually identified with a conservative outlook.


- The Establishment is not something that has tangible existence. It's a term for the cumulative effects of professional and personal relationships and networks among the ruling class. No one is 'looking out for the money of the Establishment', they're all a bunch of rich greedy fucks who understand that they benefit personally from cooperating within the ruling class. That sort of 'class consciousness' is what leads to the Establishment.
"
Link1 Link2






Considering that every one of these definitions goes beyond political influence, I'm curious why you agreed to these challenges while continuing to hold to your flawed definition.


--------------------


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27445479 - 08/27/21 06:10 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
From this side of the world I really struggle to understand American politics.
At one time the Conservatives were the Right-wingers, the Establishment, the people that the counterculture fought against. Now they are the radicals.
The Dems being leftist were more embraced by hippies and the counterculture as its values were in closer alignment than the opposition. They were the radicals. Now they look like they are toeing the line, become conservative in manner, become Rightwing in other words.
So what the fuck happened ?
Did you guys swap shoes or something ?
It's really confusing.




Meh, this is basically the 'conservatives are the new punk' baloney that began circulating during the Trump presidency. If you reduce the political landscape to Democrats vs Conservatives then you're bound to run into some confusing contradictions.

What are some of these radical or countercultural positions that you see Conservatives supporting?


--------------------


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