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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
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Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals
#27439550 - 08/23/21 01:07 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals šø August 22, 2021 - The Guardian
Pair allegedly charged ā¬150 ($176 USD) for āancestralā ceremonies involving psychotropic substances
Spanish police have arrested a couple over accusations they were carrying out rituals ā billed online as āinternational ancestral medicineā ā involving an array of banned substances ranging from toad venom to ayahuasca.
The couple, aged 42 and 38, allegedly ran an association that performed ceremonies involving psychotropic substances for as much as ā¬150 (Ā£129) ($176) a session. Weekend retreats were also on offer at a cost of up to ā¬350 (Ā£300) ($410).
Police said they had analysed videos of the rituals posted online by the couple. āClients were observed consuming in liquid form or inhaling psychotropics given to them by him [the master of the ceremonies] while she obstructed their breathing in order to retain the smoke inside of them for longer,ā the Guardia Civil said in a statement. āAs a consequence of this practice, clients often fell to the ground in convulsions and presented serious alterations of consciousness.ā
Video released by police appears to show the couple administering a substance to a man, supporting him as he swiftly falls to the ground. As the man lies on the floor, the couple kneel over him and he plays the maracas while she beats a hand drum.
Raids on the coupleās home and association headquarters near the city of Alicante turned up 97 substances that contravene the 1971 United Nations convention on psychotropic substances, police said.
Samples from a Bufo alvarius toad were found in a safe in the master bedroom, said police. Also known as the Sonoran desert toad, the amphibianās secretions contain a psychedelic substance known as 5-MeO-DMT, which medical researchers have studied as a possible treatment for depression and anxiety.
Its ritualistic use burst into view last year after Spanish police arrested three people, including a well-known pornographic actor, in connection with the death of a photographer who was believed to have died after inhaling toad venom during a shamanic ceremony.
Police said on Saturday that they had also found the mushroom Amanita muscaria, which transforms into a potent hallucinogen when dried, and ibogaine, a drug from a plant that grows in the rainforests of Gabon and which has been linked to slowing heart rates to dangerously low levels and interacting with the organās electrical signals.
The couple ādid not possess any professional qualifications or trainingā that could allow them to supply psychoactive or hallucinogenic substances to people, police added. Both have been charged with violating public health laws.
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CreonAntigone
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: veggie]
#27439628 - 08/23/21 02:10 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wow, a lot to unpack in this case!
Quote:
Police said they had analysed videos of the rituals posted online by the couple. āClients were observed consuming in liquid form or inhaling psychotropics given to them by him [the master of the ceremonies] while she obstructed their breathing in order to retain the smoke inside of them for longer,ā the Guardia Civil said in a statement. āAs a consequence of this practice, clients often fell to the ground in convulsions and presented serious alterations of consciousness.ā
First off, if you're going to be doing something and you're not sure if it's legal, probably best not to post a video of it online linked to your real name.
Second off, she obstructed their breathing? Someone could've easily died from this. And then later it says they kneeled on people after they fell. Some of these drugs aren't physically dangerous but they sure can be if a person is trying to stop you from breathing while you're using them. People definitely shouldn't defend these people as their actions are extremely dangerous.
Also:
Quote:
Raids on the coupleās home and association headquarters near the city of Alicante turned up 97 substances that contravene the 1971 United Nations convention on psychotropic substances .... Samples from a Bufo alvarius toad ... Amanita muscaria, ... ibogaine
Do they need every single hallucinogenic substance in the world? I'm surprised they didn't find bags of glue as well. Why the heck do they need so many different kinds of hallucinogens? And if you're using so many hallucinogens, why do you need to obstruct their breathing and kneel on them? These people just seem unhinged. Also, both toad and muscaria can potentially be dangerous and should never be handled by someone who doesn't know what they're doing, such as this couple.
Edited by CreonAntigone (08/23/21 02:12 PM)
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Failboat
Fuck Up
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27439900 - 08/23/21 05:28 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Convulsions aren't entirely out of place, but restricting peoples bodies is bad mkay. I reccomend the user holds their inhaled vapor as long as they can, but nobody is choking them out on top of it all.
This is a good example for all those silly kids out there, don't collect drugs. Each one carries another sentence and the more you get the fewer you can get away from.
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The Thing
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Registered: 03/01/18
Posts: 1,539
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27439925 - 08/23/21 05:55 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Video released by police appears to show the couple administering a substance to a man, supporting him as he swiftly falls to the ground. As the man lies on the floor, the couple kneel over him and he plays the maracas while she beats a hand drum.
Watch the video, there is no "kneeling on someone". I see a man kneeling over someone with a hand placed on his chest in a comforting manner.
I would love to have 97 different hallucinogens in my pantry.
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sonoramo
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: veggie]
#27439950 - 08/23/21 06:13 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Best line of the whole story:
Quote:
The couple ādid not possess any professional qualifications or trainingā that could allow them to supply psychoactive or hallucinogenic substances to people, police added. Both have been charged with violating public health laws.
Wonder what would constitute "professional qualifications or training"?? If they did have training, would the Spanish police be OK with it??
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frikiriki
Shroom Nerd

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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: sonoramo]
#27440026 - 08/23/21 07:11 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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My thoughts exactly. How does one even acquire proper training in a society that shuns the practice?
We resort to dangerous options when we are not educated and allowed to practice.
This is a cultural practice that mainstream society has been trying to eradicate, calling it "dangerous". But i then ask... are you (the government) any less dangerous?
Just because the government officials tell you the story (you never hear the other side) --- do you believe it?
Take into account that Ayahuasca and plant medicine is very ancient and has been handed down through cultural practices...when done properly it does have value.
This is connection to (whatever name, creation, god, yahweh, mother, spirit)...And I think that disconnecting people from their religious practice (when it is not harmful of others) is not fair and downright wrong.
The government & media will word/phrase their statements in a way that serves them...
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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: frikiriki]
#27440101 - 08/23/21 08:16 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do they need every single hallucinogenic substance in the world? I'm surprised they didn't find bags of glue as well. Why the heck do they need so many
Other than the basics, food shelter and such, people don't really NEED much of anything. If you live in the west, you have more than you need. Why does your computer have so much memory? Do you really need that much? When you point and mock these people you also point at and mock yourself
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halfass mycology
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gone-pear-shaped
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: GenericHero]
#27440210 - 08/23/21 10:19 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you are not in some sort of awakened state (something like the Buddha experienced), you damn well have needs beyond food and shelter. Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a decent representation.
And if you refuse to see any overlap between "need" and "want", I think you're just playing games with words rather than actually communicating. Hell, I don't even "need" the medicines I take, but they improve my quality of life.
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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
#27440239 - 08/23/21 11:02 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I haven't refused anything. You use want and need like they are equivalent. They are not. Sure there is some overlap but not to the point where these are equivalent sentences. Watch, I'll use one of your own creations. Why do you need to kneel on their chest vs. Why do you want to kneel on their chest. Or I don't need the medicine I take vs. I don't want the medicine I take. They don't mean the same thing. I did list more than food shelter, I added and such at the end, implying thelist is longer than what was listed. Playing games and communicating are not mutually exclusive.
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halfass mycology
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
#27440244 - 08/23/21 11:05 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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There are many, many kinds of drugs and kowtows to ritualized behavior, at the western pharmacy. How many of you put golden stamps of approval and frame your own words on the wall?
In my neck of the woods, that is going to be a national chain with no need for plain, old-fashioned, ordinary employees. (I know one with pink hair, who claims to have been prostituted as a child.) On the other hand, they'll let you starve to death if they can't find reason in your permanent record to believe that you're criminally insane or degenerate.
Iboga survivors are resisting a state monopoly on a state drug habit.
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: veggie] 1
#27440270 - 08/23/21 11:55 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sounds like they had no idea what they were doing. Calling this a "ritual" is a stretch. They just made up some bullshit to sell people on an "experience" rather than people taking it at home (which would have been a lot better than going through whatever these idiots had in mind). Preventing people from breathing until they collapsed is one of the most idiotic and irresponsible things I think I've ever read.
This is the problem with this whole "ritual" bullshit that places like these sell people on. The vast majority of the time it's just people making shit up and selling it to gullible people. Many of them have no idea what the hell they're doing and don't give a shit if something goes wrong. I remember years ago reading about places like this in south america that if something went wrong they'd just drag the person out into the jungle and leave them there.
Sure, there are probably people who actually know stuff that's been passed down like Maria Sabina did, but how many people like that are there in the world today? Probably only a handful, none of whom are likely to sell to tourists. And you wouldn't get anything out of that experience that you wouldn't already get at home anyway.
You'd be a hundred times better off tripping with the average shroomery member than with these con artists. Someone calling themselves a shaman claiming to give "ancestral medicine ceremonies" is just trying to separate you from your wallet.
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/21
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
#27440438 - 08/24/21 05:23 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
gone-pear-shaped said: If you are not in some sort of awakened state (something like the Buddha experienced), you damn well have needs beyond food and shelter. Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a decent representation.
And if you refuse to see any overlap between "need" and "want", I think you're just playing games with words rather than actually communicating. Hell, I don't even "need" the medicines I take, but they improve my quality of life.
Let me clarify. Yes we need medicines, some people definitely need psychedelic medicines. But this post clearly indicates they're using medicines with physical risk, such as amanita. So when I asked if they 'need' them, I'm questioning why they are stacking so many hallucinogens which users of this site won't even use due to the risks. Amanita can kill you if prepared wrong.
Giving dangerous medications without knowing the risks is one of the worst things you can do. Just because it's a psychedelic it doesn't mean it's OK when people recklessly poison others. We criticize doctors who give children heavy doses of antipsychotics because of the damage it can do. So let's criticize people who give drugs that carry intense physical risks such as amanita when they have no sense of the risks or consequences.
So no they don't need 97 different hallucinogens. Just mushrooms is plenty. People are free to expand and try other ones - but if you're going to administer them to others, you better not administer the dangerous ones unless you're capable of doing a full medical workup and saving them if they go into respiratory arrest.
Edited by CreonAntigone (08/24/21 05:35 AM)
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The Thing
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Registered: 03/01/18
Posts: 1,539
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27440465 - 08/24/21 06:08 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well i never viewed Amanita muscaria as deadly but anyhow you realize that the article is actually 2 separate stories being lumped together right??
They are separated by a year no less and involve seperate people most likely with separate levels of understanding about risks etc.
This is classic news reporting making one thing seem even worse by combining it with a worse story that is semi related.
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Failboat
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: The Thing]
#27440726 - 08/24/21 09:50 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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orison
mcfluffysugarnuts


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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: Failboat]
#27440728 - 08/24/21 09:52 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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that maraca bit ..
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: orison]
#27440737 - 08/24/21 09:56 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's ok with me; my Obamacare doctors are from Cuba.
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Failboat
Fuck Up
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: durian_2008]
#27440758 - 08/24/21 10:16 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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If I'm paying someone to dose me I'd like an IV from a nurse.
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sonoramo
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: The Thing]
#27440856 - 08/24/21 11:14 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Thing said: Well i never viewed Amanita muscaria as deadly but anyhow you realize that the article is actually 2 separate stories being lumped together right??
They are separated by a year no less and involve seperate people most likely with separate levels of understanding about risks etc...
No, I didn't realize that. What are the two stories? It looks like a single story when I read it.
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The Thing
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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: sonoramo]
#27441246 - 08/24/21 03:49 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its ritualistic use burst into view last year after Spanish police arrested three people, including a well-known pornographic actor, in connection with the death of a photographer who was believed to have died after inhaling toad venom during a shamanic ceremony.
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

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Re: Spanish couple arrested over toad-venom and ayahuasca rituals [Re: The Thing]
#27442151 - 08/25/21 09:06 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Thing said: Well i never viewed Amanita muscaria as deadly but anyhow you realize that the article is actually 2 separate stories being lumped together right??
There's another story mentioned but the part about amanita refers to the couple.
Quote:
Police said on Saturday that they had also found the mushroom Amanita muscaria
So it was on Saturday. And then the line after that goes back to referring to the 'couple' so it is the same case. The only part of this that refers to a different case is that one line about the 3 people.
Edited by CreonAntigone (08/25/21 09:10 AM)
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