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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: peleg]
    #2746416 - 05/30/04 11:08 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Faith is no evidence.
Faith is the wish for something to exist together with the possibility that it exists.Nothing less, nothing more. Unless you have proof that the parallel universe theory is valid.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: peleg]
    #2746429 - 05/30/04 11:11 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Yup, I agree Shroomerious. Faith is dictated a lot by people's own desires. They want to believe that they will last an eternity. They want to believe that there's some personal creative force that shaped them from his own image. They want to believe in a blissfull afterlife. They want to believe that no matter what they do, God is always with them, and they will be forgiven. I think this is why modern Christianity is so popular, especially in our Western society built around needs, desires, and comforts in between the stress-filled will to accomplish artificial success of fame and wealth. This isn't an insult towards modern Christianity, but rather just my views on the matter, and I don't mean to offend anyone.

If however, a faith like Christianity makes you feel important and comforts you, and this is what you want, then by all means continue practicing it. It doesn't matter what you believe because we are all aprt of the eternal truth, even if none of us truly know what it is.

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OfflineFrog
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: deff]
    #2747013 - 05/30/04 02:01 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

There's another view to why people believe. I personally don't believe just because it makes my life more bearable. I believe because I have seen too many signs in my life that give rise to such beliefs. In other words, after some of the things I have experienced, how could I not believe???


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Frog]
    #2747052 - 05/30/04 02:13 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Frog, I've red many of your posts when you say that and in all the cases your so called signs are just things that happen to all of us but you feel that they are signs.I am not saying that I know all of you r signs but from what I've red from you they are not signs but could very well be just synchronicity.REALLY millions of things like what you describe as signs happen to me every day and I don't feel that they are gods ways to show that he loves me if I remember correctly one of your posts. The one with your car and the keys and the one who helped blah blah blah. Things like that happen to all of us every day.If you want to interpret them as signs then go on... I don't get what the problem is with christians its like they wear blinkers or something.THINK.All I'm saying is believe what you want to believe but please at least be so open minded to know that there is a great possibility that you might be wrong.I know that your religion makes you happy but we had this conversation in the past if I remember correctly and you just don't seem to learn anything. I don't get it...


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Offlinepeleg
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2747184 - 05/30/04 03:02 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

it takes an open mind to step out in faith


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"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: peleg]
    #2747315 - 05/30/04 04:00 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

It takes exactly the opposite. A mind full of terror and insecutity.


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Offlinesleepysmoker
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2748280 - 05/30/04 10:40 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

maybe it takes both

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OfflineFrog
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2748399 - 05/30/04 11:11 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
Frog, I've red many of your posts when you say that and in all the cases your so called signs are just things that happen to all of us but you feel that they are signs.I am not saying that I know all of you r signs but from what I've red from you they are not signs but could very well be just synchronicity.REALLY millions of things like what you describe as signs happen to me every day and I don't feel that they are gods ways to show that he loves me if I remember correctly one of your posts. The one with your car and the keys and the one who helped blah blah blah. Things like that happen to all of us every day.If you want to interpret them as signs then go on... I don't get what the problem is with christians its like they wear blinkers or something.THINK.All I'm saying is believe what you want to believe but please at least be so open minded to know that there is a great possibility that you might be wrong.I know that your religion makes you happy but we had this conversation in the past if I remember correctly and you just don't seem to learn anything. I don't get it...




Shroomerious, if you remember that post, which was entitled "WTF", I also said I was looking for a reason that was not "God".  I mean, keep in mind that I believe that God is behind everything, but I also believe that there is probably a logical explanation for everything.  No one came up with anything that made sense.

But it probably is synchronicity.  Maybe I'm getting synchronicity confused with signs.

Um, where does synchronicity come from??? 

:grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineFrog
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2748416 - 05/30/04 11:13 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
It takes exactly the opposite. A  mind full of terror and insecutity.




I realize that probably most people believe in God and heaven and hell out of fear.  I did too, when I was younger.  I no longer believe in a God of hell.  I believe in a loving God.

'Course, you're going to hell.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Offlinepeleg
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Frog]
    #2748610 - 05/31/04 12:07 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

this probally needs it's own thread, but Christ Himself made many refrences to hell....No it's not God's will that any should perish. But for one to live by there desires (hence the devil) they will fight it out with there desires (demons) in hell..There is a constant war going on for your soul and those that have been given eyes to "see" know this (ya'll know who you are) the devil will do anything to keep you from beliving by pulling doubts out of his bag of devises'.His main goal is to keep you in bondage by his lies, but Christ has come to give life more abundently..like Bob Marely sang, been down low, let me tell you what i know, keep on knocking but ya can't come in, can't ya understand ya been living in sin...


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"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....

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OfflineFrog
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: peleg]
    #2748620 - 05/31/04 12:11 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

ba da bing!

:thumbup:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Frog]
    #2749237 - 05/31/04 06:26 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Listen, you say you believe and you believe.......in a loving god...synchronicity is synchronicity and that's it.I don't know where it came from or what created it or if it is purely our minds term because we can't feel more dimensions.If it is inflicted by a higher being to make it seem like synchronicity I don't know and neither do you. You believe in a god, purely created by your mind. You just speculate.This is all a speculation nothing more! I don't get how you can not aknowledge the fact that there may be no god.The bible is a book edited in its present form by siners as you'd call them.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2749241 - 05/31/04 06:31 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I don't get how you can not aknowledge the fact that there may be no god.




By that I mean no loving god as you say that is focused on to you(plural). Sure,propably there are higher beings but what makes you think that they love you or the even know that you exist?You,don't know who created us, you just speculate.If you did and you had real proof,if anyone had real proof the world would be turned upside down.You want to believe and so you do.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2749605 - 05/31/04 10:46 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
Listen, you say you believe and you believe.......in a loving god...synchronicity is synchronicity and that's it.I don't know where it came from or what created it or if it is purely our minds term because we can't feel more dimensions.If it is inflicted by a higher being to make it seem like synchronicity I don't know and neither do you. You believe in a god, purely created by your mind. You just speculate.This is all a speculation nothing more! I don't get how you can not aknowledge the fact that there may be no god.The bible is a book edited in its present form by siners as you'd call them.




I agree.  It might all be crap.  But I'm not the nihilist that you are.  I have decided that there is a God.  What's it to you?  How does that affect your world?  Will the sun still come up for you tomorrow?  :grin:

Believing in "synchronicity" could be just as much crap as believing in God.  You might be wrong, too.  Synchronicity might just be coincidence.  Why do you attach so much importance to it?  Are  you delusional?  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

Edited by Frog (05/31/04 11:00 AM)

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Offlinepeleg
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2749611 - 05/31/04 10:49 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

an evil and adulturious generation seeks for signs, i tell you the truth no sign shall be given but that of Jonah the prophet......The Bible was written by men like me for men like me under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.....


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"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: peleg]
    #2749686 - 05/31/04 11:37 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Peleg, really you are so full of shit, I can't believe you called my generation evil...Evil?Get a life!The bible was written by men like you but was edited by bastards.

Frog, I am not wrong and that's the end of it. And the reason is that which I said a million times. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN SYNCHRONICITY. I do not know if it works. I do not believe in something because I have not seen proof for it. I never ever said that I believe in synchronicity. I allways say the "maybe" and "could be".How exactly have you decided that there is a god?How?You decided.....You speculate that there is a god. Nihilism is a good thing and it is by itself a strong value but up to a point only. Will the sun still come up for me tommorow? It will come up as it always had. Whats in it for me?This is your problem.You desperatelly need to believe that someone takes care of you.I don't. You condemn people of paying too much attention to the "material" world but you don't see that what you seek by saying "whats in it to you me etc" is merely an extension of the same philosophy of life.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2749717 - 05/31/04 11:57 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

I have decided FOR ME, that there is a God.  I never said that you have to believe in God, too. 

Nihilism has some good points.  I agree. 

I think it's funny when you "nonbelievers" say that us believers have a problem for believing the way we believe.  Why do you have to come to that conclusion?  What is it, in you, that is so insecure that you have to find fault with me for my beliefs?  I just simply believe.  How does this upset your world?  Does my belief make you somehow feel uncomfortable?

As to the material world...I am not condemning anyone for seeking materialism.  But I'm trying, in my life, to remove the importance of it.  Or at least I don't see the importance of it any more.  It's nice to have things, but they're not important.  But sometimes I get caught up in it, because of others being caught up in it. 

So I'm trying to find a balance.  I'm trying to sort it all out.  I have been involved with people recently who are into materialism and money and put a lot of importance on it.  That's fine, for them, but not for me.  It causes anxiety in my life.  So I have to distance myself from that.  For me, not for them.  And not for you, either. 
Seems like my beliefs cause you a lot of discomfort.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Frog]
    #2749863 - 05/31/04 01:36 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, here are my points:

0)Discomfort is good.Out of it comes comfort.The sole reason of my discomfort is that I know that you know that you don't have enough evidence for what you believe and that you believe only to avoid fear and to have the prospect of a better life which consequently makes your life in the present better because really this is allthis is about.

1)I do not have a problem with you believing anything you want if it makes you happy.

2)I know that you never said that I have to believe in god but in all I don't see enough proof for you or me to believe in god exceptt insecurity.You are a bit confused here.You are insecure because you want to feel that something big is watching over you as you are constantly saying and not I because as I already say I don't have a problem with you believing anything you want as long as it doesn't negatively affect my everyday life.

3)What I am saying is that you must have a problem to believe what you believe,that problem being insecurity-it's not a bad thing, because you have no evidence.

4)Please answer realistically and open-mindly because I am really bored of repeating the same thing over and over again.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2749931 - 05/31/04 02:05 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
Ok, here are my points:

0)Discomfort is good.Out of it comes comfort.The sole reason of my discomfort is that I know that you know that you don't have enough evidence for what you believe and that you believe only to avoid fear and to have the prospect of a better life which consequently makes your life in the present better because really this is allthis is about.




So you have discomfort over my beliefs.  Very interesting.  And you presume that I believe beccause I am afraid.  More interesting. 

Quote:

1)I do not have a problem with you believing anything you want if it makes you happy.




Gee, thanks, Shroomerious.

Quote:

2)I know that you never said that I have to believe in god but in all I don't see enough proof for you or me to believe in god exceptt insecurity.




So?  You still don't have to believe.  :grin:

And I see you are making more presumptions.  How do you know I am insecure?

Quote:

You are a bit confused here.You are insecure because you want to feel that something big is watching over you as you are constantly saying and not I because as I already say I don't have a problem with you believing anything you want as long as it doesn't negatively affect my everyday life.




More presumptions.  How do you know that I am confused?  How do you know I "want" to feel something is watching over me? 

I don't "want" someone to watch over me.  I believe that God has been watching over me, based on looking back over my life and things that have happened.  During my life, I did not feel anyone was watching over me.  So it's not that I "want" a god to watch over me cuz I'm so afraid.  I see NOW, in retrospect, that there has been someone watching over me.

Quote:

3)What I am saying is that you must have a problem to believe what you believe,that problem being insecurity-it's not a bad thing, because you have no evidence.




Come meet me, Shroomerious, and let's discuss my insecurities in person.  I'm an attorney.  I battle in court against other attorneys.  I kick some pretty good ass.  To what insecurities are you referring?  Someone who believes in God because of insecurities doesen't strike me as a person who would kick ass in court.  :grin:

I have all the evidence that I need.  You can't see the evidence.  I'm sorry for you.  Very sad.  Maybe limited intelligence?

Quote:

4)Please answer realistically and open-mindly because I am really bored of repeating the same thing over and over again.




Go read through all my posts.  I'm sure that somewhere in there, you'll find plenty of reasons why I believe in God. 

It's mostly based on faith, Shroomerious.  I don't expect you to understand, because you don't believe. 

But yes, when I die, I could possibly find out that there was no God.  So what?  You'll be right and I'll be wrong.  Again, so what?  So tell me, how does it hurt you that I believe in God?  You haven't answered that question yet.  How is your life affected? 

If you're so right, why aren't you just sitting back, thinking how cute it is that we Christians believe in a non-existent fairy-tale God?  Why aren't you just chuckling away?  Why does it annoy you?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: reading life's litte signs (and the importance of faith) [Re: Frog]
    #2750267 - 05/31/04 04:35 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Frog I can not believe this you are saying the same things. Again you say that you believe in god and I don't whereas what I am really saying is that I don't know.That's it.

i DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOPUU BELIEVING IN YOUR FAIRY-TALE GOD BUT THE THING IS THAT REALLY OPEN0MINDED CHRISTIANS AKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT THEY MIGHT BE WRONG AND THEY BELIEVE BECAUSE THE WANT TO BELIEVE.

i RED YOUR POSTS AND THE ONLY REASON i FIND IS INSECURITY.And you have accepted it in one of your posts saying that its nice to know that there is someone to keep an eye on you.

The attorney thing, please go watch The Wall from Pink Floyd.





AND FINALLY I KNOW THAT YOU REALLY ARE CONFUSED BECAUSE YOU SAY DIFFERENT THINGS ON EACH OCCASION.I REMEMBER A POST WHERE YOU SAID 2 EXACTLY DIFFERENT THINGS AND WHEN I MENTIONED IT YOU JUST DIDN'T ANSWER.HOW CONVINIENT.

Lets finish this here won't we?What do you say?Because I really don't think we're getting nowhere because even when we do then after some time you say the same old views again.


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