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Offlineparadoxlost
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27419918 - 08/08/21 03:11 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
Antigenic drift is a kind of genetic variation in viruses, arising from the accumulation of mutations in the virus genes that code for virus-surface proteins that host antibodies recognize. This results in a new strain of virus particles that is not effectively inhibited by the antibodies that prevented infection by previous strains. This makes it easier for the changed virus to spread throughout a partially immune population. Antigenic drift occurs in both influenza A and influenza B viruses.




And yet...by some miracle. They come out with new, effective, vaccines each year. Are you saying we should allow COVID to keep killing and injuring hundreds of thousands of people so we won't be inconvenienced with making a new vaccine???

And, as I have said, REPEATEDLY...those mutations become a concern the LONGER and someone is infected and when MORE people are infected ipso facto the virus is MORE likely to mutate to a dangerous variant in unvaccinated populations. It may be more likely to mutate to a strain in which the vaccine is ineffective in vaccinated populations, or it might not, but that doesn't necessarily make it more dangerous and it just means we have to update the vaccine.

It might not be more likely to mutate around the vaccine in the vaccinated populations just because of the fact that less mutations occur in vaccinated populations...just by the fact that new variants are more likely to occur in unvaccinated populations may mean that a vaccine resistant strain is more likely to originate in them.





dude i'm not arguing a strategy. its unfortunate thats the only thing you saw. I am saying there is solid science behind perhaps waiting until a good vaccine comes out, by studying people who survived and if you use shitty vaccines up front to get shit opened, you may remove that option from the table all together.


--------------------
[quote]koods said:
Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote]

[quote]koods said:
Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]

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Offlineparadoxlost
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: koods]
    #27419919 - 08/08/21 03:12 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
The flue virus. H1N1 came from the regular influenza virus. antigenetic drift. I get it from scientists.



First off flu viruses have animal reservoirs. you can’t compare the behavior of a flu virus to a coronavirus





Quote:



In human populations, immune (vaccinated) individuals exert selective pressure for single point mutations in the hemagglutinin gene that increase receptor binding avidity, while naive individuals exert selective pressure for single point mutations that decrease receptor binding avidity.[8] These dynamic selection pressures facilitate the observed rapid evolution in the hemagglutinin gene. Specifically, 18 specific codons in the HA1 domain of the hemagglutinin gene have been identified as undergoing positive selection to change their encoded amino acid.[10] To meet the challenge of antigenic drift, vaccines that confer broad protection against heterovariant strains are needed against seasonal, epidemic and pandemic influenza.[11]




just admit, i have a point and i will admit you have a point


--------------------
[quote]koods said:
Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote]

[quote]koods said:
Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: paradoxlost]
    #27419926 - 08/08/21 03:15 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

paradoxlost said:
Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
Antigenic drift is a kind of genetic variation in viruses, arising from the accumulation of mutations in the virus genes that code for virus-surface proteins that host antibodies recognize. This results in a new strain of virus particles that is not effectively inhibited by the antibodies that prevented infection by previous strains. This makes it easier for the changed virus to spread throughout a partially immune population. Antigenic drift occurs in both influenza A and influenza B viruses.




And yet...by some miracle. They come out with new, effective, vaccines each year. Are you saying we should allow COVID to keep killing and injuring hundreds of thousands of people so we won't be inconvenienced with making a new vaccine???

And, as I have said, REPEATEDLY...those mutations become a concern the LONGER and someone is infected and when MORE people are infected ipso facto the virus is MORE likely to mutate to a dangerous variant in unvaccinated populations. It may be more likely to mutate to a strain in which the vaccine is ineffective in vaccinated populations, or it might not, but that doesn't necessarily make it more dangerous and it just means we have to update the vaccine.

It might not be more likely to mutate around the vaccine in the vaccinated populations just because of the fact that less mutations occur in vaccinated populations...just by the fact that new variants are more likely to occur in unvaccinated populations may mean that a vaccine resistant strain is more likely to originate in them.





dude i'm not arguing a strategy. its unfortunate thats the only thing you saw. I am saying there is solid science behind perhaps waiting until a good vaccine comes out, by studying people who survived and if you use shitty vaccines up front to get shit opened, you may remove that option from the table all together.




The vaccines are fine. It’s the nature of coronaviruses to get around acquired immunity. There are four other coronaviruses that do not impart permanent or complete immunity


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: paradoxlost]
    #27419933 - 08/08/21 03:17 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

paradoxlost said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
The flue virus. H1N1 came from the regular influenza virus. antigenetic drift. I get it from scientists.



First off flu viruses have animal reservoirs. you can’t compare the behavior of a flu virus to a coronavirus





Quote:



In human populations, immune (vaccinated) individuals exert selective pressure for single point mutations in the hemagglutinin gene that increase receptor binding avidity, while naive individuals exert selective pressure for single point mutations that decrease receptor binding avidity.[8] These dynamic selection pressures facilitate the observed rapid evolution in the hemagglutinin gene. Specifically, 18 specific codons in the HA1 domain of the hemagglutinin gene have been identified as undergoing positive selection to change their encoded amino acid.[10] To meet the challenge of antigenic drift, vaccines that confer broad protection against heterovariant strains are needed against seasonal, epidemic and pandemic influenza.[11]




just admit, i have a point and i will admit you have a point



But you don't have a point though so...


--------------------
:whyyy:

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: paradoxlost]
    #27419935 - 08/08/21 03:19 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I think the virus is pretty well understood at this point in terms of how it functions and what should be targeted by antibodies, and they did pick a pretty good antigen as was evidenced by vaccine efficacy. And I don't think there's any significant genetic shift with corona viruses since they it doesn't have a segmented genome.

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,580
Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: koods]
    #27419939 - 08/08/21 03:20 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
The flue virus. H1N1 came from the regular influenza virus. antigenetic drift. I get it from scientists.



First off flu viruses have animal reservoirs. you can’t compare the behavior of a flu virus to a coronavirus




Exactly, the flu virus doesn't change each year BECAUSE of the vaccine. Which seems to be what he thinks. H1N1 didn't occur because the previous year's flu mutated inside of vaccinated individuals...they just picked the wrong flu strains for the vaccine that year. We aren't passing on vaccine resistant strains to Asia each year, just for them to pass it back again, its evolving and mutating in the wild, all on its own, and we just pick the strains we think are heading our way. They aren't the previous years strains which mutated inside of vaccinated individuals.

And even if it did, is he arguing we would be better off without flu shots?

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: paradoxlost]
    #27419942 - 08/08/21 03:23 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

paradoxlost said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
The flue virus. H1N1 came from the regular influenza virus. antigenetic drift. I get it from scientists.



First off flu viruses have animal reservoirs. you can’t compare the behavior of a flu virus to a coronavirus





Quote:



In human populations, immune (vaccinated) individuals exert selective pressure for single point mutations in the hemagglutinin gene that increase receptor binding avidity, while naive individuals exert selective pressure for single point mutations that decrease receptor binding avidity.[8] These dynamic selection pressures facilitate the observed rapid evolution in the hemagglutinin gene. Specifically, 18 specific codons in the HA1 domain of the hemagglutinin gene have been identified as undergoing positive selection to change their encoded amino acid.[10] To meet the challenge of antigenic drift, vaccines that confer broad protection against heterovariant strains are needed against seasonal, epidemic and pandemic influenza.[11]




just admit, i have a point and i will admit you have a point




You don't have a point, you don't even understand the science you are trying to use. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that this study was about creating a universal flu vaccine. This doesn't even apply to COVID, and it absolutely doesn't say that people should forego flu shots for fear of mutation.

It doesn't support your argument...which at best boils down to letting the virus hurt and kill people so we won't be inconvenienced with having to make a new vaccine???

There is ZERO legitimate reason to "wait" for a new vaccine. For one, 2 shots are plenty effective, but more to the point...if a new vaccine comes out you can get the new vaccine, getting the previous vaccine isn't going to make the new vaccine work any less...

Edited by Holybullshit (08/08/21 03:34 PM)

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Offlineparadoxlost
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27419943 - 08/08/21 03:23 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
The flue virus. H1N1 came from the regular influenza virus. antigenetic drift. I get it from scientists.



First off flu viruses have animal reservoirs. you can’t compare the behavior of a flu virus to a coronavirus





Quote:



In human populations, immune (vaccinated) individuals exert selective pressure for single point mutations in the hemagglutinin gene that increase receptor binding avidity, while naive individuals exert selective pressure for single point mutations that decrease receptor binding avidity.[8] These dynamic selection pressures facilitate the observed rapid evolution in the hemagglutinin gene. Specifically, 18 specific codons in the HA1 domain of the hemagglutinin gene have been identified as undergoing positive selection to change their encoded amino acid.[10] To meet the challenge of antigenic drift, vaccines that confer broad protection against heterovariant strains are needed against seasonal, epidemic and pandemic influenza.[11]




just admit, i have a point and i will admit you have a point



But you don't have a point though so...





my point is you guys are retarded not me and yooure making it worse by being so aggressive


--------------------
[quote]koods said:
Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote]

[quote]koods said:
Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,580
Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: paradoxlost]
    #27419951 - 08/08/21 03:29 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

paradoxlost said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:

But you don't have a point though so...





my point is you guys are retarded not me and yooure making it worse by being so aggressive




Bodhisatta was so aggressive....not the guy calling people retarded.(and the fact that you would use that word speaks volumes)

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Offlineparadoxlost
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: Holybullshit] * 1
    #27419980 - 08/08/21 03:52 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:

But you don't have a point though so...





my point is you guys are retarded not me and yooure making it worse by being so aggressive




Bodhisatta was so aggressive....not the guy calling people retarded.(and the fact that you would use that word speaks volumes)



i was called retarded by so many people in this thread

but you're right, i should'nt have said that. I  apologize for calling them retarded. I should have said cowardly


--------------------
[quote]koods said:
Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote]

[quote]koods said:
Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]

Edited by paradoxlost (08/08/21 03:56 PM)

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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: paradoxlost]
    #27420220 - 08/08/21 07:06 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)


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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: chopstick]
    #27420278 - 08/08/21 07:59 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sure he would have survived the fall if he had.

Good work CNN, so many more people are going to get vaccinated now because of this article.

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Offlineparadoxlost
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: hummingbird]
    #27420320 - 08/08/21 08:36 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cannabinated said:
then ur absolutely retarded



Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
i will be patient with you. i've posted that study i gave you, plus a study out of penn state. Both indicate this:

if you are healthy and get a "leaky" vaccine aka a vaccine that doesn't prevent reinfection (such as this one), but more or less lowers symptoms, what you are doing is essentially lowering your viral load by killing off viral molecules that have not mutated to express resistence to the vaccine. So that leaves mutated viruses that are resistent, or have some sort of resistence to the vaccine. For whatever physiochemcial reason, idk. Thats happening. So when you go out, the virus you're spreading isnt the virus you were infected with. Where as, if you're not infected you spread the virus you are infected with. Now two humans are working on antibodies.




This is absolute gibberish. You don’t understand the concepts you are discussing.



Quote:

morrowasted said:
God this is so cringey



Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

paradoxlost said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
God this is so cringey





how so?



If you worked in medicine you'd be cringing while reading the posts you've made. I don't feel like explaining the obvious anymore because i tried for months already, my job as an ICU nurse is exhausting, and I have better things to do



Quote:

koods said:
You really don’t understand how this works



Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

koods said:
There’s a division brewing amongst the vaccinated. Some vaccinated people are getting pretty stridently anti-mask. It’s interesting to see this dynamic.



Im anti mask for selfish dickhead reasons and don't care I own it and am willing to admit it. Ill take my chances and I could care less about people who want to go out in society and put their selves at risk. The world is a jungle sometimes it's dangerous.

With that said. Not getting the vaccine = you're a retard. No pleasant way to say it... you're literally not smart enough to understand why it's a no brainer.

And I totally understand masks work. I think most of the vaccinated but unwilling to wear masks group are intellectually deficient and believe the vaccine is a all or nothing forcefield that prevents the vaccine from even entering their body. Or maybe they just think masks are lame like me.



Quote:

bodhisatta said:
It's like you're kind of on sciences side but are getting all your other talking points from jimmy dore.

What about the homeless?!?

Bitch please we can find and give vaccines to all the people in third world countries but now we won't be able to vaccinate all of our own homeless.... Come on now that's ridiculous



Quote:

QM33 said:
Bro you haven't done anything but muddy the waters. You should have stopped a while ago.

You are literally making educated guesses on what you think could potentially happen.




this one is my favorite "you're literally making educated guesses." as if that's a bad thing to be doing?

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
[
It's funny I know some Harvard graduates that are pretty dumb but still managed to get through.

I think penn state owes you a refund at the least



Quote:

bodhisatta said:
No sir. You have made yourself look dumb with loads of ridiculous comparisons, misinterpretation and misrepresentation of studies you posted, verifiable lack of comprehension of things you have read, and your pedantic worry about a very improbable mutation of more virulence based on one study done in animals.(which is moot anyway if it does happen)







koods, I thank you for the few decently formed post in our exchanges. This is how vaxxers are presenting their side. You guys are assholes. Anti-vaxxers are assholes. You guys all just want to sling shit instead of talk. Wouldn't it be nice if we could have this type of conversation and then at the end of the day just do what the doctors say to do? This way instead of our hanging out time being us talking shit with each other, we put ourselves on the same team against ignorance. Clearly I have a wildly relevant point in regards to the ways that natural selection and mutations work in regards to directed evolution. It's something that is in EVERY OTHER LIVING SPECIES to say that just because you haven't seen it in novel coronaviruses is like going to the other side of the universe and just assuming physics won't work cause you haven't tried it there yet. This is how it works. If it doesn't, tell me why, don't call me a retard or a bitch or say I don't understand what I'm talking about. that's not how discourse works.


I'm sorry for insinuating that I am not the retarded one, and the people who called me retarded are. Who am I to classify anyone's mental state. I can just state that their behavior goes agasinst their interests and the interests of those around them. Call that what you like.


--------------------
[quote]koods said:
Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote]

[quote]koods said:
Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]

Edited by paradoxlost (08/08/21 08:37 PM)

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Posts: 28,039
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: paradoxlost] * 1
    #27420330 - 08/08/21 08:44 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

This thread gave me cancer :sad:

:mypoorbrain:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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Invisiblechopstick
nobody
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Registered: 07/26/08
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27420338 - 08/08/21 08:52 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

It gave me AIDS and then cancer and then hemorrhoids. My entire existence is now a super-spreader event.

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Offlineparadoxlost
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: chopstick]
    #27420341 - 08/08/21 08:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I wish I had cancer, then I could die before I watch an entirely preventable collapse of a decent civilization.


--------------------
[quote]koods said:
Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote]

[quote]koods said:
Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]

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InvisiblePatrickKn
I'm a teapot

Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,947
Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: paradoxlost]
    #27420357 - 08/08/21 09:11 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

That's silly. Total collapse only comes 1 or 2 times each lifetime. That's basically like wishing for cancer because of a solar eclipse is coming.

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Invisiblechopstick
nobody
Male


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,265
Loc: Chin's Wok
Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: paradoxlost] * 1
    #27420362 - 08/08/21 09:13 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

paradoxlost said:
I wish I had cancer, then I could die before I watch an entirely preventable collapse of a decent civilization.




Society needed to collapse anyway. We are going to give birth to a new society that will recognize Oneness and utilize crystal technology that generates infinite power at no cost to the environment and produces flying crystal-powered vehicles that glide effortlessly through the air.

Like Disney's Atlantis.

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Offlineparadoxlost
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Re: Here's what the doctor just told me about Covid and the Delta and Vaccine- @ koods [Re: PatrickKn]
    #27420366 - 08/08/21 09:14 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
That's silly. Total collapse only comes 1 or 2 times each lifetime. That's basically like wishing for cancer because of a solar eclipse is coming.





you're right, i don't wish i had cancer



great video explaining the direction vaccines are going to eradicate influenza. They are broad spectrum vaccines that target more then one route or mechanism of action.








The mRNA vaccine, although effective, will not eradicate anything and will mostly likely ensure that people HAVE to continue to purchase copyrighted antigens into purpetuity or it will stimulate the evolution of more dangerous viral strains that cannot be destroyed using the singular mechanisms of the mRNA vaccine.


--------------------
[quote]koods said:
Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote]

[quote]koods said:
Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]

Edited by paradoxlost (08/08/21 10:06 PM)

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