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Russ101
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Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression
#27415733 - 08/05/21 04:35 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I been on diazepam (valium) for a few weeks And I know I will need to come of soon.
Will microdosing on magic mushrooms be near as good.
I am growing cubensis b+ At the moment but won't be ready for atleast a few weeks.
Anyone got experience. Doctor will only give me anti depressants which makes me feel worse even when I been on them for months on end.
I really need on this.
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aNewBeginning

Registered: 06/26/21
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
#27416009 - 08/05/21 08:28 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Could you elaborate? I'm unsure of what you're asking.
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Fridgedoor
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: aNewBeginning]
#27416095 - 08/05/21 09:17 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think he's asking whether psilocybin can replace the prescription meds he is on now.
OP, please note that I have never been on anti depressants. I have been suffering depression at a certain point in my life though and mushrooms helped me overcome these depressions. I want to add that I didn't take mushrooms with the intention to get rid of the depression as I didn't know about their healing properties back then. It was a wonderful side effect to gain back some quality of life.
That being said, don't expect mushrooms to be the magic bullet. But I would definitely give it a try once you weaned off your meds.
-------------------- Hokus Pokus Fidibus!
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Russ101
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: aNewBeginning]
#27423139 - 08/10/21 06:32 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm suffering from unbelievable grief from my ex who left me 6 months ago and we have a daughter together.
I been taking valium and anti depressants.
I want to come of them and start microdosing with Cubensis c+ that will be ready in a couple of weeks time.
Could this help with the anxiety and depression.
Without meds I can't even leave my bed.
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nooneman


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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
#27423248 - 08/10/21 07:51 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Mushrooms are ineffective against anxiety, and only effective against depression at high doses.
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CreonAntigone
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: nooneman]
#27423539 - 08/11/21 12:01 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Magic mushrooms are extremely effective for anxiety in my experience, but - this is the important part - not while you're on them! They are intense and during the mushroom experience one can be more susceptible to anxiety. One can even temporarily relive traumatic experiences or dig up harmful memories. This can happen even if one was euphoric just an hour before and even if it ends up being good overall. Heck, you can even feel both euphoria and dread at the same time or quickly alternating.
Magic mushrooms help anxiety when they do by helping self-exploration. They only help if you are committed to doing the work of examining your emotions. In some ways they are the opposite of diazepam. Diazepam is a sedative, it slows the heart-rate and reduces emotional outbursts. Mushrooms induce emotional outbursts! Hopefully that can help you understand the risks and why they should never be taken lightly. All that said, this self-exploration they enable is just about the only thing that has helped me with any of my trauma. Even a very scary experience helps me learn about myself. Mushrooms can help you only if you are committed to changing yourself entirely, top to bottom.
I don't recommend 'microdosing'. When people suggest microdosing as taking a dose so low you don't feel a thing, I think they give bad advice. Mushrooms are a psychoactive drug meant to be felt. However if you want a really really small dose to start to see if you feel anything, there's nothing wrong with that. Just respect them and treat them like they are, extremely powerful drugs that can change who you are. Understand them, learn them. That's what it takes to use mushrooms to address any mental issue. If you're game for that challenge take it, but if you want a sedative there are tons of better options.
If your desire is to simply find something to bring you down, I'd recommend the following course of action: daily high doses of chamomile and holy basil, lots of exercise, vacation if you feel like it and a complete rest from work. That would be a good thing to take if you wanted to just give your body something to replace diazepam. Mushrooms are something different entirely, a decent option for some and a terrible one for others. Choose it only with respect.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: nooneman]
#27423724 - 08/11/21 05:59 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: Mushrooms are ineffective against anxiety, and only effective against depression at high doses.
This is not true at all. I have/had chronic anxiety. Mushrooms helped me to sit with and work with it rather than be a victim of my own feelings.
So OP be careful, there's a lot of really bad advice in this thread already this morning.
And OP, while I disagree with the above poster that microdoses can't be helpful (not the quote, the person I replied too) I somewhat concur that a larger dose, taken with someone you trust to hold space, may help you find some peace with losing your wife. I know that hallucinogens and psilocibin and dmt in particular help to put me in touch with those I've lost in a physical sense and be more aware of their constant presence in a spiritual sense.
I hope it could give you that same peace.
Terribly sorry about your loss, btw.
*edit* With other medications an attack dose is sometimes used. I think here, a large dose (with someone to hold space) followed by a day of integration and then microdosing might be helpful. We have strong habits of mind that tend to pull us back into the darker places. A large dose could give you the perspective and then the micros to help you build new rituals around that perspective.
Also, it's perfectly okay to take time to rest and heal after a loss like this. We tend to pathalogize this behavior as 'depression' because the expectation from the assholes that run the world is that we work from 18-65 regardless of anything else that happens. In other words, the people that tend to run the world have no fucking compassion. Please find some in yourself and be kind to yourself as you go through this time of mourning and grief. There's no rule that says you have X days to get over this shit and back to it except the ones our bosses make up.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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CreonAntigone
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: paperbackwriter]
#27424184 - 08/11/21 01:29 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
And OP, while I disagree with the above poster that microdoses can't be helpful (not the quote, the person I replied too) I somewhat concur that a larger dose, taken with someone you trust to hold space, may help you find some peace with losing your wife.
I don't want to derail this thread, in this case I think it is relevant. What's your case for microdosing? When you microdose would you say you feel nothing, or is there something barely perceptible there? What is your dosing schedule/amount and how often do you rotate? I just get this feeling that microdosing is like taking nothing, you're using the drug only at the level when it is least effective. A friend of mine told me she microdosed and noticed no change. Was she microdosing at too small a level? How would one tell?
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Also, it's perfectly okay to take time to rest and heal after a loss like this. We tend to pathalogize this behavior as 'depression' because the expectation from the assholes that run the world is that we work from 18-65 regardless of anything else that happens.
Yes the best medicine of all is rest, and Americans are so sick because they never get any. I wish I had taken a sabbatical sometime during this pandemic and lived frugally with some friends. My job and studies both turned into dystopian versions of themselves after this pandemic. Everyone right now is feeling every problem at a far higher level because our social fabric has been destroyed. If people take away your social support system, the ONLY remedy is to start being independent. They abandon you, so you have to take care of yourself. The pandemic unfortunately created a worst of both worlds where one is asked to do a large amount of work yet there is no community or social meaning.
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Russ101
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27424353 - 08/11/21 04:29 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have microdosed in the past and had worked for me. I know it will take me along time to heal but want to reduce this anxiety and depression.
I have taken a dose and feel an actual self of calm.. Reensuring me everthing is going to work out.. Feel like I habe a relaxed mind.
Edited by Russ101 (08/11/21 05:31 PM)
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DERRAYLD
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101] 1
#27425047 - 08/12/21 08:52 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you need to chat you are welcome to message me, I separated from my ex last year after 17 years of marriage, 20 years together, 2 sons 5 and 21.
I went through my fair share of depression and crying related to my son but I make a point of being there for him and making every moment with him special.
You will get through this in time, it's not easy hearing that but it will happen.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: DERRAYLD]
#27425157 - 08/12/21 10:43 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I misunderstood. I thought she had died. In which case I wouldn't suggest a large dose. Just because for me the large doses are more of a spiritual thing and it might be harder to get the same perspective on grief towards losing someone that's still alive and you're still carrying a torch for.
I went through a divorce about six years ago. It was very hard. Suicide attempt, prison time for growing. Still fighting with my ex to get my parental rights back.
To the person asking about the case for microdosing. It's similar to taking an antidepressant, you might not notice much for awhile.
But even a low dose of pislocybin for me calms my mind a lot. And while you might not notice right away that the loudness of your thoughts goes from a 10 to a 9, it's an improvement, and the next day maybe it will go from 9 to a 7, and then down to a 3 or a 5 over a few weeks.
It's generally not very noticable and I think a lot of people miss it because they think if they can't see shit it's not working. But for me, having my mind not constantly screaming in my... well, mind, is very helpful.
I can't microdose though right now. I'm on parole. So waiting for the FDA to approve it (it's in breakthrough phase 3 now. A lot of psych meds are because of covid related mental health stuff.)
Much love OP. Stay focused on your kid as much as you can while giving yourself space to feel your feels. You'll get through it.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Russ101
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: paperbackwriter]
#27426572 - 08/13/21 09:19 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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No she hasn't died. Would of been easier as I could get closure.
I am taking a dose soon to help me with. U anxiety and depression.. Just a crutch until I see a professional.
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FMPO
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
#27426934 - 08/13/21 02:07 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Russ101 said: I been on diazepam (valium) for a few weeks And I know I will need to come of soon.
Will microdosing on magic mushrooms be near as good.
I am growing cubensis b+ At the moment but won't be ready for atleast a few weeks.
Anyone got experience. Doctor will only give me anti depressants which makes me feel worse even when I been on them for months on end.
I really need on this.
Just be careful with benzos my friend, it's a slippery slope (ask me how I know). They're appropriate for getting a wisdom tooth pulled, public speaking, flying, etc, but any doc that prescribes them as an "every day med" is not doing you any favors, believe me. See Here for horror stories of folks trying to get off them. I've had good luck over the last few months self-treating depression and anxiety with mushrooms (mini dosing, sometimes more) and agree with the other poster who said the change comes AFTER using them, not during the experience. Good luck.
Edited by FMPO (08/13/21 02:11 PM)
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Russ101
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: FMPO]
#27426986 - 08/13/21 02:48 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well I have been put on anti depressants (prozake so I am waiting for them to ki k in and start taping of my Benzos. Also when my muchrooms are ready I will use them instead.
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shuna


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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
#27427067 - 08/13/21 04:32 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Good luck Russ, we got your back here.
Had a few breakups with ex and kids and went back a few times.
In my situation I'm better off out of that toxic relationship, it's just 99% of the time I didn't see it because of the depression.
Shrooms will do something for sure. I like downers but know they're no good for me. Lots of herbal stuff to try, st John wort/valerian/kava kava, won't be as strong as valium but might help.
Edited by shuna (08/13/21 04:39 PM)
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Russ101
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: shuna]
#27427182 - 08/13/21 06:43 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Did you suffer from deep grief.
Thankyou pal
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shuna


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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
#27427210 - 08/13/21 07:14 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Deep relief, but also heartbreak, separation from kids was the real killer for me. They still think I was the one who walked out on them, not forgiven me for it. Shits fucked up lol
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Russ101
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: FMPO]
#27427601 - 08/14/21 08:37 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well I have been put on anti depressants (prozake so I am waiting for them to kick in and start taping of my Benzos. Also when my muchrooms are ready I will use them instead.
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Russ101
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: shuna]
#27429049 - 08/15/21 10:55 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah certainly fucked up for sure.
My ex made lots of lies to our mutual friend. About me hitting her and my daughter.. People are angry at her as they know I wouldn't hit a woman.
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CreonAntigone
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
#27429147 - 08/15/21 12:21 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shrooms will do something for sure. I like downers but know they're no good for me. Lots of herbal stuff to try, st John wort/valerian/kava kava, won't be as strong as valium but might help.
Yeah. If one wants to just 'replace' diazepam with a safer herbal alternative, they should look for herbs that hit the same receptors. Those are (that I know of) chamomile, blue skullcap, Chinese skullcap, valerian, passion flower, lemon balm and kava. All these either act directly on GABA or increase the levels of GABA. Chamomile and lemon balm seem to be the safest and best for anxiety so I'd recommend someone starts with strong chamomile and lemon balm tea every day, using blue skullcap as needed if anxiety gets bad. Ashwagandha also seems to really help anxiety in some although it increases it for others so one should use more caution with it.
St. John's Wart is good although it is an SRI so it has a risk of bad side-effects if combined with other medicines that hit serotonin. I like holy basil and bacopa myself, those all have a million different actions in the body and are called 'adaptogens' because they're thought to help people adapt to stress. Ashwagandha falls into the same territory.
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shuna


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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27429210 - 08/15/21 01:10 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, St johns wort and prozac together wouldn't be good.
Holy basil is something I'd like to try and can be grown indoors, looks interesting.
Bacopa can be grown in an aquarium.... your giving me ideas Creon.
Quote:
CreonAntigone said: Ashwagandha also seems to really help anxiety in some although it increases it for others so one should use more caution with it.
Interesting you say that, chamomile makes me a bit more jittery/nervous, but I think it helps in a way to calm. Its difficult to describe.
Edited by shuna (08/15/21 02:35 PM)
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CreonAntigone
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: shuna]
#27430550 - 08/16/21 04:48 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shuna said: Holy basil is something I'd like to try and can be grown indoors, looks interesting.
Bacopa can be grown in an aquarium.... your giving me ideas Creon.
I'm just absolutely addicted to Indian herbs. The Indian traditional medical system is fascinating because everything is herbs or polyherbal combinations, some of which are extremely sophisticated - we're talking mixes of 20 or more herbs, some of them dangerous in the wrong proportions. So all these herbs have basically been 'bred' for medical use. Most of these plants contain either alkaloids or if not, highly psychoactive terpenoids/flavonoids. For example they use shikaki, a plant in the Acacia family which is a natural source of nicotine.
Most of the ones popular in the west are pretty safe though. In fact, the irony is that most of the western 'supplement' market is just pretending they discovered these. For example Joe Rogan sells a 'brain supplement' but the main ingredient is just bacopa. Instead of his mix though, one would save money just buying a thing of bacopa powder from an Indian market and mixing it with other Indian herbs such as Ashwagandha. I highly recommend the brand Himalaya, available on amazon. They do really strong extracts of these herbs, their little herb capsules can be taken whole or chewed. Another fun fact, Ashwagandha has been clinically proven to raise testosterone levels, one of the only supplements in the world to do so. It does so by lowering stress and not by increasing it directly, meaning it is great for exercise-related stress.
Holy basil I think goes great with shroom tea. It has a strong flavor that somehow doesn't disguise the taste of mushrooms but makes them pleasant.
Edited by CreonAntigone (08/16/21 05:03 PM)
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27432726 - 08/18/21 06:35 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorry to thread jack a bit OP.
I asked my Dr for valium. I have chronic muscle pain related to a compressed disk. So yeah, I'm looking for a muscle relaxer for it while I try to get a surgeon to look at a disk replacement. I also get a lot of anxiety though I think it's mostly related to said pain and not feeling heard in regards to that pain and being on parole and not being able to manage my pain the way I used too (with weed).
So Kava and/or Ashwagandha might be an option here? Any idea if either of these is going to fuck up a UA?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (08/18/21 06:37 AM)
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CreonAntigone
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: paperbackwriter]
#27433563 - 08/18/21 07:46 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Sorry to thread jack a bit OP.
I asked my Dr for valium. I have chronic muscle pain related to a compressed disk. So yeah, I'm looking for a muscle relaxer for it while I try to get a surgeon to look at a disk replacement. I also get a lot of anxiety though I think it's mostly related to said pain and not feeling heard in regards to that pain and being on parole and not being able to manage my pain the way I used too (with weed).
So Kava and/or Ashwagandha might be an option here? Any idea if either of these is going to fuck up a UA?
Kava is a very strong muscle relaxer. I can't speak to its usefulness because I haven't tried it, but I will say it is probably the most psychoactive of the GABA herbs. The erowid page would be the most helpful for that. It might be too sedating for regular use.
IMO the 'strongest' muscle relaxer of any I've tried is blue skullcap, it really works and knocks you out. I think it is infinitely less addicting than valium so if it works it'd be a good option. Lemon balm and chamomile are the same thing but much less active so you'd be less likely to feel them.
Ashwagandha is kind of like a different thing, its mechanisms for dealing with stress are a bit different. It's still quite useful though. I'd say it's worth trying and has relatively low risks. It is best with exercise, it really does increase testosterone at high doses so be careful. I've tried both low doses and very high doses of it, very high doses are physically safe but can induce irritation and anxiety due to its action on hormones. As a daily medication, a low dose of ashwagandha can work wonders however. A study suggested it is best after exercise.
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MushBrain1
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
#27433584 - 08/18/21 08:02 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hi Russ, You are myself 10 years ago! I begged God for death every single day for 3 years. 3rd degree burns all over my face and body cannot compare to the suffering possible in one's own mind! Yes Mushrumes WILL LIKELY HELP YOU! That is a FACT! It is also a fact that if you take too many grams, say > 3. even 4 grams of say B+, you are going to be borderline freaking out and feeling trapped until you come down, ~ 4.5 hours later. So increment your dose in Capsule form to keep a handle on it.
Next lesson I learned. Nobody comes to God on their Feet! They all come crawling on the ground weeping and sobbing and begging for death! If you are not yet a believer in Jesus Christ as your Risen Lord and Savior, meaning God in the flesh, then you need to read a Gospel, any 1 of 4 and plant the seed to later decide about that. I like John or Luke best. John and Matthew were original disciples, not students of them as were Luke and Mark.
You do not need to attend Church. You do not need to be Holy. You cannot be as long as you have flesh, so give that up and live in grace in Jesus. You are still going to sin every day! The difference is you will feel bad about it. Ladies will still give you a Boner. You should meet some believers to hang with. There you will find a very fine Lady, who loves you and who also loves Jesus! You have not yet experienced the love of your life young man! She is going to try to hump you to death, and if you die during that joyful time, you will die a happy man, I guarantee!
Never give up. Never surrender! Hold your head high while you are visiting with your daughter. DO NOT argue during divorce. That makes Lawyers rich! Just get over with dividing the property and setting custody and visitation. Yes there is a chance she may come back to you, and make you so happy! Always pray! Don't stop praying 24x7!
Edited by MushBrain1 (08/18/21 08:04 PM)
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TerdleMountain
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Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
#28235077 - 03/18/23 01:34 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Hey Russ!
I see that you are getting all sorts of advice, figured I'd add to the confusion with advice based on my own experience.
For a frame of reference, I'm officially diagnosed with anxiety disorder and medication resistant major depressive disorder. That just means I've ran the gamut of testing and medication and nothing worked. I've also tried herbs, spiritual stuff, martial arts.. ad nauseum. I hit pretty close to the bottom a while back, went to the hardware store to checkout all the pretty ropes they had on display.. you know.
So, just to keep this sort, instead of buying rope I bought a spore syringe and the things I needed to grow. While that was in the works I spent my time getting high and meditating. (That really improved things for me, but I still had too much trouble with depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts.)
When my mushrooms were ready, I took 2g. The trip was... indescribable, wonderful, cosmic and connected. On the other side of it, I was different but I couldn't (or was afraid to) understand exactly how. I've lived with anxiety and depression all my life, it took a few weeks of soul searching before I could begin to believe that it was gone. For the most part, it was. I no longer felt the draw to off myself either, actually, I felt at peace for the first time and able to roll with the ups and downs of life.
Did shrooms cure me? Nope. What they di do is open a doorway through which I could see myself more clearly. The helped me accept and understand who I am. It's not been an easy road to walk and there is no real end that I can see, but I'm kinda' digging just being alive now.
That was just from 2g. It's still my favorite dose and I'll do it every few months now, or just whenever it seems the time is right. I'm really of the opinion that to really benefit and relieve depression, you have to trip (there are studies supporting it), so, 2 to 3 grams along with some nice jams and a blanket.
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