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OfflineRuss101
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Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 27
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression
    #27415733 - 08/05/21 04:35 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I been on diazepam (valium) for a few weeks
And I know I will need to come of soon.

Will microdosing on magic mushrooms be near as good.

I am growing cubensis b+
At the moment but won't be ready for atleast a few weeks.

Anyone got experience. Doctor will only give me anti depressants which makes me feel worse even when I been on them for months on end.

I really need on this.


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InvisibleaNewBeginning

Registered: 06/26/21
Posts: 708
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
    #27416009 - 08/05/21 08:28 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Could you elaborate? I'm unsure of what you're asking.


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OfflineFridgedoor
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Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 1,045
Last seen: 3 days, 4 hours
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: aNewBeginning]
    #27416095 - 08/05/21 09:17 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I think he's asking whether psilocybin can replace the prescription meds he is on now.

OP, please note that I have never been on anti depressants. I have been suffering depression at a certain point in my life though and mushrooms helped me overcome these depressions. I want to add that I didn't take mushrooms with the intention to get rid of the depression as I didn't know about their healing properties back then. It was a wonderful side effect to gain back some quality of life.

That being said, don't expect mushrooms to be the magic bullet. But I would definitely give it a try once you weaned off your meds.


--------------------
Hokus Pokus Fidibus!


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OfflineRuss101
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Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 27
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: aNewBeginning]
    #27423139 - 08/10/21 06:32 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I'm suffering from unbelievable grief from my ex who left me 6 months ago and we have a daughter together.

I been taking valium and anti depressants.

I want to come of them and start microdosing with Cubensis c+ that will be ready in a couple of weeks time.

Could this help with the anxiety and depression.

Without meds I can't even leave my bed.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
    #27423248 - 08/10/21 07:51 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Mushrooms are ineffective against anxiety, and only effective against depression at high doses.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: nooneman]
    #27423539 - 08/11/21 12:01 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Magic mushrooms are extremely effective for anxiety in my experience, but - this is the important part - not while you're on them! They are intense and during the mushroom experience one can be more susceptible to anxiety. One can even temporarily relive traumatic experiences or dig up harmful memories. This can happen even if one was euphoric just an hour before and even if it ends up being good overall. Heck, you can even feel both euphoria and dread at the same time or quickly alternating.

Magic mushrooms help anxiety when they do by helping self-exploration. They only help if you are committed to doing the work of examining your emotions. In some ways they are the opposite of diazepam. Diazepam is a sedative, it slows the heart-rate and reduces emotional outbursts. Mushrooms induce emotional outbursts! Hopefully that can help you understand the risks and why they should never be taken lightly. All that said, this self-exploration they enable is just about the only thing that has helped me with any of my trauma. Even a very scary experience helps me learn about myself. Mushrooms can help you only if you are committed to changing yourself entirely, top to bottom.

I don't recommend 'microdosing'. When people suggest microdosing as taking a dose so low you don't feel a thing, I think they give bad advice. Mushrooms are a psychoactive drug meant to be felt. However if you want a really really small dose to start to see if you feel anything, there's nothing wrong with that. Just respect them and treat them like they are, extremely powerful drugs that can change who you are. Understand them, learn them. That's what it takes to use mushrooms to address any mental issue. If you're game for that challenge take it, but if you want a sedative there are tons of better options.

If your desire is to simply find something to bring you down, I'd recommend the following course of action: daily high doses of chamomile and holy basil, lots of exercise, vacation if you feel like it and a complete rest from work. That would be a good thing to take if you wanted to just give your body something to replace diazepam. Mushrooms are something different entirely, a decent option for some and a terrible one for others. Choose it only with respect.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: nooneman]
    #27423724 - 08/11/21 05:59 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Mushrooms are ineffective against anxiety, and only effective against depression at high doses.




This is not true at all.  I have/had chronic anxiety.  Mushrooms helped me to sit with and work with it rather than be a victim of my own feelings.

So OP be careful, there's a lot of really bad advice in this thread already this morning.

And OP, while I disagree with the above poster that microdoses can't be helpful (not the quote, the person I replied too) I somewhat concur that a larger dose, taken with someone you trust to hold space, may help you find some peace with losing your wife.  I know that hallucinogens and psilocibin and dmt in particular help to put me in touch with those I've lost in a physical sense and be more aware of their constant presence in a spiritual sense.

I hope it could give you that same peace.

Terribly sorry about your loss, btw.

*edit*  With other medications an attack dose is sometimes used.  I think here, a large dose (with someone to hold space) followed by a day of integration and then microdosing might be helpful.  We have strong habits of mind that tend to pull us back into the darker places.  A large dose could give you the perspective and then the micros to help you build new rituals around that perspective.

Also, it's perfectly okay to take time to rest and heal after a loss like this.  We tend to pathalogize this behavior as 'depression' because the expectation from the assholes that run the world is that we work from 18-65 regardless of anything else that happens.  In other words, the people that tend to run the world have no fucking compassion.  Please find some in yourself and be kind to yourself as you go through this time of mourning and grief.  There's no rule that says you have X days to get over this shit and back to it except the ones our bosses make up.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #27424184 - 08/11/21 01:29 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:

And OP, while I disagree with the above poster that microdoses can't be helpful (not the quote, the person I replied too) I somewhat concur that a larger dose, taken with someone you trust to hold space, may help you find some peace with losing your wife. 





I don't want to derail this thread, in this case I think it is relevant. What's your case for microdosing? When you microdose would you say you feel nothing, or is there something barely perceptible there? What is your dosing schedule/amount and how often do you rotate? I just get this feeling that microdosing is like taking nothing, you're using the drug only at the level when it is least effective. A friend of mine told me she microdosed and noticed no change. Was she microdosing at too small a level? How would one tell?

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Also, it's perfectly okay to take time to rest and heal after a loss like this.  We tend to pathalogize this behavior as 'depression' because the expectation from the assholes that run the world is that we work from 18-65 regardless of anything else that happens.




Yes the best medicine of all is rest, and Americans are so sick because they never get any. I wish I had taken a sabbatical sometime during this pandemic and lived frugally with some friends. My job and studies both turned into dystopian versions of themselves after this pandemic. Everyone right now is feeling every problem at a far higher level because our social fabric has been destroyed. If people take away your social support system, the ONLY remedy is to start being independent. They abandon you, so you have to take care of yourself. The pandemic unfortunately created a worst of both worlds where one is asked to do a large amount of work yet there is no community or social meaning.


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OfflineRuss101
Stranger
Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 27
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27424353 - 08/11/21 04:29 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I have microdosed in the past and had worked for me. I know it will take me along time to heal but want to reduce this anxiety and depression.

I have taken a dose and feel an actual self of calm.. Reensuring me everthing is going to work out.. Feel like I habe a relaxed mind.


Edited by Russ101 (08/11/21 05:31 PM)


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9,284
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101] * 1
    #27425047 - 08/12/21 08:52 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

If you need to chat you are welcome to message me, I separated from my ex last year after 17 years of marriage, 20 years together, 2 sons 5 and 21.

I went through my fair share of depression and crying related to my son but I make a point of being there for him and making every moment with him special.

You will get through this in time, it's not easy hearing that but it will happen.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27425157 - 08/12/21 10:43 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I misunderstood.  I thought she had died.  In which case I wouldn't suggest a large dose.  Just because for me the large doses are more of a spiritual thing and it might be harder to get the same perspective on grief towards losing someone that's still alive and you're still carrying a torch for.

I went through a divorce about six years ago.  It was very hard.  Suicide attempt, prison time for growing.  Still fighting with my ex to get my parental rights back.

To the person asking about the case for microdosing.  It's similar to taking an antidepressant, you might not notice much for awhile.

But even a low dose of pislocybin for me calms my mind a lot.  And while you might not notice right away that the loudness of your thoughts goes from a 10 to a 9, it's an improvement, and the next day maybe it will go from 9 to a 7, and then down to a 3 or a 5 over a few weeks.

It's generally not very noticable and I think a lot of people miss it because they think if they can't see shit it's not working.  But for me, having my mind not constantly screaming in my...  well, mind, is very helpful.

I can't microdose though right now.  I'm on parole.  So waiting for the FDA to approve it (it's in breakthrough phase 3 now.  A lot of psych meds are because of covid related mental health stuff.)

Much love OP.  Stay focused on your kid as much as you can while giving yourself space to feel your feels.  You'll get through it.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineRuss101
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Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 27
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #27426572 - 08/13/21 09:19 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

No she hasn't died.
Would of been easier as I could get closure.

I am taking a dose soon to help me with. U anxiety and depression.. Just a crutch until I see a professional.


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OfflineFMPO
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Registered: 01/02/21
Posts: 121
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
    #27426934 - 08/13/21 02:07 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Russ101 said:
I been on diazepam (valium) for a few weeks
And I know I will need to come of soon.

Will microdosing on magic mushrooms be near as good.

I am growing cubensis b+
At the moment but won't be ready for atleast a few weeks.

Anyone got experience. Doctor will only give me anti depressants which makes me feel worse even when I been on them for months on end.

I really need on this.




Just be careful with benzos my friend, it's a slippery slope (ask me how I know).  They're appropriate  for getting a wisdom tooth pulled, public speaking, flying, etc, but any doc that prescribes them as an "every day med" is not doing you any favors, believe me. See Here for horror stories of folks trying to get off them.  I've had good luck over the last few months self-treating depression and anxiety with mushrooms (mini dosing, sometimes more) and agree with the other poster who said the change comes AFTER using them, not during the experience.  Good luck.


Edited by FMPO (08/13/21 02:11 PM)


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OfflineRuss101
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Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 27
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: FMPO]
    #27426986 - 08/13/21 02:48 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Well I have been put on anti depressants (prozake so I am waiting for them to ki k in and start taping of my Benzos. Also when my muchrooms are ready I will use them instead.


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Offlineshuna
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Registered: 03/07/21
Posts: 270
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
    #27427067 - 08/13/21 04:32 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Good luck Russ, we got your back here.

Had a few breakups with ex and kids and went back a few times.

In my situation I'm better off out of that toxic relationship, it's just 99% of the time I didn't see it because of the depression.

Shrooms will do something for sure. I like downers but know they're no good for me. Lots of herbal stuff to try, st John wort/valerian/kava kava, won't be as strong as valium but might help.


Edited by shuna (08/13/21 04:39 PM)


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OfflineRuss101
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Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 27
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: shuna]
    #27427182 - 08/13/21 06:43 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Did you suffer from deep grief.

Thankyou pal


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Offlineshuna
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Registered: 03/07/21
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
    #27427210 - 08/13/21 07:14 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Deep relief, but also heartbreak, separation from kids was the real killer for me. They still think I was the one who walked out on them, not forgiven me for it. Shits fucked up lol


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OfflineRuss101
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Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 27
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: FMPO]
    #27427601 - 08/14/21 08:37 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Well I have been put on anti depressants (prozake so I am waiting for them to kick in and start taping of my Benzos. Also when my muchrooms are ready I will use them instead.


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OfflineRuss101
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Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 27
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: shuna]
    #27429049 - 08/15/21 10:55 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah certainly fucked up for sure.

My ex made lots of lies to our mutual friend. About me hitting her and my daughter.. People are angry at her as they know I wouldn't hit a woman.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
Re: Magic mushrooms vs Diazepam for anxiety and depression [Re: Russ101]
    #27429147 - 08/15/21 12:21 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Shrooms will do something for sure. I like downers but know they're no good for me. Lots of herbal stuff to try, st John wort/valerian/kava kava, won't be as strong as valium but might help.





Yeah. If one wants to just 'replace' diazepam with a safer herbal alternative, they should look for herbs that hit the same receptors. Those are (that I know of) chamomile, blue skullcap, Chinese skullcap, valerian, passion flower, lemon balm and kava. All these either act directly on GABA or increase the levels of GABA. Chamomile and lemon balm seem to be the safest and best for anxiety so I'd recommend someone starts with strong chamomile and lemon balm tea every day, using blue skullcap as needed if anxiety gets bad. Ashwagandha also seems to really help anxiety in some although it increases it for others so one should use more caution with it.

St. John's Wart is good although it is an SRI so it has a risk of bad side-effects if combined with other medicines that hit serotonin. I like holy basil and bacopa myself, those all have a million different actions in the body and are called 'adaptogens' because they're thought to help people adapt to stress. Ashwagandha falls into the same territory.


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