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patapon333
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Selecting genetics and schedule for a perfect mushroom
#27414397 - 08/04/21 03:15 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hi buddies!
I would love you to describe how is your agar work schedule from a multispore to a awesome genetics.
I hope this thread may help others to plan their work or/and teach them the proper way of doing it right.
For now I am going with: 1. Multispore to agar 2. Clean from possible contam 3. Multispore to grain (here could be to LC and MS LC to grain so colonisation would be probably faster) 4. Grow my mushies 5. Harvest them, take the biggest boys / clusters 6. Determine potency by cutting some of harvested potential good genetic-givers in half and watching how fast and how blue do they get. The fastest and the bluest one is the winner for cloning.
The last problem is next grow - i had sometimes poor pinning or clusters went into single decent shrooms. So I start my work again from point 1.
What would be your scheme guys ?
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c10h12n2o
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Re: Selecting genetics and schedule for a perfect mushroom [Re: patapon333] 2
#27421903 - 08/09/21 11:02 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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it depends on what you mean for awesome genetics
its not all about potency.
a few observations about potency:
-perceived potency of psychedelic's is extremely relative. you and your friend could take identical doses of pure psilocybin and have totally different experiences. you could even take the exact same dose of the same pure chem 2 months apart and have totally different experiences. set and setting matter so much, and part of that is you individual brain chemistry, liver enzymes, stomach properties, and psychology at the time of ingestion. its really hard to control for all these factors to gauge absolute potency, which is why i like the term "perceived potency." even with the proper equipment its hard to get a quantitative measure of active ingredients (potency) since you can send the same sample to 3 labs and will get 3 different numbers (just like with weed, but even more of a range)
- I could have some of this wrong, maybe bod can correct me if so, but bluing is a little complicated. https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/mystery-of-why-magic-mushrooms-go-blue-solved/4010870.article as far as i understand, it is not so much of an indicator of potency as an indicator of presence. the bluing is mostly caused by a group of compounds called quinoid psilocyl oligomers, which are the result of the oxidation of psilocybin/psilocin. so the fact that they blue is evidence of degradation of these active compounds not potency. many of us have seen fruits with lots of bluing that had very little perceived potency, and also fruits that had very high perceived potency but little to no bruising. perhaps the latter is because the active compounds were more stable and less prone to oxidation, and vice versa on the prior.
- personally i am convinced that fast growing cubes are almost always going to be far less potent than slow growing cubes, which leads me to believe that efforts at developing fast growing cubes with PE potency are kinda misguided (PE6, tidal wave, etc). i dont really have anything but anecdote and correlation to support this though, so perhaps it isnt causal despite a strong correlation
back to your question
when i look for awesome genetics i am looking at several factors including:
-speed of colonization -time from spawn to harvest -total yield -how easy it is to get even canopies -how easy it is to get a first flush that justifies 1 and done -ease of harvest -potency
with some of these components, you will almost always see tradeoffs vs others
so really to do a good job strain hunting, you will need to keep great notes and be extremely patient. and also have you skills dialed in to a point where subtle mistakes and divergences in technique and materials aren't affecting these factors more than the genetics (which is almost always the case for most people, a newbie can send a talented grower the exact same culture he is using and the two will almost always see different results on many of these factors). you have to have your testing parameters VERY standardized
also as bod has often said, you need to be able to get consistent good results from MS before you can even be in a position to evaluate isolates and clones
so my workflow is like this:
1. serial streak agar and take several colonies from the later zones. this prevents the need for as many transfers, since you can almost always have a clean, well organized culture in 1-2 transfers. and if you do serial dilution first (w a bit of jet dry to avoid clumping) you can even get isolates VERY fast
2. determine how many cultures i want to test. transfer each culture to a slant, and assign each with a unique ID. i use a roll of stickers 0001-9999 to do this, put the sticker on the master, then label each master/lc/grow using their respective numerical ID
3. grow out each culture in triplicate (at least, sample size is extremely important), using highly standardized materials and conditions and techniques with no variation on these fronts, keeping thorough notes on each culture in a spreadsheet
3a. (optionally) clone interesting fruits/clusters, unless i am testing isolates
4. when complete, feed to guinea pigs and assess perceived potency. compile all the notes and determine if anything is worth running more tests with
5. pull whatever is worth continuing to test out of its slant (or LC if i have some left, to save a few weeks) and continue evaluating it alongside any clones that might have been taken
this is extremely tedious and time consuming and requires a huge amount of patience to find anything truly special, truly unique from random MS flukes, but you can find some really cool stuff if you look hard and long enough.
some examples of cool stuff ive found:
-some inanely fast cultures (11 days to harvest) -some amazing yielders (an AA+ and a natalensis culture that has yielded over 12oz off a tub) -albino and leucistic stuff -a truffle culture that puts out stones in a matter of weeks -a tampanesis culture that fruits off lc and yields more fruits than any ive ever seen (in sig) -an AA+ that always produces monsters over 100g, largest at 295g -an amazon culture that is so insanely easy to harvest, simply pick the tub up on one side and bonk the corner on the ground and the whole canopy is harvested -an amazon culture that makes people break out in hives and has very weird visual effects (im convinced it has a new or uncommon active in it)
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  C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide "Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing." "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" ― Friedrich Nietzsche
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patapon333
Stranger



Registered: 03/27/19
Posts: 120
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Re: Selecting genetics and schedule for a perfect mushroom [Re: c10h12n2o]
#27422175 - 08/10/21 07:09 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
c10h12n2o said: it depends on what you mean for awesome genetics
its not all about potency.
a few observations about potency:
-perceived potency of psychedelic's is extremely relative. you and your friend could take identical doses of pure psilocybin and have totally different experiences. you could even take the exact same dose of the same pure chem 2 months apart and have totally different experiences. set and setting matter so much, and part of that is you individual brain chemistry, liver enzymes, stomach properties, and psychology at the time of ingestion. its really hard to control for all these factors to gauge absolute potency, which is why i like the term "perceived potency." even with the proper equipment its hard to get a quantitative measure of active ingredients (potency) since you can send the same sample to 3 labs and will get 3 different numbers (just like with weed, but even more of a range)
- I could have some of this wrong, maybe bod can correct me if so, but bluing is a little complicated. https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/mystery-of-why-magic-mushrooms-go-blue-solved/4010870.article as far as i understand, it is not so much of an indicator of potency as an indicator of presence. the bluing is mostly caused by a group of compounds called quinoid psilocyl oligomers, which are the result of the oxidation of psilocybin/psilocin. so the fact that they blue is evidence of degradation of these active compounds not potency. many of us have seen fruits with lots of bluing that had very little perceived potency, and also fruits that had very high perceived potency but little to no bruising. perhaps the latter is because the active compounds were more stable and less prone to oxidation, and vice versa on the prior.
- personally i am convinced that fast growing cubes are almost always going to be far less potent than slow growing cubes, which leads me to believe that efforts at developing fast growing cubes with PE potency are kinda misguided (PE6, tidal wave, etc). i dont really have anything but anecdote and correlation to support this though, so perhaps it isnt causal despite a strong correlation
back to your question
when i look for awesome genetics i am looking at several factors including:
-speed of colonization -time from spawn to harvest -total yield -how easy it is to get even canopies -how easy it is to get a first flush that justifies 1 and done -ease of harvest -potency
with some of these components, you will almost always see tradeoffs vs others
so really to do a good job strain hunting, you will need to keep great notes and be extremely patient. and also have you skills dialed in to a point where subtle mistakes and divergences in technique and materials aren't affecting these factors more than the genetics (which is almost always the case for most people, a newbie can send a talented grower the exact same culture he is using and the two will almost always see different results on many of these factors). you have to have your testing parameters VERY standardized
also as bod has often said, you need to be able to get consistent good results from MS before you can even be in a position to evaluate isolates and clones
so my workflow is like this:
1. serial streak agar and take several colonies from the later zones. this prevents the need for as many transfers, since you can almost always have a clean, well organized culture in 1-2 transfers. and if you do serial dilution first (w a bit of jet dry to avoid clumping) you can even get isolates VERY fast
2. determine how many cultures i want to test. transfer each culture to a slant, and assign each with a unique ID. i use a roll of stickers 0001-9999 to do this, put the sticker on the master, then label each master/lc/grow using their respective numerical ID
3. grow out each culture in triplicate (at least, sample size is extremely important), using highly standardized materials and conditions and techniques with no variation on these fronts, keeping thorough notes on each culture in a spreadsheet
3a. (optionally) clone interesting fruits/clusters, unless i am testing isolates
4. when complete, feed to guinea pigs and assess perceived potency. compile all the notes and determine if anything is worth running more tests with
5. pull whatever is worth continuing to test out of its slant (or LC if i have some left, to save a few weeks) and continue evaluating it alongside any clones that might have been taken
this is extremely tedious and time consuming and requires a huge amount of patience to find anything truly special, truly unique from random MS flukes, but you can find some really cool stuff if you look hard and long enough.
some examples of cool stuff ive found:
-some inanely fast cultures (11 days to harvest) -some amazing yielders (an AA+ and a natalensis culture that has yielded over 12oz off a tub) -albino and leucistic stuff -a truffle culture that puts out stones in a matter of weeks -a tampanesis culture that fruits off lc and yields more fruits than any ive ever seen (in sig) -an AA+ that always produces monsters over 100g, largest at 295g -an amazon culture that is so insanely easy to harvest, simply pick the tub up on one side and bonk the corner on the ground and the whole canopy is harvested -an amazon culture that makes people break out in hives and has very weird visual effects (im convinced it has a new or uncommon active in it)
holy crap! that's an answer!
I never had a situation that a weak bruising mushoom was potent. Always the very blue ones (and usually slow-growing ones) were the most potent. In terms of trip - most of our shroom society say that a cube is a cube, so differences in visuals or even mood i would say - is because of the person that is taking them. Just because every cube has psilocin and psilocybin that are the active ingredients. Maybe baeocystin could be the one that makes the difference.
Also - on agar you can only determine the speed of growth, but that -lets call it substrain, can be weak, small or weak and smal or even wont pin - so wasting time on growing a monoculture that you never know if it is going to fruit is a pain in the ass. Thats why imo its better to start with MS (better if cleaned on agar) and just clone your good-looking fruit. I think you can save a lot of time.
on the other hand, if what you said is true, you have no possibilities to check the potency of just one mushroom (without using gc-ms or hplc). Taking clones from MS is again a lottery and a non-bruising shroom could be THAT ONE.
Im assuming that making brf cakes with monocultures selected from agar would be the best solution, coz it would not be time consuming as monotubs, you could put many cakes in one tub, wait and evaluate the potency of each just because you can harvest enough to go on a trip with every monoculture.
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: Selecting genetics and schedule for a perfect mushroom [Re: patapon333]
#27422967 - 08/10/21 04:49 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ive definitely seen highly potent stuff that doesnt bruise much
But ive never ever seen a cube culture that wouldnt fruit, and ive literally tested well over a thousand. Ive always heard people say its a possibility but never actually witnessed it. Cubes LOOOOVE to fruit, you really gotta do so much wrong to stop em
Also just because something is quick on agar doesnt mean itll fruit fast. Look at APE for instance. You really have to check all these factors independently
Cakes or tubs, just remember that a culture might do better in one vs the other. The main thing you want is standardization and a good sample size, so test at least 3 (ideally at least 10) tubs/cakes of each culture under identical conditions using identical materials
--------------------
  C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide "Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing." "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" ― Friedrich Nietzsche
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BSUUF2
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Re: Selecting genetics and schedule for a perfect mushroom [Re: c10h12n2o]
#27427188 - 08/13/21 06:50 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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I put spores on agar, then:
- poke -> go to PF puck - let PF puck grow out and fruit - grab invitro pin - rinse repeat - fruit cloned invitro cultures - select for yield, speed, potency, etc.
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