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possummagic_000
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Registered: 06/13/21
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Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect 1
#27412570 - 08/03/21 12:53 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hi,
When micro dosing, how long until you start experiencing full therapeutic effect?
Is it similar to taking something like methylphenidate where you experience the full therapeutic effect the day that you take it, or is it more like SSRIs where it can take weeks before you recognise a therapeutic effect?
If it is more like methylphenidate, if you don't recognise any therapeutic effect from a dose, is it indicative that your dose may need to be increased slightly?
Thank you!
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: possummagic_000]
#27412675 - 08/03/21 05:39 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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You will notice psychological effects of .1g within an hour most likely of taking it. You shouldn't noticed anything other than a slight change in mood and maybe less anxiety, depression, etc. And there shouldn't be many other effects beyond that. At a certain point, based on effectiveness, number of treatments, dose, and integration, the effects should have some sort of permanent relief. Depending on the frequency you may need to increase the dose, although I think this is still being debated/discovered. Just because the tolerance to these substances increases so quickly, doesn't necessarily mean the treatment isn't working, so just because someone can't get visuals when they eat an eighth two days in a row, doesn't mean that your brain won't still be trying to heal itself with psilocybin.
Idk about all those perscriptions.
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possummagic_000
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: QM33]
#27412684 - 08/03/21 05:58 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you for your response. Really appreciate your advice.
Ok, so it sounds like a dosage increase is warranted. I started with 1.7g of fresh mushroom, but did not notice any effect. According to an online mushroom calculator, this is commensurate with consuming .2g of dried mushroom. Incidentally, how accurate/reliable are online magic mushroom calculators?
Thanks again
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: possummagic_000]
#27412687 - 08/03/21 06:13 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ide say the one on here is okay. Read some trip reports, look on erowid even. You can always take more. Can't always take less
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
  Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes! No Pours (QuantomStyal)Magic Fruit Leather DMT for IandI
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: possummagic_000]
#27413441 - 08/03/21 07:21 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
possummagic_000 said: When micro dosing, how long until you start experiencing full therapeutic effect?
What kinda therapeutic effect are you looking for? Depression? Anxiety? Cluster headaches?
Quote:
Is it similar to taking something like methylphenidate where you experience the full therapeutic effect the day that you take it, or is it more like SSRIs where it can take weeks before you recognise a therapeutic effect?
It's not really like either of these because these are drugs and psilocin comes from a fungus. The reason I say that is because with say an SSRI, if you have a drug with a short half-life you can fuck with it so that the half-life is much longer. Then you give the person a smaller dose and let the half-life build up to therapeutic levels. This is so that you have a steady state in the blood plasma. You can't do this easily with psilocin. It has a very short half-life and if your intent is to use it like an anti-depressant you should probably dose multiple times a day.
Ritalin you actually don't want a steady state. You want the person to come down so they can sleep. So you formulate it to work for about 8 hours. But the base drug has a short enough half-life that it has to be fucked with to do this (extended release formulas).
Quote:
If it is more like methylphenidate, if you don't recognise any therapeutic effect from a dose, is it indicative that your dose may need to be increased slightly?
Thank you!
I'd look at trying to get to a steady state first. So rather than a bigger dose in the morning, try smaller doses throughout the day. Also when you take any sort of psychoactive drug to improve mood the effects build up over time environmentally too. Which is to say, if you're in a better mood your life will generally go smoother and get better. You'll form healthier relationships, feel better about yourself, etc. etc. It's not all in the short term dosing. And generally speaking, the therapeutic dose is probably less than you realize. As people tend to think they need more than they really do.
But, as far as dosing does go, unless you're using clones I'd suggest drying a larger known quantity, like an eighth, powdering it all up, mixing it, and taking .1g or less at a time, three times a day.
Because the potency of a random cube in can vary a lot. And the 1.7g fresh you didn't notice anything from today could easily be 1/4 as potent as the 1.7g fresh you eat tomorrow.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Rediscovered
Shift your perspective

Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 62
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: paperbackwriter]
#27413601 - 08/03/21 09:50 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would second the last part of the previous post. I've microdosed for a while & for me there was a reasonably quick noticeable change in mood, however that could've been more of a placebo thing.
But the bigger improvements seem to just flow & happen naturally. One day you'll think 'hey this weeks been pretty good'. I find it helps to every now & again look back & see if there were any times you acted differently than what you'd usually expect. My wife likes to journal it as it's easier for her to notice the changes.
Play around with different doses as well, there's not really a right or wrong answer for this (correct me if I'm wrong). On my days i take around .2 in the morning not super crushed up, as for me it seems to give a better effect. Where my wife takes up to .3 twice a day on her days.
I'd also definitely dry them if possible, there's plenty of teks on here if you've not got a dehumidifier. I remember the first batch I dried turned out to be only 6/7% dry weight
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: Rediscovered]
#27413629 - 08/03/21 10:34 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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If chasing absolute consistency and sub threshold doses drying and crushing you shrooms will be better for dosage purposes as it'll be the most consistent.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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possummagic_000
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/21
Posts: 26
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: paperbackwriter]
#27413768 - 08/04/21 04:52 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: What kinda therapeutic effect are you looking for? Depression? Anxiety? Cluster headaches?
Depression, anxiety, OCD, chronic migraine and ADHD. Chronic stress is a big issue. I am pretty sure that my HPA axis is chronically activated and I am starting to notice memory issues (not related to ADHD). I assume that my brain is being depleted of BDNF?? So anything that can help with building up my stress tolerance and also help with neurogenesis would be great. My ADHD is well managed with Concerta, and the OCD is well managed. I have not had any luck with any other medications, so now I am exploring alternatives. I haven't looked deeply into psilocybin research yet, so I didn't realise it can help with headaches. Is it only cluster headaches?
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:I'd look at trying to get to a steady state first. So rather than a bigger dose in the morning, try smaller doses throughout the day. Also when you take any sort of psychoactive drug to improve mood the effects build up over time environmentally too. Which is to say, if you're in a better mood your life will generally go smoother and get better. You'll form healthier relationships, feel better about yourself, etc. etc. It's not all in the short term dosing. And generally speaking, the therapeutic dose is probably less than you realize. As people tend to think they need more than they really do.
But, as far as dosing does go, unless you're using clones I'd suggest drying a larger known quantity, like an eighth, powdering it all up, mixing it, and taking .1g or less at a time, three times a day.
Because the potency of a random cube in can vary a lot. And the 1.7g fresh you didn't notice anything from today could easily be 1/4 as potent as the 1.7g fresh you eat tomorrow.
Thank you for the advice. really appreciate it. So taking 3 x small .1g doses a day long term isn't likely to see me build up tolerance in my system? I wouldn't have to follow some sort of protocol that involves days off?
I have ordered a dehydrator, so I will be able to dehydrate properly soon.
Thanks again!
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possummagic_000
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/21
Posts: 26
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: Rediscovered]
#27413769 - 08/04/21 04:54 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rediscovered said: I would second the last part of the previous post. I've microdosed for a while & for me there was a reasonably quick noticeable change in mood, however that could've been more of a placebo thing.
But the bigger improvements seem to just flow & happen naturally. One day you'll think 'hey this weeks been pretty good'. I find it helps to every now & again look back & see if there were any times you acted differently than what you'd usually expect. My wife likes to journal it as it's easier for her to notice the changes.
Play around with different doses as well, there's not really a right or wrong answer for this (correct me if I'm wrong). On my days i take around .2 in the morning not super crushed up, as for me it seems to give a better effect. Where my wife takes up to .3 twice a day on her days.
I'd also definitely dry them if possible, there's plenty of teks on here if you've not got a dehumidifier. I remember the first batch I dried turned out to be only 6/7% dry weight
Thanks for the tips!
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possummagic_000
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/21
Posts: 26
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: pineninja]
#27413770 - 08/04/21 04:55 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: If chasing absolute consistency and sub threshold doses drying and crushing you shrooms will be better for dosage purposes as it'll be the most consistent.
Thank you. Will do. Just waiting on delivery of a dehydrator.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: possummagic_000]
#27413798 - 08/04/21 06:28 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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You might like to try Lion's Mane too. It's helps our bodies make NGF (Nerve Growth Factor) which is a hormone that promotes the formation of neurons. NGF can't pass the blood brain barrier, so taking it as a raw supplement doesn't work. But Lion's Mane can help us make NGF in the brain, where we want it. I'd suggest ordering from these guys as they have the best quality at the best price point I've managed to find. Also free shipping and a price break if you buy the 300 capsule bottle (which is a 150 day supply).
As far as tolerance, I agree with the previous poster. I don't know that a rest day is needed as the tolerance build up from the typical psychedelic dose and a microdose will be much different. Plus, tolerance at different receptors is different and what we usually think of as mushroom tolerance is just one of many receptors where it has action (5ht2a) and that might not be the receptor that's really helpful with microdosing. We really don't know yet.
That said, I'd be hesitant personally to take a serotonin agonist with a short half-life everyday. Because if you miss a dose, you might end up with brain zaps (what the pharmacompanies call SSRI discontinuation syndrome, but every drug user recognizes as a form of withdrawal.)
Have you looked into non-microdoses? There's a lot of evidence that larger doses create lasting changes. If you are gentle with yourself, explore smaller doses but bigger than micro, put on some music that you generally find relaxing, and just let yourself be, I bet you'd get a lot out of it.
*fake edit* Forgot to answer your headache question. Yes, it should help with migraines too. I suffer from tension headaches and it helps. It's very closely related to sumatriptan, which is a non-active you're probably familiar with for migraines.
Edited by paperbackwriter (08/04/21 06:33 AM)
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possummagic_000
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: paperbackwriter]
#27413814 - 08/04/21 07:09 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: You might like to try Lion's Mane too. It's helps our bodies make NGF (Nerve Growth Factor) which is a hormone that promotes the formation of neurons. NGF can't pass the blood brain barrier, so taking it as a raw supplement doesn't work. But Lion's Mane can help us make NGF in the brain, where we want it. I'd suggest ordering from these guys as they have the best quality at the best price point I've managed to find. Also free shipping and a price break if you buy the 300 capsule bottle (which is a 150 day supply).
I was taking Lion's Mane for a bit, so I will get back into it.
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: That said, I'd be hesitant personally to take a serotonin agonist with a short half-life everyday. Because if you miss a dose, you might end up with brain zaps (what the pharmacompanies call SSRI discontinuation syndrome, but every drug user recognizes as a form of withdrawal.)
Have you looked into non-microdoses? There's a lot of evidence that larger doses create lasting changes. If you are gentle with yourself, explore smaller doses but bigger than micro, put on some music that you generally find relaxing, and just let yourself be, I bet you'd get a lot out of it.
Yes, I am considering larger doses, but I thought I would start with micro dosing first. I will definitely start with a small dose and then build from there.
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:*fake edit* Forgot to answer your headache question. Yes, it should help with migraines too. I suffer from tension headaches and it helps. It's very closely related to sumatriptan, which is a non-active you're probably familiar with for migraines.
I take way too much Sumatriptan (not enough to cause rebound headaches), so anything that can help me reduce my usage would be great. I've just started using CEFALY neuromodulation device and the damn thing actually works! Hopefully with the addition of mushrooms, I can ditch a whole heap of other migraine meds!
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Birdman7
Bird Person

Registered: 02/26/18
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: possummagic_000]
#27413895 - 08/04/21 08:43 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think you can see both short term and long term affects, some things like enhanced mood you'll feel the day of, but if you're trying to measure something like neurogenesis or improvement of chronic illnesses they take months/years to gain momentum. It really depends on your brain/body and what you're trying to achieve. Nonetheless I think keeping them in the rotation is good no matter what! I tell folks 0.15 4 days on 3 days off based on a few Paul Stamets interviews/articles.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: possummagic_000]
#27414197 - 08/04/21 12:42 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
possummagic_000 said: I was taking Lion's Mane for a bit, so I will get back into it.
Cool. Just be aware not all mushroom supplements are equal and that there's a lot of snake oil out there, some with some big names attached.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: paperbackwriter]
#27414202 - 08/04/21 12:46 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I get my mushroom powders from Bulk Supplements on Amazon and have no reason to doubt their fake. I'm sure they're from China but I feel like if you could trust anything from China it would be mushrooms... idk
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: QM33]
#27414205 - 08/04/21 12:52 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, I think the company I buy mine from is mostly having their stuff grown in China. I'm probably paying extra for the independent lab verification and all of that .
But basically be weary of products that are myceliated grain extracts. The B-Glucan profile has shown to be mostly grains and not active mushroom compounds.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: paperbackwriter]
#27414208 - 08/04/21 12:57 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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It says 100% sporocarp on the packaging. Got like a kilo of cordyceps for like 50$ and a pound of LM for 30, I like it and I definetly feel effects. I nearly need the LM to get what I'm considering a regular night's sleep anymore. And the cordyceps get me going like I drank a bunch of coffee ha. But I do love LM for the NGF, I think it's almost like a non hallucinagenic tryptamine.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: QM33]
#27414270 - 08/04/21 01:58 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, my stack these days is Lion's Mane, Chaga, and Cords.
I abuse my body in a lot of other ways that I'm trying to find some moderation with (overindulgence of caffeine and weed lately, recently I started experimenting with DXM and had to find my limits with that).
Which is to say it's hard to say how well the stack is working with all the shit I put in here. But I did my homework and I know these three do do shit. 
The Chaga was very noticeable when I first started it though. That I will say.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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possummagic_000
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/21
Posts: 26
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: Birdman7]
#27414361 - 08/04/21 02:56 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Birdman7 said: I think you can see both short term and long term affects, some things like enhanced mood you'll feel the day of, but if you're trying to measure something like neurogenesis or improvement of chronic illnesses they take months/years to gain momentum. It really depends on your brain/body and what you're trying to achieve. Nonetheless I think keeping them in the rotation is good no matter what! I tell folks 0.15 4 days on 3 days off based on a few Paul Stamets interviews/articles.
Thank you! I will also look into Paul Stamets.
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possummagic_000
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/21
Posts: 26
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Micro dosing and achieving a therapeutic effect [Re: paperbackwriter]
#27414365 - 08/04/21 02:58 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Yeah, I think the company I buy mine from is mostly having their stuff grown in China. I'm probably paying extra for the independent lab verification and all of that .
But basically be weary of products that are myceliated grain extracts. The B-Glucan profile has shown to be mostly grains and not active mushroom compounds.
This is all very helpful info!
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