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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request
    #26750100 - 06/16/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hey y'all!

I was working in the redwoods today and came across this mushroom. At first, I didn't think much of it, took a quick couple of pics then left it and kept moving, as I was working at the time. But the more I look at the pics I took, the more I wish I hung on to it. I did not get a spore print, but I do know how to get back to that spot if I wanted to.

There seems to be some definite bluing, unless my eyes deceive me.

It was growing out of a piece of wood that was covered in bryophytes. The habitat was on the border between an old growth and a second growth redwood forest.

What do y'all think?



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Invisibledoctorghosty
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Registered: 09/02/10
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: mind.at.large]
    #26750108 - 06/16/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Could those be the bluest Inocybe calamistrata ever??


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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: doctorghosty]
    #26750143 - 06/16/20 09:07 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hmm Inocybe. I didn't even think of that. Looking at an old post about Inocybe calamistrata, it may be that, but there doesn't seem to be much info on that species

Is that genus purely mycorrhizal, or are there saprobes in there as well? Like I mentioned, I didn't study it too much, but it seemed to be growing on dead wood. Plus, it was almost purely redwood with maybe a few sitka spruce here and there, so not many options for mycorrhizal trees.

I'll be working in the same area tomorrow and will have to poke around on a break and see what I can find


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Invisibledoctorghosty
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: mind.at.large]
    #26750157 - 06/16/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I don’t know the answers to any of those questions nor do I know if those are Inocybe. They don’t strike me as Psilocybe though. Maybe leptonia or entoloma even?

Very interesting whatever they are, I’ll be interested to hear what others say


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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: doctorghosty]
    #26750178 - 06/16/20 09:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

After comparing to my field guides, pics on the internet, and iNaturalist, I do think they are Inocybe calamistrata, due to the bluing and scaly stipe, but would love to know if anyone else has any ideas!

Thanks Doc! Great ID!


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Edited by mind.at.large (06/16/20 09:44 PM)


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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: mind.at.large]
    #26752790 - 06/17/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Anyone else got any ideas on what this could be?


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: doctorghosty]
    #26752800 - 06/17/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

doctorghosty said:
Could those be the bluest Inocybe calamistrata ever??



:whathesaid: That's what I see, based on the fibrous cap


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Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: Moria841]
    #26760694 - 06/20/20 09:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah that’s what it seems to be. Thanks y’all!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27393141 - 07/19/21 12:04 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mind.at.large said:
Anyone else got any ideas on what this could be?




Inosperma calamistratum group is correct - there's a few species with blue/green tones in the stem base.  They lack psilocybin and muscarine, so may even be edible.  If you notice red staining in the flesh when damaged consider Inosperma maximum, which is also seen on the west coast in conifer forests.

No matter how much you damage these, they don't turn any bluer.    All of the known Inocybaceae species that contain psilocybin are in Inocybe sensu stricto rather than Inosperma.  Inocybe sensu stricto contains mostly species with the toxin muscarine, but a few lack it, and a few have psilocybin.    The other genera split off from Inocybe appear to be mostly non-toxic.

For more information on the chemistry of this complex see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662758

For more information on why it's Inosperma now see https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00275514.2019.1668906?journalCode=umyc20

For more information on the psilocybin gene cluster in Inocybe sensu stricto see https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/374199v2


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Registered: 09/30/19
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27393459 - 07/19/21 09:29 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #27394208 - 07/19/21 06:35 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks again Alan for the wealth of knowledge that you are! I’ve got some reading to do tonight


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Endless Sub Tek


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InvisibleJuxter2020
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Registered: 11/28/19
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27395673 - 07/20/21 07:49 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Wait so your saying there is a mushroom that has dual effects of psilocybin and amanitas??? Just have to store them in sealed co2 for 2 months to convert that to the less toxic active component muscimol?

I've also seen a blue stem from a mushroom at a redwood forest someone had picked and was confused. That clears that up.


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Offlinethe man
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: Juxter2020]
    #27395695 - 07/20/21 08:08 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

he didnt say specifically there is 1 that has both rather the genera is known to contain both but dif species...  although through evolution some that lost mascarine gained psilocybin over time..


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: Juxter2020]
    #27397838 - 07/22/21 10:42 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Juxter2020 said:
Wait so your saying there is a mushroom that has dual effects of psilocybin and amanitas???





No.  There are no mushrooms that have psilocybin and other drugs or toxins.   

You may be confusing muscarine with muscimol - they are very different.


Quote:

Just have to store them in sealed co2 for 2 months to convert that to the less toxic active component muscimol?




I haven't seen any evidence that there are any fungi that would benefit from being stored sealed with CO2.


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27397867 - 07/22/21 11:06 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:

Quote:

Just have to store them in sealed co2 for 2 months to convert that to the less toxic active component muscimol?




I haven't seen any evidence that there are any fungi that would benefit from being stored sealed with CO2.



:ducklol:


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Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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InvisibleJuxter2020
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27399633 - 07/23/21 07:50 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Juxter2020 said:
Wait so your saying there is a mushroom that has dual effects of psilocybin and amanitas???





No.  There are no mushrooms that have psilocybin and other drugs or toxins.   

You may be confusing muscarine with muscimol - they are very different.


Quote:

Just have to store them in sealed co2 for 2 months to convert that to the less toxic active component muscimol?




I haven't seen any evidence that there are any fungi that would benefit from being stored sealed with CO2.





That's really good to hear because I've never done that only read that it converts the toxins to good stuff in amanitas. I usually just eat them after drying.


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Offlineambc
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Re: Bluing mushroom in the Redwood forest- ID request [Re: Juxter2020]
    #27399840 - 07/24/21 12:37 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Muscarine does not convert to muscimol, as Alan said.
Muscarine is a highly toxic compound that is only found in trace amounts in Amanita muscaria, but found in higher, even lethal concentrations in other species.
I know the name Amanita muscaria is a little confusing considering this, as far as I know the compound is named for the species, because it was first isolated from them.


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