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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Killing animals
    #2739713 - 05/28/04 01:01 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I find it interesting how everyone draws an arbitrary line when it comes to killing animals. Usually it is "morally" wrong to kill those animals who are closest to us, physically and emotionally.

Primates: bad - they are like cousins.

Dogs, cats, hamsters, parrots: bad - they are part of our adopted family when used as pets.

Deer, bunnies and seal pups: bad - they are soooOOOOooo cute.

Cows: OK - they are stupid and contribute little except as a food source.

Tigers, bears, lions: Good or bad - depends on what point in time and where you live. If they are threatening your village or they are in a zoo and on the endangered list, then may be immoral.

Mosquitoes, ants, cockroaches: good - not only acceptable, but recommended.

Bacteria, viruses: good - they generally cause problems and don't fit into our plans.


Conclusion: anything that adds to our happiness and well-being is wrong to kill; otherwise it is OK. Remember, it is all about us and our needs, not about any real ethics.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Registered: 01/15/03
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Swami]
    #2739820 - 05/28/04 01:18 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

good point about how society is very hypocritical and fucked up... I agree with you and am trying to change my beliefs to killing ANYTHING out of selfish intrest is bad... it is hard because up until now, 17 years have told me 'eat hamburgers' but just now I am realizing man PROBALLY used to live only off nuts/roots/plants, ect, and that you can survive off just thatm, and that I do not really need meat. That said, I am finding myself struggling and always falling back on chicken and beef! oh well, it is a battle to be life fought... anyone got some advice for me?

edit : forgot to put I infront of agree


Edited by 2Experimental (05/28/04 01:19 AM)


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Killing animals [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2739919 - 05/28/04 01:43 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

>but just now I am realizing man PROBALLY used to live only off nuts/roots/plants, ect
-Probably not, judging by our teeth. We are omnivours, we can eat both... but it doesn't mean we HAVE to eat both.

>anyone got some advice for me?
-Become a vegatarian, or even a vegan. I tried that for a few years, and it was hard at first... just make it known of your intentions. After people accept it, it becomes much easier. Plus, there are many places that cater to your interests. And today, it's something that is considered hip in alot of groups. It's also a good conversation topic... as long as you don't turn it into OMG, YOU EAT MEAT YOU MURDERS I HATE YOU.  :thumbup:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Swami]
    #2739925 - 05/28/04 01:44 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

When I was a teen-ager, my parents bought enough land that we were able to grow a bull, a cow, some chickens, and some geese.  Oh, we had a few horses. 

The bull and cow were grown for food.  We couldn't name them because we knew if we did, we couldn't shoot them.  If we couldn't shoot them, we couldn't eat them.

So, the moral of this story is....don't name your food.

:grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Frog]
    #2739959 - 05/28/04 01:51 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

W"e couldn't name them because we knew if we did, we couldn't shoot them"

that is a funny example!! ya, my grandparents used to have a hogg... I used to feed it watermelon rinds and other scraps..when it came time to make bacon I was so sad..!! needless to say that was one of my first childhood experiences with death and killing animals for food and it has partly shaped my veiws.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Frog]
    #2739967 - 05/28/04 01:53 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

We couldn't name them because we knew if we did, we couldn't eat them.

Don't tell me your real name.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Killing animals [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2739973 - 05/28/04 01:54 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Deer


Ive eatern many a freshly killed deer (sausage) in my day, very tasty. I have no problems with killing and eating a deer. Yummy.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Swami]
    #2740154 - 05/28/04 02:42 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Life feeds on life.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Swami]
    #2740228 - 05/28/04 03:15 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Ethics would be rasing the animlas right.(no chemicals , bad food, or harsh conditions)

Which could satisfy our needs , while not acting so ignorant.

Better meat for the person eating it, better enviroment for us to live in , and lastly but still important, a fair and decent treatment of our....."food" before it becomes just that.....food.

I think hardcore meat eaters AND vegans both have it wrong(although the vegans might live longer) there is a fair ETHICAL median which we "COULD" all eat from.

Lets hear it for organic meat producers! YAy !


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Sclorch]
    #2740289 - 05/28/04 03:43 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

does not mean it is 'right'






























OR DOES IT ?!


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Invisibletruekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
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Re: Killing animals [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2740322 - 05/28/04 04:14 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

eh. eating meat and shit isnt' going to add to my happiness any in the long term, so i'm all for keeping the happy cows and other cuddlies alive.

however, when it comes to biting insects, poisonous plants, vermin that spread disease, anything that encroaches on my space (especially other poeples dogs) i say bring out the genetically engineered super killing viruses. pretty much if an animal goes out of its way to be annoying it deserves to be killed, its just poor evolutionary sense to go around ticking off humans. anything that wants to live peacefully with us should become a little cleaner, a little more chill, a little neater looking and should learn good manners.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Swami]
    #2740420 - 05/28/04 05:31 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It's also bad to kill plants


"Angel of the lord," I begged "What are these tortured screams


"Those Reverend Maynard, are

The cries of the carrots

The cries of the carrots


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Swami]
    #2740892 - 05/28/04 11:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I was thinking about that yesterday when I saw a dead cat on the side of the road (roadkill probably). At first I was a little upset to see it, then I thought how is it different than any of the squirrels or woodchucks that get run over in my area? Besides of course the fact that it could be someone's pet, although that wasn't the reason why I was upset, I was upset because it was a "cute" animal.


It seems that what animals are "right" and "wrong" to kill is cultural. I'm sure someone who is Hindu would be taken aback by our killing of cows. So where is the division between the death of life ok? One could argue that plants, bacertia, and viruses are alive, so isn't it bad that we kill them? I really don't have any answers as to where the line is to drawn.


Clearly if any of these things completely died off, all life would be fucked, and if we didn't kill anything at all, we'd all be fucked. I don't know if there is any definitive answer.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflineNickatina
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Swami]
    #2741581 - 05/28/04 03:08 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I personally feel the only reason to kill animals is for food..I fuckin hate how people kill for sport..Like its real hard to kill a deer..I come close to killing one everyday with my car cause they're so many just standing in the middle of the streets. I also feel that slaughterhouses are really fucked up..sometimes at slaughterhouses they just take a cow and slice its neck and leave it there hanging and bleeding to death..pretty inhummane from my view point.


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"Make the most of the hemp seed, Sow it everywhere" -George Washington


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Nickatina]
    #2741662 - 05/28/04 03:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Just to play devil's advocate, sometimes deer hunters DO a positive service if there is an over-population of deer. It is a problem in my area, so in that sense it might not be so bad (as I know anyway, but perhaps it's just a rebuttle for hunters to use).


Now those hunting grounds where the deer are basically just fodder for killing, that's rather cruel. And I've often thought it's cruel the way slaughterhouses operate, but I really don't know enough about them to say.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Twirling]
    #2741939 - 05/28/04 05:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Twirling said:
Just to play devil's advocate, sometimes deer hunters DO a positive service if there is an over-population of deer. It is a problem in my area, so in that sense it might not be so bad (as I know anyway, but perhaps it's just a rebuttle for hunters to use).


Now those hunting grounds where the deer are basically just fodder for killing, that's rather cruel. And I've often thought it's cruel the way slaughterhouses operate, but I really don't know enough about them to say.




WHAT ABOUT THE HUMAN OVERPOPULATION HUH?!


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Swami]
    #2741951 - 05/28/04 05:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

To be honest, I never purposely kill living things. I realize however that my eating of previously living things contributes to their death, and for this reason I am considering vegetarianism focusing on growing my plants, and eating little enough so they can survive.

It's not that there's anything concisivly wrong with killing for necessity. However, we can survive without killing animals, and we have the conscious choice not to, so I figure I might as well. I realize everything dies, except for the universe itself, and therefore evening killing animals is just consciously altering the interacting energy of everything. But I just figure that since I wouldn't want to be killed by some predator, I might as well not be hypocritical.

As for you saying that people are biased as to which animals are acceptable to kill, this is very true. It also seems like generally the larger the animal, the worse it is. I don't personally feel this way, but so many people seem to.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
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Re: Killing animals [Re: deff]
    #2741961 - 05/28/04 05:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

i am an omnivore. notice my teeth. the only problem now is there are too many stupid humans.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Killing animals [Re: BleaK]
    #2742112 - 05/28/04 05:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
Quote:

WHAT ABOUT THE HUMAN OVERPOPULATION HUH?!





I suggest a removal of warning labels, since they basically remove us from natural selection. 2 problems solved with one solution.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
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Re: Killing animals [Re: Twirling]
    #2742120 - 05/28/04 06:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Twirling said:
Quote:

BleaK said:
Quote:

WHAT ABOUT THE HUMAN OVERPOPULATION HUH?!





I suggest a removal of warning labels, since they basically remove us from natural selection. 2 problems solved with one solution.




great idea.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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