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TheMagicConch
MC



Registered: 09/11/20
Posts: 841
Loc: Over here
Last seen: 6 months, 7 days
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: multifractal]
#27430813 - 08/16/21 07:54 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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My apologies of this doesn't technically have to do with the life cycle, but I thought this may be relevant since this is something we see all the time in cultivation.
I just read in "The Growing Fungus": "In higher fungi, the spread of damage from one compartment to others can be prevented by the prompt blocking of septal pores. This can occur either through the occlusion of pores by protoplasmic inclusions such as crystals or by the rapid synthesis of pore plugs."
Do any of you think this is why blueing occurs on active species? If I'm understanding this right, the actives are using the psilocin crystal as a protoplasmic inclusion as a response to damage (touching the mushroom or mycelium with your fingers etc) and since that's being exposed to oxygen (being on the outer surface) it oxidizes and turns blue?
Not sure if that's accurate, but thought it was intriguing
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,843
Loc: Canada
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: TheMagicConch]
#27430827 - 08/16/21 08:00 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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This question is definitely on point in this thread, I'll wait for others to answer this however. I don't know enough to respond further.
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TheMagicConch
MC



Registered: 09/11/20
Posts: 841
Loc: Over here
Last seen: 6 months, 7 days
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#27430835 - 08/16/21 08:04 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Good to hear. Didn't want to take this in a different direction than you intended
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,843
Loc: Canada
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: TheMagicConch]
#27430839 - 08/16/21 08:07 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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That is a great book, definitely worth reading. Bod definitely hooked us up with that link, it's quite expensive to purchase.
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TheMagicConch
MC



Registered: 09/11/20
Posts: 841
Loc: Over here
Last seen: 6 months, 7 days
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27430879 - 08/16/21 08:51 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah for sure. I saw him mention it and actually found it on another website I use for books, in case anyone reading this thread is interested here's a link to it https://1lib.us/
They have other great mycology titles on that website as well. The link from bod looks like a very similar website so it'd probably have the same titles anyways, but just in case.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,843
Loc: Canada
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: TheMagicConch]
#27529224 - 11/03/21 07:17 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post here for life cycle debate, let's keep the potd thread clear, I recommen reading from the beginning and understanding the principles and terminology before posting.
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multifractal
Student


Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,019
Loc: Cumtown
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: TheMagicConch]
#27530719 - 11/04/21 11:59 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheMagicConch said: My apologies of this doesn't technically have to do with the life cycle, but I thought this may be relevant since this is something we see all the time in cultivation.
I just read in "The Growing Fungus": "In higher fungi, the spread of damage from one compartment to others can be prevented by the prompt blocking of septal pores. This can occur either through the occlusion of pores by protoplasmic inclusions such as crystals or by the rapid synthesis of pore plugs."
Do any of you think this is why blueing occurs on active species? If I'm understanding this right, the actives are using the psilocin crystal as a protoplasmic inclusion as a response to damage (touching the mushroom or mycelium with your fingers etc) and since that's being exposed to oxygen (being on the outer surface) it oxidizes and turns blue?
Not sure if that's accurate, but thought it was intriguing
Psilocin is in solution in the intracellular fluid and not found in significant quantities as a crystal in living tissue. Bruising occurs as cells rupture exposing psilocin to oxygen causing it to oxidize to a blue/green pigment. Its hypothesized that psilocin production might have evolved as a mechanism to store house nitrogen/other building blocks and might also have proved useful as a pest deterrent of sorts but I've never read that its breakdown specifically serves any purpose ie cell damage reduction or something.
Edited by multifractal (11/05/21 12:28 AM)
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,843
Loc: Canada
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: multifractal]
#27531090 - 11/05/21 09:20 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't think that this mentioned bruising but very interesting nonetheless:
Horizontal gene cluster transfer increased hallucinogenic mushroom diversity
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/evl3.42
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Brock one
Stranger


Registered: 11/24/21
Posts: 9
Loc: Uk
Last seen: 6 months, 11 days
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27557023 - 11/25/21 01:21 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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So breeding mushrooms isn't to dislike breeding plants? I don't get how breeding a pheno work's in mushroom breeding. I kinda get it but dont understand spores versus pollen just yet. Pheno is just a single individual set of genes from a genome in plants. But thats why I am here to learn these things so I better get some reading and researching done I guess Nice thread by the way Full Retarded. I have only breed plants in the past. Tissue culture ect. Got a bit of a reputation for breeding cannabis on online forums at a point. I Come here to learn more about growing shrooms to treat my mental health but its a interesting thing this mushroom growing.
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JustAPerson
Stranger


Registered: 01/23/21
Posts: 22
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: multifractal]
#27557322 - 11/25/21 08:35 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
multifractal said:
Quote:
TheMagicConch said: My apologies of this doesn't technically have to do with the life cycle, but I thought this may be relevant since this is something we see all the time in cultivation.
I just read in "The Growing Fungus": "In higher fungi, the spread of damage from one compartment to others can be prevented by the prompt blocking of septal pores. This can occur either through the occlusion of pores by protoplasmic inclusions such as crystals or by the rapid synthesis of pore plugs."
Do any of you think this is why blueing occurs on active species? If I'm understanding this right, the actives are using the psilocin crystal as a protoplasmic inclusion as a response to damage (touching the mushroom or mycelium with your fingers etc) and since that's being exposed to oxygen (being on the outer surface) it oxidizes and turns blue?
Not sure if that's accurate, but thought it was intriguing
Psilocin is in solution in the intracellular fluid and not found in significant quantities as a crystal in living tissue. Bruising occurs as cells rupture exposing psilocin to oxygen causing it to oxidize to a blue/green pigment. Its hypothesized that psilocin production might have evolved as a mechanism to store house nitrogen/other building blocks and might also have proved useful as a pest deterrent of sorts but I've never read that its breakdown specifically serves any purpose ie cell damage reduction or something.
Yup. Here is the chemistry of the blueing. Science
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,843
Loc: Canada
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: Brock one]
#27557459 - 11/25/21 10:18 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brock one said: So breeding mushrooms isn't to dislike breeding plants?
Breeding/stabilization is somewhat simple:
Select for desired trait(s)(Clone)/grow out clone, collect spores from that grow then grow out next generation; clone again then grow out, collect spores and so on until you have what youre looking for.
That's the basic idea.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,843
Loc: Canada
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28125398 - 01/05/23 07:54 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said: I've actually just sent of an email to one of the PhD mycology professors there, hopefully I'll receive a reply.
My message reads:
My question(s) to you, if you're willing to answer, are:
Do Basidiamycota form hyphal knots from rhizomorphs symphogenously, or are they meristogenous.
I never did receive a response from that mycologist, but an AI chat bot had no issues answering this question.
There were a few more sent to that mycologist which I wall ask the chat bot after morning coffee.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,843
Loc: Canada
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28125467 - 01/05/23 09:01 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said: 2 haploid basidiospore germinate to form monokaryotic hyphae, if compatable they fuse by anastomosis, plasmogamy fuses protoplasts and become binucleate/dikaryotic, dikaryotic hypha fuse via clamp connection to other monokaryotic hypha forming rhizomorphs, rhizomorphs produce basidiocarp containing many individual dikaryotic strains.
Is this correct?
We will see what he has to say on the matter, if anything.

Great answers. AI is such a great resource for Q&A.
Jesus, this thing is awesome:
Quote:
p9hu7 said: Just had a thought:
Basidaia are formed at the tip of dikaryotic hyphae, each basidia forms 4 spores. If you could get a decent estimate of how many spores were contained in a print you could divide that number by four and you'd have a rough estimate of how many dikaryotic hyphae made up that fruit.
I would suspect that other features of the basidiocarp that are also made from compact mycelium, like the gills, must be mycelium that either hasn't successfully mated (successfully mating is required before hyphae can fruit), or do not carry the genes to form basidia, but perhaps the hyphae form all of these features with basidia simply manifesting at the tip.
Either way it's about as close to an estimate as you're likely to achieve, with that number being the minimum presence of dikaryotic hyphae.
Does anyone see any issues with this reasoning?

Edited by Stipe-n Cap (01/05/23 09:25 AM)
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fungusul
Fungus Kingdom


Registered: 07/16/20
Posts: 1,065
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Re: Basidiomycetes life cycle discussions: karyogamy, meiosis, anastomosis, etc [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28126346 - 01/05/23 06:31 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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