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fahtster
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: Josex]
#27386213 - 07/13/21 05:10 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Shit… we’re talking 15+ years ago I could lie to you and say I remember exactly how long but I don’t.. I just know that it took longer than grain when I didn’t soak. Tbh though, im betting yours don’t work (just a feeling) but I think a few days is too early to call it. I’d say let it go for at least a couple weeks even if they don’t show growth to see if you get bad bacteria.
Faht
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Josex
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: verum subsequentis]
#27386232 - 07/13/21 05:21 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: Fagt is correct. I wasn't talking to you. T'sal good in the hood.
Oh I hope that was a typo! 
Sorry man, read too fast, it's hot as fuck here and my brain is getting fried.
Faht, not long ago I was fucking around with soaking for 2 days, never encountered this issue I'm having right now. With these it was just one day more, so I def wasn't expecting this. I also have a feeling the LC won't recover at all but will def let it go the distance to see what'll do. I'm a little bummed out by this because it kinda ruins the experiment/test.
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BrownBear
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: Josex]
#27386244 - 07/13/21 05:29 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Perhaps I have mislead myself somehow but I thought that you and p9 were running similar grain tests to determine whether endospores can and will survive a standard pc run? The only way to come to any real conclusion would be to put sterilized grain under a microscope after given enough time for the endospores to propagate, if there are any to propagate. Am I wrong?
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Stipe-n Cap


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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: BrownBear]
#27386291 - 07/13/21 05:55 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not sure if it's exactly the same, also, you shouldn't need a scope. If there is bacteria present you should be able to add those grains to a dish to culture the bacteria enough to be visible.
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BrownBear
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27386304 - 07/13/21 06:02 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is the grain kernel to agar what both you and josex plan to use to come to a conclusion?
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Stipe-n Cap


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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: BrownBear]
#27386309 - 07/13/21 06:04 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's what I'm doing for sure, I'll have to re-read the OP to confirm what Josex is up to.
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BrownBear
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27386342 - 07/13/21 06:14 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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If endospores do survive a standard pc cycle would you suspect that some would survive on all grain kernels or perhaps only on a few grain kernels? I know you don't believe any survive but perhaps only taking a random few kernels from the top of the jar would not be efficient enough to draw any solid conclusions. Do you plan on transfering kernels from all sides of the jars; top, bottom, side, middle, etc.?
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Josex
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: BrownBear]
#27386368 - 07/13/21 06:27 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Iambrownbear said: Perhaps I have mislead myself somehow but I thought that you and p9 were running similar grain tests to determine whether endospores can and will survive a standard pc run? The only way to come to any real conclusion would be to put sterilized grain under a microscope after given enough time for the endospores to propagate, if there are any to propagate. Am I wrong?
Yea I hear ya, let me explain. I know I've been very vocal about surviving endospores but the honest truth is that I'm not sure/can't be sure.
The reason I want to focus on preps and their results is because the only thing that I can be completely sure about is that I've seen in my own experience very clearly that different preps can make a world of a difference on how clean the spawn will look and how it'll actually perform.
I have many examples of this that I can remember but will never forget that time where I did two different preps using the same grain, sterilizing in the same cycle and using the same LC and see with my own eyes one turning bacterial on me and the spawn from the other prep doing fine. I could be writing examples like this all night, clearcut cases of bacteria where it became pretty obvious that it could not have originated from inoculant or technique.
Another reason why I'm focusing on preps for this tread is because I know (spoiler alert) that the control jars won't do squat, nada... not even the ones that were wetted with sterile broth, not even if you were to incubate them at warm temp. Ime the bacteria I'm talking about shows up when the spawn is more than half way colonized, which is what leads me to believe that the conditions the live colony creates in the jar could be ideal for these "purportedly" surviving endospores to recover and activate. Again, purportedly. Because I have really no way to know for sure beyond what I can see with my own eyes.
LC also happens to be a truly "honest to God" kind of inoculant, it really is clean or it's not and if it's not it lets you know pretty fast and furious, so I def can't blame the inoculant if I'm seeing funk in my jars when they are more than 70% colonized. Nor would I blame my technique because my methods are such that there's no technique really needed. I crack a lid for a fraction of a second and quickly squirt LC through a flamed needle. Hell I don't even open the lid of my LC vessels to inoculate them and I noc them with tiny biopsies. Swear to god I could count the bad LC's I've had since I started with one hand. I'ma aware this won't mean much to nobody, it's only words and the only one that is sure about them is me, which makes all this argument a bit pointless and useless to back up my claims.
Edited by Josex (07/14/21 08:44 AM)
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Stipe-n Cap


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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: BrownBear]
#27386382 - 07/13/21 06:35 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Because if endospores survive and pose a contamination risk this implies that they reactivate as vegetative bacteria, if you have bacteria it will bloom and cover every grain present in your jar, not just random grains.
We can talk about this in my thread if you like, I don't want to hijack Josex's thread.
My apologies josex.
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Josex
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27386393 - 07/13/21 06:43 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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No problem man, go forth and speak yer truth here, that's no highjacking. I promise I won't get mad at you for having a different opinion, we all nerds here.
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Stipe-n Cap


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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: Josex]
#27386397 - 07/13/21 06:45 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lol, true that
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fahtster
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: Josex] 2
#27386432 - 07/13/21 07:03 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said:
Quote:
verum subsequentis said: Fagt is correct. I wasn't talking to you. T'sal good in the hood.
Oh I hope that was a typo! 
Oh he meant to do it.. it was a typo that I made in a post like a year ago and it excited the 12 year old in Verum so much he jumps at the chance to use it whenever he can
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BrownBear
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27386434 - 07/13/21 07:06 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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First, I want to thank you both for taking the time to run these tests. I believe it is important that we as a community keep pushing the boundaries of what we think we know. I am of the belief that if you are not progressing forward than you are moving backwards because nothing ever stands still.
With that said, I think you both are on the right track and I like both approaches for different reasons. Do not take offence to this but I am not completely convinced that either approach is going to satisfy the thoroughness that I wanted to see when you both began these threads.
I have a few ideas in mind and also would like to borrow some ideas from the both of you. I cannot begin this week or the next due to being out of town but beginning on the 26th, I am going to write up my own thread and begin running my own tests.
Hopefully, with different approaches run by multiple cult enthusiasts, like ourselves, we can at least draw some common conclusions that we can all learn and benefit from.
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Stipe-n Cap


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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: BrownBear]
#27386447 - 07/13/21 07:15 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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None of us are in possession of the complete picture so the more we probe, the better. We're putting our own pieces of the puzzle in their spots as far as I'm concerned, and who better to do it than all of us...(maybe a real lab but those pussies don't have the balls to break the law for science)
Looking forward to seeing that thread Bear.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (07/13/21 08:03 PM)
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#27386554 - 07/13/21 08:27 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Indeed.
Quote:
it excited the 12 year old in Verum
It's true. I do believe I've only done it once or twice though.
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fahtster
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: verum subsequentis]
#27386571 - 07/13/21 08:57 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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That’s fair.
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Nimpo
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: verum subsequentis]
#27386573 - 07/13/21 08:58 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Josex
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: fahtster]
#27386835 - 07/14/21 05:55 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Standard prep:
Quote:
7/14
48 hours after the initial shake, looking healthy in my opinion. Jars got shook!
 
Hard prep:
Quote:
7/14
48 hours after the initial shake, looking healthy in my opinion although a little behind of the boiled spawn. Jars got shook!
 
Quote:
fahtster said:
Quote:
Josex said:
Quote:
verum subsequentis said: Fagt is correct. I wasn't talking to you. T'sal good in the hood.
Oh I hope that was a typo! 
Oh he meant to do it.. it was a typo that I made in a post like a year ago and it excited the 12 year old in Verum so much he jumps at the chance to use it whenever he can 
Yeah dude, fucking Verum. He's always so naughty!
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gone-pear-shaped
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: Josex]
#27388192 - 07/15/21 02:10 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I guess there's another lesson in this about experiments. To get a clear result, there are two alternative methods: get a strong result (few samples needed), or get a lot of samples (will still show a clear result even if the effect is small). Josex aimed for the first approach by using a grain prep he hypothesized was very very bad--an exemplar of bad grain prep--but the exemplar was too extreme, so nothing grew in it.
In my mind, if Josex had done a 1 day soak, the effect might have been small: the rate of contams might be only slightly changed. So to see the effect more clearly, he would have had to use more jars. That would be a lot of extra work and some extra expense. And the effect might not even have been observable.
I don't mean to judge. Josex made the right decision about experimental design, but if this is done again in the future, the experimenter will know he needs to go with more volume to see a clear result, rather than extremely bad grain prep.
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Josex
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Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
#27388196 - 07/15/21 02:23 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yea I can agree. At this point and seeing how things are developing, I don't think we will get the results I was expecting. It looks like this'll turn into a fun growlog and we're not going to get anything from it but a couple of tubs worth of shrooms. I truly suck at doing "experiements".
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