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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Growth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27376535 - 07/06/21 03:35 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
seafood allergy
fungus allergy (not me - shroomie)
sunflower seed allergy
peanut and legume allergy including all soy and all soy lecithin etc.
chicken allergy probably because chicken feed has sunflower or soy





Wow. My wife is allergic to gluten, allergic to dairy, can't eat anything remotely spicy, refuses to eat anything with sugar, and we eat kosher. I feel your pain brothah.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27376825 - 07/06/21 07:20 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

shomair shabbos?


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Growth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27378126 - 07/07/21 07:17 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I DON'T ROLL on Saturday, Donny!

Yeah I've always been supportive of my wife's holidays and such. She didn't mind in the past when I would work on shabbat or eat pulled pork BBQ. After I found out my maternal grandmother's mom's mother was Jewish, she started gradually (see illustration). I thought I was 1/32 Jewish, but I guess that's not how it works.



--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


Edited by Moses_Davidson (07/07/21 09:25 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27378162 - 07/07/21 07:39 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I lapsed at age 14


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Growth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27378352 - 07/07/21 09:46 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Information increase since the beginning first thing which has been expanding at the rate of one plankc length per instant..

Senses need to be enhanced in order to reach this level..

Your brain holds and stores more and more information as you live through the instants, days.. weeks etc..


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Growth [Re: 2sky]
    #27378441 - 07/07/21 11:57 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

How long is a piece of string?


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Growth [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27378465 - 07/08/21 12:23 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Counted by the number of particles..

Or points..connected to each other

5cm..

Are points particles? I don't know..


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Growth [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27378608 - 07/08/21 04:48 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Planck Length
The smallest possible size for anything in the universe is the Planck Length, which is 1.6 x10-35 m across


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Growth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27379061 - 07/08/21 11:45 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Well I find quantum physics to be a little interesting.
 

If an extra-terrestrial visited primitive humans long ago and wanted to give us instructions to cause as much population growth as possible, and to ensure that these rules would be followed for all time... the following would have worked pretty well:

1. Wash your hands before you eat.
2. Don't touch bodily secretions, dead bodies, or sick people.
3. Don't eat unfamiliar foods and things that eat detritus.
4. Take baths.
5. Work all the time, be productive, but rest once in a while.
6. Learn to store up and be prepared for famines.
7. Pair up, raise your kids together. Teach them the rules.
8. Take care of orphans & travelers. Don't kill your kids (unless they have no regard for the rules).
9. Don't kill people.
10. Do what your parents say (especially following these rules).
11. Don't blow your wad on your wife when she's in the red. Wait 'til you could have a good chance of knocking her up.
12. Men, pair up with women so you can make babies.
13. If you hang out on your roof, put up a railing.
14. If you touch someone else who has been into someone else's bodily secretions, touched dead bodies, or sick people,... then go wash up.

and on and on...

It seems to me that most of the Torah looks like it was designed to make people live a long time and make as many surviving offspring as possible.

All those rules about washing your hands before you eat, and staying away from the bodily fluids of other people, dead things, sick people, taking baths, sounds like germ control.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27379067 - 07/08/21 11:50 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

So maybe this is why in our Western society we have so many hangups about population control.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27379214 - 07/08/21 01:31 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

so many hangups about everything.
but here we are to wonder about how we got here!


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Growth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27380093 - 07/09/21 04:52 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Meaningless banter>?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Growth [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27380120 - 07/09/21 05:34 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

or that too


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Growth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27380153 - 07/09/21 07:04 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

One could argue that nearly everything in philosophy is meaningless.

This thread for sure. Whether we follow rules that seem to increase population growth or whether we are very committed to doing everything in our power to prevent it, it seems such a daunting prospect that any discussion of population growth could be meaningless banter.

...

Well, I suppose if we were serious about population control we could try to educate young people reading this about the financial benefits of having fewer kids.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 37,530
Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27380173 - 07/09/21 07:34 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

we're just not nice niche creatures
socially we occupy all and any niches, whether favourable or hostile.
even deserts and now the ocean.

niche creatures can be wiped out if their ecology is threatened

but by being aggressive in commanding all niches we could destroy the entire ecosphere.


if we are less aggressive in growth - balanced against deaths, then we will be ok, but capitalism may need a transfusion or transformation


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Growth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27382575 - 07/10/21 10:37 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

An overhaul for capitalism could be the best or worst thing for us.

I have some crazy ("this guy must do psychedelics") ideas about how we could do that.

For a company to become publicly traded, there is a very high barrier to entry. Corporations must surmount the Sarbanes Oxley requirements and have two auditing firms, and hire overpaid big snotty law firms to perform 2,000 hours worth of tedium that nobody will really read anyways. Its such a high barrier to entry, that very, very few companies can actually get there. When they do, they are extorted by investment banking firms and vulture capital investors, and they end having to sacrifice up to 60% of their equity just for the right to be able to trade (sell) their stock.

If we create a new class of corporation which is exempt from Sarbanes-Oxley requirements, and can become publicly traded with a simple audit and giving 30% of the outstanding shares of stock to the government, then the government can start to take over and endorse those companies that belong to "we the people." Then the government could implement a rule that nobody can short the state-owned corporations unless they are trading at a price/earning ratio of over 100. This would jack their share prices up so high that everyone who bought them would be in for a rocket ride. The principals of the corporations would want to sign up because its less work and more profit, and it could result in trillions of dollars in value for the government.

That would allow people to still have some motivation for growth.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27382747 - 07/11/21 04:28 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I am all for growth in the sense of transformation; the concentration of wealth, however, is not really growth, it is an abscess, and the increase of domestic product and population is not attractive or sustainable, it is a disease.

individual growth is reasonable - individuals pass on and new ones are born.
the increase of the number of individuals which is tied to growth, is problematic.

we should instead aim for health and sustainability, and take responsibility for the impact of our growth. This is not part of corporate culture to the best of my understanding: they practice externalization (of responsibility), and government, as it is now, is not well positioned, or empowered to alter that.

We may need something like Facebook going rogue making the changes that get under our skin and then reshape other businesses and government. So far we are too scattered, picking up the pieces of global warming, racial inequality, conspiracy, and stupidity.

Facebook is probably in the best position to restructure humanity than any other single entity. (I haven't been on it for years)


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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27382786 - 07/11/21 05:59 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Trickle down economics still hasn't worked, the bottom is lucky to get a single drop.

Health is universal healthcare, solving future medical debts and reducing $8000 a year in insurance premiums to $2000 in extra tax.

Corporations are considered people and are allowed to 'donate' to political campaigns in legalised bribery. A 25th amendment to overturn citizens United is about the only way to curb or at least start to halt the rampant corruption of quid pro quo arrangements blatantly about.

Name an American politician and I'll find their bribes, and potentially the consequences.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Growth [Re: sudly]
    #27382873 - 07/11/21 09:05 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I am all for growth in the sense of transformation; the concentration of wealth, however, is not really growth, it is an abscess




Quote:

sudly said:
Health is universal healthcare, solving future medical debts and reducing $8000 a year in insurance premiums to $2000 in extra tax.





Corporations can be used to pay for universal healthcare. If we tax them 30%, we are subsidizing their exit to go somewhere cheaper (exempli grati, Amazon, Google, Bank of America et alli on and on and on, we don't get any taxes from those American corporations, neither does anyone else). However if they voluntarily give us 30% of their entire enterprise in leu of that on-going tax, allowing them to bypass the thugs at the doors of Wall Street, then contributing to society becomes the path of least resistance. Why fight them? Harness them.


Quote:

sudly said:
A 25th amendment to overturn citizens United is about the only way to curb or at least start to halt the rampant corruption of quid pro quo arrangements blatantly about.

Name an American politician and I'll find their bribes, and potentially the consequences.




Very needed indeed.

I think Socrates would have said those are some of the problems with democracy in general. Pure democracy is little more than weighted mob rule. To fix that problem we would have to revolutionize democracy too. I think something like that would be a long, long ways away. Maybe I'm jaded, but I just don't think a group of said politicians would vote to create something to take power away from the groups that placed them in power. I think we are stuck with corruption.

Who knows... maybe after some great unforeseen catastrophe and the demise of the USA, the next government will be run by algorithms that will read the wishes of each individual and then calculate the best political decisions to achieve the aggregated will of the masses... like the apparent consensus of how a bee hive looks when it swarms and moves to a new location.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27383229 - 07/11/21 02:47 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

yeah algorithms, but they have to be implemented in such a way that they can be revised, by deliberation and authorized approval.

The future of governance will be a plastic system/automation that can be reformed/edited by qualified authorities (techies) under the supervision of a qualified political body (candidates must at least understand Robert's Rules of Order, and be able to attend and conduct meetings), legally answerable to the courts and to the people.


--------------------
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